Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - Medium clipper - discontinued in lieu of new log

[rwiederrich]

Canary image just aft of the main mast..showing the boy cabin removed from over the main hatch.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

A rare image from her poop deck toward the main house...

Wow great pics especially last one. 

I also found something. I read that in second book of her Mr.Mjelde publiced some plan of her. But i do not have that book. 

Regarding placing her,i am not focused when doung some things, i definitely want her with composite masts. For the reason i lts my first american design so i have to try it and for aesthetic reason it looks simply beautiful. So i will have to go earlier with her riming but i sas one pic im glory book from later time with composite mast so i will have to check on it. I accomodated stem angle to the plnaan. See photo. Maybe i will try two look at the 90 degrees lines it was already angled but i lined another more agressive one. 

 

Now to the fun part. Wood filler dried. I first checked trigonometry with single plank to make sure all bulkheads touches the plank and made little correcfion of 19 plank in middle after that all worked fine. I coukd checked roundness - wooden end is not finely done at the top though. I finally measured model prototype and checked measured on pla  I will do same for bow  one day definitely.so  The moment of truth :)) . boston and sanfran journal of 1869 1870 writes: her stern is curvilinear  finely formed and the run is long an clean  and sets gracefully inti the fullness of fhe hull...i am staring at glory dragfed to shore in 1922 and pics....

 

 

 

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Canary image just aft of the main mast..showing the boy cabin removed from over the main hatch.

Fantastic pic Rob. thanks, rail bulwarks are visible, pump...

[rwiederrich]

11 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Fantastic pic Rob. thanks, rail bulwarks are visible, pump...

Yeah...I love this pic it definitely shows the gunwales very nicely.....

That board just behind the pump is a guard to prevent the fish from sliding under the pump...the trough is just on the other side where the fish came down to the deck and were picked through.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

22 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

I also found something. I read that in second book of her Mr.Mjelde publiced some plan of her. But i do not have that book. 

I have that book...I'll look and post anything I find that is pertinent.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

24 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

aesthetic reason it looks simply beautiful

I love the composite mast too...here is a pic of one on display...you can see the iron pins and bands that they required.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

https://archives.victoria.ca/glory-of-the-seas

 

and what do you say on stern ?  

 

Vlad

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

17 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

I love the composite mast too...here is a pic of one on display...you can see the iron pins and bands that they required.

never seen it "real" before. what a thing. 

[rwiederrich]

47 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

and what do you say on stern ?  

  I have this pic in my collection.  Not very clear...but I have several others I can share that show her bow much better...check these out.

[rwiederrich]

This might be of great help.  This drawing is said to accurately represent the hull dimensions taken from the builders model of the hull...if true this would confirm my impression that the bow has a greater rake and less of a vertical incline in the stem.....  It also corroborates with images.....  I think if you mimic this hull design with what you have already gathered....you might be on track....spot on track.  This drawing(I think) represents her very well....and is quite beautiful.

 

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Vladimir...I found drawing that Mjelde has drawn in his second book..*Clipper ship Captain* about Daniel McLaughlin  the captain of the Glory.

 

Great drawings

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Whoooa, you are treasure Rob. so far best photographies and im gonna compare that  plan :))) Vlad

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Just for completion on picture I added Mr.Mjelde design to our group of bulkheads and this might corroborate my assumption from the start that balclutha seems very similar... if you observe stern curvatures, I would not clear out also one other possibility from account....that Sovereign might not have been what MrMckay took as a prototype he might have made new very smart design of his own.

Mjeldes observation  is 95 per cent in corelation with Balclutha curves though (I believe unintentionally and even not taken Balclutha to account at all/  from bow to stern  by curves though ....

pics from left to right  - sovereign, balclutha, Mjelde, and mine /agressiving a bit balclutha design to go towards sovereing.  - so Mr. Mjelde stayed at same less agressive curve of balclutha even milder than mine approach of agressiving it a bit. interesting comparison though. From all this sovereing design is stern tigether with a family of extreme clippers...and He might have wanter to create a something new though...

enjoy

V.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Vladimir...I found drawing that Mjelde has drawn in his second book..*Clipper ship Captain* about Daniel McLaughlin  the captain of the Glory.

 

Great drawings

I think Mr. Mjelde is very fine designer  of his own having this ship in his vein, from his plan also incorporated shallow deadrise showing area of fat belly of this fine vessel from bottom and halfbread  lines showing very steady proportional rise of belly and   fading away towards stern in similar manner   

[rwiederrich]

Hope some good scale drawings can be made from all of this in the scale you want.  I will take some much better images that are actually clear and clean.

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Hope some good scale drawings can be made from all of this in the scale you want.  I will take some much better images that are actually clear and clean.

