hamilton Posted May 21 Share #1 Posted May 21 Hi there: Working on Echo cross-section and wondering about the size.arrangement of bolts that would have been used to fasten the square frames to the rising wood/keel. hamilton Quote current builds: Corel HMS Bellona (1780); Admiralty models Echo cross-section (semi-scratch) previous builds: MS Phantom (scuttled, 2017); MS Sultana (1767); Corel Brittany Sloop (scuttled, 2022); MS Kate Cory; MS Armed Virginia Sloop (in need of a refit); Corel Flattie; Mamoli Gretel; Amati Bluenose (1921) (scuttled, 2023); AL San Francisco (destroyed by land krakens [i.e., cats]); Corel Toulonnaise (1823); MS Glad Tidings (1937) (in need of a refit); HMS Blandford (1719) from Corel HMS Greyhound; Fair Rosamund (1832) from OcCre Dos Amigos (missing in action); Amati Hannah (ship in a bottle); Mamoli America (1851); Bluenose fishing schooner (1921) (scratch); Off-Centre Sailing Skiff (scratch) under the bench: MS Emma C Barry; MS USS Constitution; MS Flying Fish; Corel Berlin; a wood supplier Colonial Schooner Hannah; Victory Models H.M.S. Fly; CAF Models HMS Granado; MS USS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted May 21 Share #2 Posted May 21 1. You do not make it easy when not identifying the class and year of Echo. 2. If you are at all serious about 18th C. RN vessels and aim at authenticity you should own a copy of Yedlinsky. 18 gun sloop of war: Floor timber : Every other floor timber to be bolted through the main keel - bolt dia. = 1" Keelson : To be square = 12" x 12" exclusive of what is let down between the floors which may be = 7/8" Scarphs in length = 4' 6" The keelson bolts should be driven through and carefully clenched on the underside of the main keel dia. = 1" Excepting where the rabbet for the plank is taken out in the middle. There, they come through and clench on the underside of the keel that is coaked to the main keel. druxey, hamilton, allanyed and 1 other 4 Quote NRG member 50 years Current: NMS HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - POF timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - POF framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted May 21 Share #3 Posted May 21 Another source is, of course, TFFM (The Swan Class Sloops 1767-1780, The Fully Framed Model, SeaWatchBooks LLC.) mtaylor, hamilton, dafi and 1 other 4 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted May 21 Author Share #4 Posted May 21 Thanks Jaager and David - and sorry Jaager for the ambiguity - I did not have that info on hand - it is the Echo of 1781 - but I suppose that's immaterial now! hamilton mtaylor 1 Quote current builds: Corel HMS Bellona (1780); Admiralty models Echo cross-section (semi-scratch) previous builds: MS Phantom (scuttled, 2017); MS Sultana (1767); Corel Brittany Sloop (scuttled, 2022); MS Kate Cory; MS Armed Virginia Sloop (in need of a refit); Corel Flattie; Mamoli Gretel; Amati Bluenose (1921) (scuttled, 2023); AL San Francisco (destroyed by land krakens [i.e., cats]); Corel Toulonnaise (1823); MS Glad Tidings (1937) (in need of a refit); HMS Blandford (1719) from Corel HMS Greyhound; Fair Rosamund (1832) from OcCre Dos Amigos (missing in action); Amati Hannah (ship in a bottle); Mamoli America (1851); Bluenose fishing schooner (1921) (scratch); Off-Centre Sailing Skiff (scratch) under the bench: MS Emma C Barry; MS USS Constitution; MS Flying Fish; Corel Berlin; a wood supplier Colonial Schooner Hannah; Victory Models H.M.S. Fly; CAF Models HMS Granado; MS USS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted May 22 Share #5 Posted May 22 From the above, I would bolt the keelson to every timber. With a bolt already in every other timber a pattern that avoids having the keelson bolts and existing timber bolts on different tracks is needed. A "Z" with the hole 4" in from the edge of the keelson and since the floors are sided 11" ( 11/3= 3 2/3") about 3.5" in from the edge of the floor. The next timber would be a mirror. The floor bolts having the same pattern - staggered by one timber - but since it not visible, the floor to keel bolts can be skipped. mtaylor and hamilton 2 Quote NRG member 50 years Current: NMS HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - POF timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - POF framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted May 22 Share #6 Posted May 22 Thanks Dean Allan mtaylor 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted May 22 Author Share #7 Posted May 22 Thanks very much Jaager - and sorry for being ambiguous earlier. hamilton allanyed and mtaylor 2 Quote current builds: Corel HMS Bellona (1780); Admiralty models Echo cross-section (semi-scratch) previous builds: MS Phantom (scuttled, 2017); MS Sultana (1767); Corel Brittany Sloop (scuttled, 2022); MS Kate Cory; MS Armed Virginia Sloop (in need of a refit); Corel Flattie; Mamoli Gretel; Amati Bluenose (1921) (scuttled, 2023); AL San Francisco (destroyed by land krakens [i.e., cats]); Corel Toulonnaise (1823); MS Glad Tidings (1937) (in need of a refit); HMS Blandford (1719) from Corel HMS Greyhound; Fair Rosamund (1832) from OcCre Dos Amigos (missing in action); Amati Hannah (ship in a bottle); Mamoli America (1851); Bluenose fishing schooner (1921) (scratch); Off-Centre Sailing Skiff (scratch) under the bench: MS Emma C Barry; MS USS Constitution; MS Flying Fish; Corel Berlin; a wood supplier Colonial Schooner Hannah; Victory Models H.M.S. Fly; CAF Models HMS Granado; MS USS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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