18th Century Stem and Stern Construction

[tmj]

 Not being an 18th century ship builder, nor a forestry expert, this initial draft represents my first attempt at designing the stem and stern sections of a circa 1776-1777 Continental Frigate without having a whole lot of usable historical engineering data available. This design is currently nothing but a ‘concept’ and a subjective work in progress. Every time I look at my drawing, I discover something that just doesn’t look correct, at least not correct from a ‘modern day’ engineering perspective... and then I quickly modify the drawing. I probably should not do this as methods of engineering that are used today are nothing like they once were 247 years ago. I’m just simply doing my best to try and design something that would be structurally sound and actually feasible via the readily available sizes and shapes of wood, ease of layered assembly construction techniques and the stable ‘locking’ of timber components together to prevent shifting wear and also reduce the potential for undesirable stresses being placed upon certain components while under heavy loads. “That was a ‘mouthful’ of ‘blurbage’, but you know what I’m trying to say!” 

 The hull of this ship is based upon Harold Hahn's plans for the Continental Frigate 'Hancock' 1777. His model was rather small, so I doubt that details of the stem and the stern framing would be easily seen. That's probably why his stem and stern pieces are basically nothing but a blank canvas on his plans. It makes sense. Why put a lot of work into something that will not be seen anyway? I'm scaling the model up and believe that these details will now be visible to those who want to peek between the frames. I'll never get the actual framing of the stem and stern 100% correct, so I just need to make it look reasonable for 'possible construction methods' of the time, artistic licensing included.
 Let me know what you think, what should be changed, etc. Please note that the keel is not ready to be reviewed yet. It's currently just there to keep the Stem and the Stern sections from falling off of my computer screen!🙂

 

 
 

Edited October 18, 2023 by tmj

[allanyed]

 As the keel on Hancock was 115 feet 10" long, I suspect there were no more than five pieces.   Looking at contracts of 28 gun and  36 gun, British frigates, the keels were made up of four and five pieces.  The 74's called out for no more than 6, but they were about 25 feet longer than Hancock. 

 

The deadwood aft looks overly complex.  Did you get this pattern from a contemporary source?  Several patterns from Goodwin's, The Construction and Fitting of English Ships or War, page 29, ISBN 0-87021-016-5 follows.  You can see the various dates that may be appropriate to Hancock even if these are British versus USS.

Allan

[druxey]

I agree with Allan: the scheme you have might be one for a very large ship of the line. For a smaller ship, fewer pieces. Also remember that much larger pieces of timber were available back then than today. For instance, the stem would be simply of two pieces with a single scarph joint.

[tmj]

Thanks guys, this helps!

What if I were to use a pattern similar to Allan's 74 Gun Ship circa 1798 example for the stern, and David's pattern on page #137 of his book (vol 1) for the stem? Would those two separate designs be acceptable and also likely for a ship the size of 'Hancock' and also the era? Sorry guys, I'm not showing the image from David's book. Copyrighted material and respect for David.   

Edited October 19, 2023 by tmj

[tmj]

'Hancock' Stem and Stern Design 'Take Two'.  "Am I getting closer, now?"  

 

[allanyed]

I would limit the keel to four pieces, maybe five at most.   With five pieces they would still be less than 25 feet long each.

Allan

[tmj]

8 minutes ago, allanyed said:

I would limit the keel to four pieces, maybe five at most.   With five pieces they would still be less than 25 feet long each.

Allan

Allan,

Could you possibly highlight the unnecessary pieces and email me with your visual representation of what pieces I need to eliminate? 

[allanyed]

Hi Tom,

Please email me the drawing you posted in DXF and DWG format at your convenience and I can see if I can play with it on my program.  Just in case also send Worst it as a PNG or JPG and I can go from there.

Thanks

 

Allan