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HMS Montague/ Alfred class by Gary B - 74 gun ship built in 1779 (garyshipwright)

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Ok guys, figure it was time to rebuild my log on Montague. Might take a while but hopfully it will be back in full before to long. I also started it on Model ship builder which should give me some piece of mind. Hum seems it may take me a little bit to figure out how to get it started, with learning how to post photo's. Thank you. Gary

Edited by garyshipwright
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Hi Gary - Awesome - I was hoping you would repost that magnificent build!  I look forward to reaquainting myself with the fine lady.





Edited by BANYAN

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

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Thanks Pat. Seems I can' t figure out how to add photo's sir so it may be a short log indeed. :(  Well sir seems that I just figured it out. For those of you interested in Montagu History I have attach it to the build log. Plans coming up.  :10_1_10:  



Edited by garyshipwright
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Here is some photo's showing the plans that I am using to build Montagu/ Alfred class from. Just to give a little history on her building, she was started in the year 2000. The first two photo's are of the Alfred plans and the next three are the Montagu stern and bow. Seems that am not the quickest ship builder but to date she has been a joy to build and research. Now that I figure out how to post photo, just one question, is the a size limet to them? Seems am going to stick to the sizes I have used before, they seem to view better and take up less room.  The two framing plans Alfred and  Montagu seem to be the same but Montagu seems to have added a couple of cast timbers in her 1803 large repair which I think I can live with.  Gary






Edited by garyshipwright
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As most know, this 74 Montagu is a sister to Alfred and is being built up right and with her framing as it might of been done. Hopfully it won't take to long to get in to her.  Knowing that  Montagu plans, straight from the NMM are distort I drew up new water lines and frames to help me build her. I have added these drawings to this post. I didn't use cad as some of you do but just a good old pencil and one of those drafting machines. 




Edited by garyshipwright
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Your very welcome Ron and thank you Joe. Here are some photo's of her keel, stem, stern post and deadwood along with her apron and building board. A couple of the photo's show the templates that were used to construct the parts and pieces.











Edited by garyshipwright
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HI Gary,


Looking forward to the rebuild of your log. It is quite fun to simplify years of work into a shortened story. I have always enjoyed your project, with its close attention to detail, beautiful construction and exceptional research. Also, you have always been a number of steps ahead of me on a 74, and I see your work as an invaluable road map for what I will need to do next, with very helpful instruction.  Can't wait to see the Alfred again!


Best wishes,



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Gary, this are really great news. Your log at MSW 1.0 was a big inspiration for me and will be also in the new forum. :)

Regards Christian


Current build: HMS Triton, 1771 - reconstruction, build log

Current drawing projects: HM Cutter Rattlesnake/Alert, 1777;  HM Bomb Vessel Granado, 1742; HM Sloop Fly, 1775


"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." Salvador Dali

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Gary, great to see Alfred again!!!

All the best, Daniel

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Great to see Alfred back here at MSW again Gary.  Your log is an inspiration to many, many people.  As others have said, your attention to detail, research and explanations are superb.

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Thank you for taking the time and effort to get the log  back up on the site.  It has been a treat following it and would have been sad to miss out on upcoming progress.


PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

Current Builds - HMS Litchfield 1695 - Scratch 1:64 HMS Boston 1762 -Scratch 1:196


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Take a look here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/540-how-to-add-pictures-in-your-posts/  This might help with the pictures and getting things sorted out.

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans                             Triton Cross-Section   

                                                                                                                       USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War  _(Gallery) Build Log

                                                                                Wasa (Gallery)

                                                                                                                        HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               


Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         



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Thanks guys. Here is my story in pictures of how I built up Montagu hawse timbers. If you have any question please ask. To give one some ideal, the were attach to each other and also to the first cant frame and knight head and then as a assembly was taken off of her stem and sanded down to shape, on the outside and inside. Made it a whole lot easier  when it came to sanding the inside, thats for sure. Gary










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Thanks Ben. With the hawse timbers in place, now comes time for the fwd cant frames. As I was looking for photo's to redo the log, came across some that I don't even think I put on the old log. It shows the fitting of the cant frame's but using a jig that Longridge did when he was building his Victory, in his book, the Anatomy of Nelson's Ships. You can see his jig on page 40. Mine is just a little bit different but the credit belongs to him.  Also one thing you will notice is that the hawse timbers have been sanded down and are now  smooth on the inside. With the build up of the cant frames, things were faired as more cant frames were added.The jig also helped me get the bevels right on the cant's them self. What  you can't see on the templates is the markes for the aligning up the placement of the frames them self's.










Edited by garyshipwright
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Hi Guys. Here is another update on bringing the log along or at least a step closer to what it was. This time its about Montagu frames which was built up using some ideals from the shipwright's of old, such as the  wooden templates the used to shape and cut out the timbers that made up the frames, accept mine are paper. My frames are drawn on the wood and cut out piece by piece and glued together on top of the frame drawing's like in the photo's. If my memory can remember back that far it took about 1500 hundred pieces of wood to make all of her frames give or take a couple. Guess I should sat down and get a count of how many pieces there really was but after about 500 I stop counting. As you can see in the photo's the new water lines helped on a more accurated framing drawing and joint lay out. One item that you won't see is chock's because most frames was built up not using them. I did in fact build a few frames with them but most do not have them. One might ask, what about strength, which is why one glues frames back to back to help strengthen the joints. My frames came out very strong but when it came to the framing I didn't want to take any chances so any time I sanded on the frames, i add tempory ribbands to support the frames along with shimmens glued between the two frames  which was later removed. Any question just ask away. Gary


Just a addition to Montagu frames. Being that I didn't go by Montagu frames sizes on the plan,  I use a 74 gun contract that was written in 1781 to give me the sizes of the frame timbers. When others  in the future  build their own 74. Just remember this is full size measurement.