 

Rob

exactly.for that reason  i already ordered a book  

 

[rwiederrich]

In my photo stash I found some pics of a model of the Glory...not sure of the builder....  but she has a full entry.  this model represents the time frame I also built her in....notice the deck furniture and the locations of her boats and lack of chicken and boys houses.....  this models bow is slightly incorrect...but I hope to create a better replica...based upon the drawings we come up with...….

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

exactly.for that reason  i already ordered a book  

 

I'm glad you are getting *Hooked* on the Glory...you can now see my own interest and how much history I have collected on her myself.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Here are some better images of the hull lines.  And a bit larger... and by combining the 4 profiles you will have the entire plan... 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I'm glad you are getting *Hooked* on the Glory...you can now see my own interest and how much history I have collected on her myself.

 

Rob

yes i am hooked though. it is very nice model ( green) i think nevertheless the bow. deadrise is allright and her "fat belly is modeled nicely i guess. intereting gunwales...looking forward to your new  build as well i guess when you finish cutty modded one. gunwales look interesting i have to familiar myself more with these designs , and im observing her deck intensively now . interesting without added cabins as well. i asked santa for crothes clipper book but maybe he will come earlier this year:) previous bw photos of glory i value high, as there was no shade when photographed her from side and straight angle. as well ad i like photo i added from one of her captain daugther family albums. i read in Mjeldes book they lived whole year in boat. i think it was captain that faced mutiny....  regarding glory, knowing now what accomplishment and also role she played in McKays life, not  just for the fact he put for last  the best of previous himself  into her and how succesfull she was  beautifuly  built  and alco so close to survival - i am surprise she is out of desire of modelers companies - US foremost. i would say that would be 100 times better honor  owed to Mckay than raising a statue or filling world with flying cloud again and again. world would get know her- her remarkable story. i dont know itf there are mighty criteria for design but eg photos of glory are trully far more complete than of cutty sark for example. for example if someone wants to build cutty upon her older look good luck finding something valuable- no photos existed. just maybe 4- 5. deck photos of glory are a azineg one with black  kid facing aftward and photo taken towards fore of ship from poop. even small detailing  on wood on windows is clearly visible. i guess there is not much photos showing forecastle details but no problem.... now imagine of some multimilionaire announcing investing  of building 1:1 full sailing replica of her. close to heart stop  :))) 

[ClipperFan]

With all due respect to Michael Mjelde's two wonderful, engrossing books on Donald McKay's last Medium Clipper "Glory of the Seas" the Hull profile published in both is grossly inaccurate. It appears to be based mainly on a published image of her at her fitting out available in the late '70s when his first book was published.

Later images now available reveal a much sharper "Clipper" bow. Glory's Goddess Athene figurehead is published as being 90" (7 1/2 feet). Observed at her launch, it's clear her figurehead projects about 15 feet from her prow, since the carved arch which she's mounted to is slightly larger than the figurehead herself. 

Artists familiar with "perspective distortion" recognize that objects appear totally different based upon a person's viewpoint. The picture of Glory's fitting out is closer to her starboard stern quarter, slightly below, probably taken from a launch on the water and it appears that Glory herself has a slight lean to port. This perspective distortion must be taken into consideration when trying to evaluate her true Hull appearance.

 

[ClipperFan]

By cropping the image of Glory of the Seas fitting out you can see how similar this looks to the purported hull as drawn by the naval architect for Mr Mjelde's books. Now that there are more broadside images available it's clear (at least to me) that the rendering is inspired mainly by this particular shot.

[ClipperFan]

A cropped 1907 Starboard broadside of Glory of the Seas allows comparison to the scene at her fitting out. Side by side, a dramatic difference in Hull forms is immediately noticeable. As I continue efforts to reproduce an exacting reconstruction of this beautiful vessel, this is the most reliable source unveiled so far.

Later images of Glory's hull after she was converted to a Salmon processing plan, aren't as accurate. There were major modifications to her deck which make it far more difficult to see her original sleek Hull and graceful sheer. 

[rwiederrich]

6 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

With all due respect to Michael Mjelde's two wonderful, engrossing books on Donald McKay's last Medium Clipper "Glory of the Seas" the Hull profile published in both is grossly inaccurate. It appears to be based mainly on a published image of her at her fitting out available in the late '70s when his first book was published.

Later images now available reveal a much sharper "Clipper" bow. Glory's Goddess Athene figurehead is published as being 90" (7 1/2 feet). Observed at her launch, it's clear her figurehead projects about 15 feet from her prow, since the carved arch which she's mounted to is slightly larger than the figurehead herself. 

