CV-59 USS Forrestal Carrier

[GZM2023]

Hello everyone. 

I am embarking on a 1:72 scale static wood replica of the USS Forrestal. At 1:72 it will be 14'-3" long, end to end. I have been building balsa RC airplanes for decades but never a ship so this will be a new new experience. 

 

Can someone please advise the best kind of wood to use on something like this?

 

Thanks

Zack

[GrandpaPhil]

Are you going to fiberglass it?

[Roger Pellett]

The first question that you need to answer is how you plan to build it. Lumber choices then follow.

 

The currently popular method Is POB.  This consists of erecting many bulkheads on a wooden spine and planking hull with wood strips.  You will almost surly need to apply copious amounts of sort of harden-able putty to help you fair the result.  As GrandpaPhil suggests this sort of model can be sheathed with fiberglass.  Wood for this type of construction:  Central spine, bulkheads quality plywood, 3/8” thick.  Basswood or pine strip wood planking.

 

The other option, less popular today is a carved wood hull.  This system was used to build the large experimental models for tank towing to determine hull resistance and the magnificent large scale models of US Navy warships built by Gibbs & Cox during World War II.  Their 1:48 scale USS Iowa on display at the Smithsonian is an example of model making at the highest level.  You of course carve this type of hull from a solid log!  Instead you laminate layers of wood band sawed to shapes derived from the waterlines found on the vessel’s lines drawing.  Personally, I love carving ship model hulls.  If I were doing this, I would use quality 1in nominal or perhaps 5 quarter lumberyard pine.

 

Roger

Edited February 29 by Roger Pellett

[GZM2023]

1 hour ago, GrandpaPhil said:

Are you going to fiberglass it?

Yes, just the hull

[GZM2023]

19 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

The first question that you need to answer is how you plan to build it. Lumber choices then follow.

 

The currently popular method Is POB.  This consists of erecting many bulkheads on a wooden spine and planking hull with wood strips.  You will almost surly need to apply copious amounts of sort of harden-able putty to help you fair the result.  As GrandpaPhil suggests this sort of model can be sheathed with fiberglass.  Wood for this type of construction:  Central spine, bulkheads quality plywood, 3/8” thick.  Basswood or pine strip wood planking.

 

The other option, less popular today is a carved wood hull.  This system was used to build the large experimental models for tank towing to determine hull resistance and the magnificent large scale models of US Navy warships built by Gibbs & Cox during World War II.  Their 1:48 scale USS Iowa on display at the Smithsonian is an example of model making at the highest level.  You of course carve this type of hull from a solid log!  Instead you laminate layers of wood band sawed to shapes derived from the waterlines found on the vessel’s lines drawing.  Personally, I love carving ship model hulls.  If I were doing this, I would use quality 1in nominal or perhaps 5 quarter lumberyard pine.

 

Roger

Thanks Roger

I will more than likely build this just as I have always built my airplanes. I will trace out the bulkheads in AutoCAD, print them individually, glue to the wood and cut them out with my bandsaw. I will cut stringer slots in the bulkheads. Once all the strips are glued in, I will start adding the planking. 

 

Once everything is planked and sanded, I will fiberglass the hull.

 

My question is primarily what kind of wood I could use for the bulkheads and stringers. I was thinking of doubling wall paneling for the bulkheads and ripping white pine 2x4's into 1/4" square strips for the stringers. I can buy these in 16ft. long so all the stringers will not have to be spliced. 

 

Thanks again

 

 

[Dr PR]

Is this a display model or R/C?

 

Choose your materials carefully if it will be outdoors and exposed to direct sunlight. Wood doesn't expand much when heated. Metals expand a bit more, and plastics expand a lot! A fellow in Australia built a 1:72 R/C carrier with a wooden hull and plastic (styrene or Plexiglass) flight deck and hanger sides. In sunlight on a hot day the flight deck buckled upwards and the hanger sides warped and pulled loose.

 

A two meter (6 ft) long piece of acrylic will expand about 5 mm (1/4 inch) in length with a 20C temperature rise!

[rcweir]

I'd use baltic birch plywood for the bulkheads and clear white pine for the hull planking and most everything else.    I once made a 17' kayak, with 1/4" strips for the hull (red cedar & white pine) covered in plexiglass, and that project has some similarities to your hull.   For the strongback longitudinal I carefully chose a long, straight, clear piece of structural grade Douglas fir.  The strongback was the most expensive piece of wood in the project, but it ensured the resulting boat was straight.

[GZM2023]

11 hours ago, Dr PR said:

Is this a display model or R/C?

