Shot Garlands

[robert952]

A great thread for those (like @tmj and me) can learn details. I appreciate the time all took to post an answer.  

[Mark P]

Good Evening All;

 

To add a further note to the thread, I came across this while reading through Sir Henry Manwayring's seaman's dictionary, dated around 1624. 

 

He specifically states that lockers were placed by the ship's sides, at every gun, for shot to be stored in. However, in a fight, the shot would be taken out, and placed in, quote: 'in a rope made like a ring which sits flat upon the deck'. The reason for this was that if an enemy shot were to hit the full locker of balls,  the contents would be spread around like shrapnel and do great injury. 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

 

[allanyed]

There is a photo of a build from the late 18th century here at MSW that shows the garlands somehow attached to the bulwarks a small distance above the deck.   I do not recall ever seeing seeing this on contemporary models or plans so wonder if this was ever done on a full size ship.  It seems to be a lot of work if they had to be bolted to the bulwarks sufficiently to support the weight of multiple pieces of shot rather than having the garland it lie on the deck.  If anyone has information on garlands secured above the deck and to the bulwarks, I am interested in seeing how this would have been done.

Thanks

Allan

 

[Morgan]

10 minutes ago, allanyed said:

There is a photo of a build from the late 18th century here at MSW that shows the garlands somehow attached to the bulwarks a small distance above the deck.   I do not recall ever seeing seeing this on contemporary models or plans so wonder if this was ever done on a full size ship.  It seems to be a lot of work if they had to be bolted to the bulwarks sufficiently to support the weight of multiple pieces of shot rather than having the garland it lie on the deck.  If anyone has information on garlands secured above the deck and to the bulwarks, I am interested in seeing how this would have been done.

Thanks

Allan

 

They have done that on the Victory, so I assume that they got the idea from somewhere. The photo below shows it, but it wasn’t an actual feature the ship had as per the Turner 1806 watercolour - same gunports.

 

Gary

 

 

 

 

[uss frolick]

RE: the Turner 1806 sketch: A pair of guns on the poop deck?

[allanyed]

15 hours ago, Morgan said:

They have done that on the Victory, so I assume that they got the idea from somewhere.

Thanks Gary,

Ergonomically, it makes sense as there is no bending over down to the deck providing a shorter reach and easier on the seaman's back,  but I don't think these criteria were a consideration at that time when it came to locating shot garlands.  Then again ??? 

Allan 

Edited November 5, 2023 by allanyed

[Morgan]

11 hours ago, uss frolick said:

RE: the Turner 1806 sketch: A pair of guns on the poop deck?

You have to look twice, you’ve made the same initial assumption that I did.  
 

There are in fact three swivels mounted on a rail at the break of the Poop, it was shot away at Trafalgar and subsequently reinstated.  The Victory’s Marines were initially drawn up on the Poop, so it makes sense to have them close to the Marines. Nelson wouldn’t have Marines in the tops due to risk of fire to sails.

 

Gary

[uss frolick]

Morgan, I notice that in your photo of the Victory, post #29, previous page, there appears to be thin netting woven over the shot to keep it in the rack? Was this the contemporary practice, or is it a modern, anti-idiot-tourist device?

[Morgan]

27 minutes ago, uss frolick said:

Morgan, I notice that in your photo of the Victory, post #29, previous page, there appears to be thin netting woven over the shot to keep it in the rack? Was this the contemporary practice, or is it a modern, anti-idiot-tourist device?

I think it’s the anti idiot device, at least if you have to pick 4 shot up you’ll do some proper damage to your toes and may just get educated in the process 😈

The shot racks around the coamings are similarly safeguarded.

[allanyed]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:15 PM, tmj said:

Got it. "Thanks Gary!"

The above what I see in post #29.   Did something get deleted or is it only me that is missing something?  Without seeing a photo I must say I like the anti-idiot explanation!

Allan

Edited November 5, 2023 by allanyed

[Morgan]

6 minutes ago, allanyed said:

The above what I see in post #29.   Did something get deleted or is it only me that is missing something?

Hi Allan,

 

No, you missed nothing, tmj was referring to post #28 and the description of the triangular shot grommets.

 

Gary

[allanyed]

Got it, thanks Gary.  Yep, "anti-idiot" netting for tourists makes sense.

Allan