74 gun ship midsection

[garyshipwright]

Hello every one.

I was going through the AOTS of Bellona and on page 27 is a midsection of a 74 gun ship. Am looking for some information on the lower capstan in the model and was wondering what the time frame of it would be and maybe if it has a name other then midship. Am trying to figure about the drop pawl's on the lower capstan and maybe if they came in to use early then what Lavery is saying which is 1787 time frame. I do know that a new type of capstan was insalled on the Defiance in 1772, with drop pawl's, but after testing it it seems to have lost favor and nothing more on drop pawl's untill 1790 or so. The capstan was invented by Anton Eckhardt  who was a prolific inventor of the late eighteenth century. Any way if you know any more about the model in the Bellona book please let me know. I have gone to the NMM but  didn't turn up anything. Thanks folks.

 

Gary

[AntonyUK]

Hi Gary.

This link might be of interest to you.

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/model/report2/

This is a general captain.

 

Regards Antony.

[Alex M]

Hi Gary, have you seen this drawing: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/382824.html ? Also interesting this image of St. George Capstan: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/113568.html (note the notches for pawl's in the top of the drum)

 

The drop pawl's as showed in your picture requires a massive wooden drum at the bottom. It's are just two different types, you can't install such pawl's to old type of capstan. The model in Bellona book represent the ship from about 1790-1800, note the raise of floors and also the seppings method of joining the frame timbers without a chock.

 

Alex

[garyshipwright]

Thanks Antony and Alex. Gary

[SJSoane]

Hi Gary,

 

Here are some photos of the capstan in the ca. 1760 Bellona model, at midships. It shows the simple "kick under the capstan" kind of pawl.

 

In my Bellona Admiralty drawings, the capstan shown here on the upper deck has a space as shown here for the pawl to go underneath, presumably to a rachet of some kind? But the capstan directly underneath on the gundeck does not show a similar space between it and the deck. Does this suggest that the gundeck capstan had no pawls?

 

There is some evidence that this model was built while the ship was under construction in 1760 (relocations of the gunports are drawn in over the original drawing with instructions to the dockyard; these correspond to the locations of the gunports in the model.) However, there are some details like gratings of very different sizes, which suggest some things were repaired, or replaced over time. Whether the capstan is original I cannot say! I would guess that while the capstan might have been replaced later, less likely they would have pulled up the capstan partners in a repair...

 

And then there is the photo of the split hull model of a gundeck shown in the AOS of the Bellona--the Ajax?--which shows two kick under pawls located closer together.

 

So I am guessing this is the norm through the 1760s-70s at least.

 

Best wishes,

 

mark

 

[garyshipwright]

Thanks Mark. 
Thats what am trying to figure out is the drop pawl's and if maybe they would of fitted Alfred with them in 1780. As I posted earlier, they were being tested in 1770/71 but not much is said till 1787 or so time frame. Guess I could always say that maybe Alfred got them a little earlier.  Hum guess I may just have to sleep on that one. Mark you said the Ajax? Can you tell me were you found the name to go with that midsection? Have been looking for it's name, but have come up short. I do know that Alex said it was from around 1790/ 1800 time frame. 

 

Gary

Edited January 13, 2014 by garyshipwright

[SJSoane]

 

Hi Gary,

 

The photo I was thinking of is on page 27 of the AOS for the Bellona,  HMS Ajax of 1767. You can see the two kick in place pawls on the fore side of the capstan partners.

 

I have seen your cross section photo in a book, but I can't remember where. I'll look around.

 

Le me know what else you find out!

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

[garyshipwright]

Hi Mark.

The cross section is also on page 27  of the AOTS Bellona, right below the one of the Ajax. If you look closely you can see the drop pawls on the lower capstain.

 

Gary

[garyshipwright]

  Well folks, seems I have found a bit more information on the drop pawl's and weather or not fitting them to Alfred capstan's would fit her time frame.

 

  In John Harland's book, Capstans and Windlasses, gives this on drop pawl's. Drop Pawls were fitted to the base of the capstan and appear at the end of the 18th century. These were a big imporovement over the sliding pawl since they could be left in the engaged position while heaving in. By fitting the pawl rack with twelve teeth, the range over which there was danger of back slip was halved and indeed if the pawls were out of phase with each , or there were more teeth , the danger of back slip could be further reduced.

 

  Another book which am sure many of you have, Peter Goodwin, The Sailing Man of War, also shows drop pawl's on a capstan in 1735, on page 146 and on another one in 1780, page 149, which so happens to be a 74 gun ship.   Kind of funny, not sure how many times I have looked at the pictures and never noticed the drop pawls  . 

Gary

Edited January 20, 2014 by garyshipwright