 

Hi Phil

This will be a indoor static display. Thanks

[GZM2023]

2 hours ago, rcweir said:

I'd use baltic birch plywood for the bulkheads and clear white pine for the hull planking and most everything else.    I once made a 17' kayak, with 1/4" strips for the hull (red cedar & white pine) covered in plexiglass, and that project has some similarities to your hull.   For the strongback longitudinal I carefully chose a long, straight, clear piece of structural grade Douglas fir.  The strongback was the most expensive piece of wood in the project, but it ensured the resulting boat was straight.

Hi Bob

Yes, that is the kind material info I am looking for. I was planning to use doubled up paneling board for the bulkheads and 1/4" stringers that I rip on my table saw from 16ft. long 2x4's so there is no joints from front to back. 

 

Sounds like I may want to go with plywood for the bulkheads???

[rcweir]

Dunno.   What you want, I think, is something that's dimensionally consistent in its reaction to the environment and is reasonable to sand to give a good gluing surface for your planks.  

[GZM2023]

17 hours ago, rcweir said:

Dunno.   What you want, I think, is something that's dimensionally consistent in its reaction to the environment and is reasonable to sand to give a good gluing surface for your planks.  

Yes, precisely.

[Ian B]

No where near the scale you are considering..but POB with a lot of sanding and filling does work for a steel hull ship

Edited March 2 by Ian B

[GZM2023]

2 hours ago, Ian B said:

No where near the scale you are considering..but POB with a lot of sanding and filling does work for a steel hull ship

 

 

 

 

 

 

WOW!!! That is incredible work. I hope my project turns out just 1/10th as nice as yours.

[GZM2023]

Hey guys,

I just did this bulkhead in CAD. Can anyone tell me if I am on the right track here?

Thanks

 

[Don]

You are on the right track, I see what you are getting at.  I really don't think you need all those stringers or any at all for that matter, but that is a matter of choice on how you want to build it.  I think it would work out ok.  On an aircraft carrier their shape is not the same as most naval ships, so I think it will be a little harder, but doable.

 

I am building a model of a heavy cruiser USS Des Moines CA 134 I have a log started, but have not added to it in a long time.  Was building this for my dad, he served on the ship for a couple of years in 1958-59.  He passed away suddenly and have not worked on it since, but I am going to get it out of mothballs sometime soon, my kids want me to finish it.  I have since retired and have more time now (I hope).

 

Anyway, the scale is not the same but close 1:96.  It is large almost 8 feet and it is father along than the log.  It is planked, filled in and sanded now I am adding simulated plating and armor belts etc. I built it like most POB, center keel or former, bulkheads and planked.

 

I can tell you this much with a ship of that size there will be a lot of construction material to get it all framed out, it will start getting heavy quickly.  The more frames you add the easier it will be to fair up and to get it planked.  No matter how much CAD work you start with some frames will not be right so be prepared to do some sanding or adding material, or just making a new one.  I started mine out with drawings in CAD and added bulkheads so the planking didn't have to span real large distance.  I really should have added more but it was getting heavy enough as is.  The bulkheads, center and deck are plywood, the planking is some poplar and beech I had laying around.  If I had to do it over I would have used some thin plywood (like 1/8") for planking just to control the expansion contraction issues with natural wood.  I also used a pneumatic pin nailer and lots of glue to attach the planks lots of them.  Much faster and easier than glue and clamps.  Just make sure the countersink far enough for sanding.  

 

Make sure it is centered down the middle, that's why I stated with the center former.  I used a laser level etc. and screw it right to a building board and worked out from there.  Be prepared to do lots of sanding and filling and don't rush that job.  you want your hull to be the shape it supposed to be both sides, you will notice waves and dips as you move along.  That's were all the sanding and filling comes into play and you swear you will never finish.  There will be a time where you say good enough.  

 

You can check out my log.  It is in my signature.

 

Don 

 

[GZM2023]

On 3/19/2024 at 8:19 PM, Don said:

You are on the right track, I see what you are getting at.  I really don't think you need all those stringers or any at all for that matter, but that is a matter of choice on how you want to build it.  I think it would work out ok.  On an aircraft carrier their shape is not the same as most naval ships, so I think it will be a little harder, but doable.

 

I am building a model of a heavy cruiser USS Des Moines CA 134 I have a log started, but have not added to it in a long time.  Was building this for my dad, he served on the ship for a couple of years in 1958-59.  He passed away suddenly and have not worked on it since, but I am going to get it out of mothballs sometime soon, my kids want me to finish it.  I have since retired and have more time now (I hope).

 

Anyway, the scale is not the same but close 1:96.  It is large almost 8 feet and it is father along than the log.  It is planked, filled in and sanded now I am adding simulated plating and armor belts etc. I built it like most POB, center keel or former, bulkheads and planked.