Artists familiar with "perspective distortion" recognize that objects appear totally different based upon a person's viewpoint. The picture of Glory's fitting out is closer to her starboard stern quarter, slightly below, probably taken from a launch on the water and it appears that Glory herself has a slight lean to port. This perspective distortion must be taken into consideration when trying to evaluate her true Hull appearance.

 

 

It's clear from the Peabody Museum image that the Glory had a nice trim/sharp entry.  Note the copper line drawn out and also note the image of her at rest with her salty waterline imposed on her hull. Despite the slight perspective distortion...it can be devised she had a sharp entry...but was slightly more robust as you proceeded back along her notable flat floor and shallow deadrise.

 

I feel I will be able to produce from these plans...comparing to the images of her hull...a pretty good representation.

 

Thanks for your input and evaluation.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

Rob, after seeing the incredible beauty you created of Great Republic, I am sure you will do Glory of the Seas justice. I just would love to see McKay's last masterpiece given the proper treatment she deserves.

[ClipperFan]

These plans are from McKay's own hand, which were intended to be published in a book which sadly never came to pass. From Richard McKay's publication on Donald McKay's Clipper Ship, apparently there were dozens of similar illustrations, now all carefully kept in storage. These particular originals are available for much closer viewing on the Peabody Essex Museum, Salem, Mass (PEM Website). They show sister Clipper Bowed Packet Ships 'Star of Empire' & 'Chariot of Fame.' As these are both triple decked vessels and are near size to 'Glory of the Seas' they closely resemble her Hull. 

[ClipperFan]

Here's another illustration of the Goddess 'Athene' who's lovely form graced "Glory of the Seas". The angle of inclination of the Bowsprit (nautical term 'steeve') is precisely measured based on dimensions in Michael Mjelde's first book. There's a highly detailed contemporary description of "Glory" herself, which is most likely reprinted from a Boston Daily Atlas article. Those dimensions are what I used to create the sketch of her Hull and sailplan (Fore and Main Masts are accurate but the Mizzen appears a little tall).

[ClipperFan]

Large original Builder's Half Hull of 1853 McKay Clipper 'Romance of the Sea' (12'' x 5" × 60") From the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, George B Upton Hall. According to her description in The Boston Daily Atlas, her dimensions were 235' on deck, 20' depth of hold, 8' height of between decks with a sheer of 4' to 5'. Not depicted is her rudder,  16" 'monkey rail' which mounts just above 'main rail', her cutwater, carved arch, naval hoods or small female figurehead. Shadows at the bow hint of a cutwater but only the stem is actually depicted. 

One big challenge that Donald McKay has left those of us wanting to accurately recreate his vessels is his secrecy in depicting bows of his ships. There are sketches of his Clipper 'Lightning' which literally leave lines of the bow blank. In his time, Mr McKay was referred to as a Mechanic who carefully guarded his design secrets. Apparently naval hoods which can be seen just above the figurehead reinforced the cutwater allowing his vessels to batter their way through massive waves at The Horn. As a result of this, his most famous Clipper 'Flying Cloud' still doesn't have an accurate hull in any of the replicas I've seen. In the original Boston Daily Atlas description, her naval hoods and cutwater are described in detail. Contemporary illustrations of her launch and at the dock show these devices. Yet today, even the most spectacularly impressive models just tack on her winged angel figurehead awkwardly at the Bow with no obvious means of support. 

Since there are such great photos available of 'Glory of the Seas' which clearly show her graceful carved arch incorporated into her cutwater, with naval hoods extending from the bow and her lovely figurehead all working harmoniously, I believe she could be a "Rosetta Stone" to finally, accurately reconstruct McKays other famous Clippers.

[rwiederrich]

13 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, after seeing the incredible beauty you created of Great Republic, I am sure you will do Glory of the Seas justice. I just would love to see McKay's last masterpiece given the proper treatment she deserves.

My Earlier attempt to recreate the lines of Glory was met with some disappointment...based solely upon the limited material and media I was working with/from.  A Revell Cutty Sark hull.   My next attempt will be a more accurate hull model of the Glory.  Your contributions are well accepted...thank you.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

12 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

These plans are from McKay's own hand, which were intended to be published in a book which sadly never came to pass. From Richard McKay's publication on Donald McKay's Clipper Ship, apparently there were dozens of similar illustrations, now all carefully kept in storage. These particular originals are available for much closer viewing on the Peabody Essex Museum, Salem, Mass (PEM Website). They show sister Clipper Bowed Packet Ships 'Star of Empire' & 'Chariot of Fame.' As these are both triple decked vessels and are near size to 'Glory of the Seas' they closely resemble her Hull. 

Indeed...they were both 2050 tons as close to Glory's 2102 tons.  Glory's stern was less elliptical and she was a bit longer.  Never the less, she was very similar.  Good point.

 

Rob