 

I can tell you this much with a ship of that size there will be a lot of construction material to get it all framed out, it will start getting heavy quickly.  The more frames you add the easier it will be to fair up and to get it planked.  No matter how much CAD work you start with some frames will not be right so be prepared to do some sanding or adding material, or just making a new one.  I started mine out with drawings in CAD and added bulkheads so the planking didn't have to span real large distance.  I really should have added more but it was getting heavy enough as is.  The bulkheads, center and deck are plywood, the planking is some poplar and beech I had laying around.  If I had to do it over I would have used some thin plywood (like 1/8") for planking just to control the expansion contraction issues with natural wood.  I also used a pneumatic pin nailer and lots of glue to attach the planks lots of them.  Much faster and easier than glue and clamps.  Just make sure the countersink far enough for sanding.  

 

Make sure it is centered down the middle, that's why I stated with the center former.  I used a laser level etc. and screw it right to a building board and worked out from there.  Be prepared to do lots of sanding and filling and don't rush that job.  you want your hull to be the shape it supposed to be both sides, you will notice waves and dips as you move along.  That's were all the sanding and filling comes into play and you swear you will never finish.  There will be a time where you say good enough.  

 

You can check out my log.  It is in my signature.

 

Don 

 

Wow, thanks for all the info Don. Sounds like you really have a good amount of knowledge for a project like this. 

 

What would you recommend for the keel / main stringer? This thing will have a long span with a lot of deflection if it is not strong at the keel.

Thanks

[Don]

Its been awhile ago since I made the frame work, but I think it was baltic birch plywood 3/8" probably maybe 1/2".  Not sure where you are located but in my area I could only get 5'x5' sheets so I had to splice the length together.  I basically used plywood gusset plates to join the sections together.  Baltic birch plywood is fairly straight doesn't have voids and has more plies than standard plywood, it is used in cabinet work.  The down side is, it is very hard to sand and shape but stable.  The bulkheads I think I used 1/4" reason less sanding and weight.  I do some cabinet work from time to time and good plywood is getting harder to find it is also much more expensive than when I got mine.  Look for a place that caters to cabinet makers.

 

With the length that you are building about 14'  deflection will be an issue no matter what you use, like I said good plywood is hard to get.  You will have to brace it in some sort of building board or jig.  The good thing is that you can screw it almost anywhere everything will get covered.  Just remember as you start to plank it and get the hull covered don't cover up where you screwed it down.  You have to get the thing loose from the building board and or jigs you are using to hold it straight. 

 

The cruiser I am building has sheer to the deck which you aircraft carrier does not so that will be easier to get a nice level surface.  Spend a lot of time at the beginning to get everything straight, level and symmetrical etc. it will save you a ton of time latter.  

 

The cruiser hull is sleek and solid, as you know an aircraft carrier hull towards the deck is anything but sleek.  You will have to work out how much you want to leave open, work in all the access decks, weapon areas etc. as you get closer to the deck.  I started mine upside down and planked toward the deck fairly straight forward.  With an aircraft carrier and flight deck along with hull openings everywhere you will have to be more more creative. 

 

Don 

 

[GZM2023]

10 hours ago, Don said:

Its been awhile ago since I made the frame work, but I think it was baltic birch plywood 3/8" probably maybe 1/2".  Not sure where you are located but in my area I could only get 5'x5' sheets so I had to splice the length together.  I basically used plywood gusset plates to join the sections together.  Baltic birch plywood is fairly straight doesn't have voids and has more plies than standard plywood, it is used in cabinet work.  The down side is, it is very hard to sand and shape but stable.  The bulkheads I think I used 1/4" reason less sanding and weight.  I do some cabinet work from time to time and good plywood is getting harder to find it is also much more expensive than when I got mine.  Look for a place that caters to cabinet makers.

 

With the length that you are building about 14'  deflection will be an issue no matter what you use, like I said good plywood is hard to get.  You will have to brace it in some sort of building board or jig.  The good thing is that you can screw it almost anywhere everything will get covered.  Just remember as you start to plank it and get the hull covered don't cover up where you screwed it down.  You have to get the thing loose from the building board and or jigs you are using to hold it straight. 

 

The cruiser I am building has sheer to the deck which you aircraft carrier does not so that will be easier to get a nice level surface.  Spend a lot of time at the beginning to get everything straight, level and symmetrical etc. it will save you a ton of time latter.  

 

The cruiser hull is sleek and solid, as you know an aircraft carrier hull towards the deck is anything but sleek.  You will have to work out how much you want to leave open, work in all the access decks, weapon areas etc. as you get closer to the deck.  I started mine upside down and planked toward the deck fairly straight forward.  With an aircraft carrier and flight deck along with hull openings everywhere you will have to be more more creative. 

 

Don 

 

This great info. You have have been super helpful. As I get further along, would it be possible for us to talk over the phone? I will have some more questions, it would be easier to go over it over the phone than all the typing, LOL. Thanks again Don

[Don]

Not a problem just PM (private message available through the forum)

 

May I make a couple of suggestions which I think will help you out a lot.

 

First start a log of your build even though you are just starting the CAD work, you will find that a lot of members will follow even if they don't comment on everything you post.  Pictures are a great help when trying to help someone so post away.  Many will comment if they have some input, which is a great help.  You will find that this forum has some of the finest model ship builders in the world and there is a wealth of knowledge available.     I know I shouldn't talk, I have not keep up my log, but I do plan on being more active now that I retired.  It may take me a bit to get everything I am doing updated, I just retired at the end of 2023 and retirement is definitely a change.   

 

Also it would help if you added your location to your profile.  This will help when suggestions are made about materials, tools etc.  Even within the states not everything is available everywhere.  As an example, I live in an area where hardwood is readily available but Alaskan Cedar is not I have to source that which is more expensive and not just a run down the road. 

 

Even though this model is gigantic in size the scale is still relatively small compared to some scales being used here, 1:64 and 1:48 are very common, which are larger than what you are working in.  All the stuff that gets added is what makes your project come alive.  With a model size of over 14'  every area will need to be as detailed as possible.  It will be hard to take the whole model in at once so people will view areas, so each area essentially becomes a model.  This is where a log will help you out, the members here can offer many tips, tricks etc. What one person didn't think of someone else will.  Many brains work better than one in this case.

 

As I am sure you probably already figured out is that you cannot have enough source material and this will be an ongoing process.  I found detailed pictures are of great value, you cannot have enough of them.  I am lucky the sister ship the USS Salem CA 139 is a museum ship located in Boston. So for me the net is loaded with video and images that are of great value to me. 

 

Do a few mockups to see if it will work for you.  Doesn't have to be precise or a lot, just a few bulkheads for example will give you a feel if the materials you plan on using will work for you.  Remember what worked for me may not work for you.  Everybody has different tools at their disposal.  

 

It will come together, have to start somewhere, solve each problem as they come up.  That's what makes it fun.

 

Don

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GZM2023]

On 3/23/2024 at 8:34 AM, Don said:

Not a problem just PM (private message available through the forum)

 

May I make a couple of suggestions which I think will help you out a lot.

 

First start a log of your build even though you are just starting the CAD work, you will find that a lot of members will follow even if they don't comment on everything you post.  Pictures are a great help when trying to help someone so post away.  Many will comment if they have some input, which is a great help.  You will find that this forum has some of the finest model ship builders in the world and there is a wealth of knowledge available.     I know I shouldn't talk, I have not keep up my log, but I do plan on being more active now that I retired.  It may take me a bit to get everything I am doing updated, I just retired at the end of 2023 and retirement is definitely a change.   

 

Also it would help if you added your location to your profile.  This will help when suggestions are made about materials, tools etc.  Even within the states not everything is available everywhere.  As an example, I live in an area where hardwood is readily available but Alaskan Cedar is not I have to source that which is more expensive and not just a run down the road. 

 

Even though this model is gigantic in size the scale is still relatively small compared to some scales being used here, 1:64 and 1:48 are very common, which are larger than what you are working in.  All the stuff that gets added is what makes your project come alive.  With a model size of over 14'  every area will need to be as detailed as possible.  It will be hard to take the whole model in at once so people will view areas, so each area essentially becomes a model.  This is where a log will help you out, the members here can offer many tips, tricks etc. What one person didn't think of someone else will.  Many brains work better than one in this case.

 

As I am sure you probably already figured out is that you cannot have enough source material and this will be an ongoing process.  I found detailed pictures are of great value, you cannot have enough of them.  I am lucky the sister ship the USS Salem CA 139 is a museum ship located in Boston. So for me the net is loaded with video and images that are of great value to me. 

 

Do a few mockups to see if it will work for you.  Doesn't have to be precise or a lot, just a few bulkheads for example will give you a feel if the materials you plan on using will work for you.  Remember what worked for me may not work for you.  Everybody has different tools at their disposal.  

 

It will come together, have to start somewhere, solve each problem as they come up.  That's what makes it fun.

 

Don

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don

Yes, I agree, all very good points. I will consider a log for sure. For me not yet retired, it will be a longer build than if I was so it may be hit and miss. I am sure this build will take quite a while. 

 

My biggest concern right now is creating the new bulkheads and keeping the same contour of the hull as I go along. With the spacings for what I will need. I will need to make quite a few more. 

Edited March 25 by GZM2023