Frame. It being of the utmost Consequence to the strength of the ship,that all the timbers of the frame should as much as possible be preserved from being cut by the ports on each deck, a disposition for that purpose is made on the said draught, and as a further means to obtain it, the said timbers appointed to make the sides of the ports being continued up to the top of the side, are to be framed in bends, 1ft, 2d, 3d and 4th futtocks and top timbers together as distinguished on the draught and fastened with three bolts of 1 1/4 inches in each scarph, and that the first futtocks bebe bolted to the respective floors of every bend, with 3 bolts of 1 1/4 inches diameter, that the stations of the said frames so distinguished, are to be preserved with great exactness, and for such of them as stand afore and abrest the square, and are to be canted, these also are to keep their stations, at the breadth, and what is required to give the fashion piece and beakhead timbers a proper flight , or cant, according to the turn of the body, should be done b reducing the room and space on the side of the keel and as by this disposition of the frames in their several stations, they are respectively appointed to make the sides of every gun deck port, and one side of every upper deck ports is at once provided for by them, as one 4th futtock and one top timber proper will make the side of every gun deck port, one top timber proper, and either a 4th futtock continued up, when can be got of a length will make the said side of such upper deck port is to be made by the top timber which come under the port, being formed in a cast over the 4th futtock head, and run , taking care that the said cast be so disposed that it be not cut of as to hurt the timber by the lower cell of the port, or as shall be directed. And as all ships should be kept as light as possible in her upper works, consistent with the service required of them, so the frame should not be incumbered with a timber more than is necessary for the several offices for which they may be wanted, and two short timbers and by no means more sided as the lower end 11 inches, and at the upper deck 9 1/2 inches, stands upon the cell of every gun deck port, properly place to receive an upper deck standard, quarter deck port or such other service necessary to their stations, and there be also 2 short timbers admitted to stand on the cell of every upper deck port sided 10 inches at the lower, and 9 inches at the upper end, which, with such as are nesassary to make the gallery doors from the quarters, make the sides of the quarter deck ports, filling inbetween the formost frame and Hawse pieces, the whole ship's frame will be sufficiently full , every purpose answered, and not the least occasion for more, every frame bend to be separated with pieces of dry oak in wake of the bolts for bolting the frames together, or as shall be directed.


Floor timbers. Between 3 and C the were sided 1 foot 4 inches and from 3 to 15 aft and from C to N forward they were sided 1foot 2 1/2 inches, and from there aft and forward 1 foot 1 1/2 inches and in wake of the half timbers o feet 11 inches or as the space of the cant timbers will admit. To be in length 26 feet and afore and abaft as the draught directs. No chocks to be larger on any floor timbers than will admit of 1 foot 4 inches whole wood below the cutting down in the midship, and afore and abaft to increase as the shape of the timber may require for strength, and to be moulded at the heads 1 boot 1 /1/2 inches, and afore and abaft the frame, every other floor timber to be bolted through the main keel and bolts carefully clenched before the false keel is put under, by bolts of 1 1/2 inches in diameter.


Lower Futtocks. In the midships from timber N to 12 inclusive to sided 1 foot 2 1/2 inches, from N to the foremost floor forward and from 12 to the aftermost floor aft to be sided 1 foot 1 1/2 inches, and in wake of the half timbers according to the room and space, the cant timbers allow, that the said futtocks run down to the deadwood, and not to have less than 6 inches whole wood there, to have chocks across on the heels of them to supply the wood that my be wanting from thence, to the cutting down on inside of the floor timbers, and that they scarph on the second futtock in midships 7 feet 0 inches, and afore and abaft 5 feet 8 inches, or agreeable to what is offered on the draught, and to be in and out, or moulded at the heads 12 3/4 inches.


Second Futtocks. The Second Futtocks to be sided between timber N and 14 inclusive in the said draught, 1 foot 1 1/2 inches, from thence forward and aft 1 foot 1 inches, or in wake of the cant timber , according to what is required from the room and space of them, to have 7 feet 0 inches scarph in the midships to the third futtocks, and afore and abaft as expressed on the draught , and to moulded at the heads 12 1/4 inches, not to have less than 3 1/2 inches whole wood at the heels of double futtocks, and half timbers afore and abaft.


Third Futtocks. The third futtocks to be sided 1 foot 1 inches, to give scarph to the fourth futtocks in midship 7 feet 0 inches, and not less than 5 feet 8 inches afore and abaft, that those timbers that come under the gun deck ports run up to the cell, and to me moulded at the run of the third futtock heads 11 5/8 inches and in and out at the gun deck 11 1/2 inches.


Fourth Futtock. The Upper or fourth futtocks in the midships to be sided 1 foot 1 inches, to have scarph to the top timbers in midships 11 feet 6 inches and not less than 9 feet 6 inches, afore and abaft, and to be moulded, or in and out at the range of the upper deck waterways 10 1/2 inches, that all those appointed to make the sides of the gun deck and upper deck ports, be well grown young strong timber, free from sap or wain, and as the bigness of the gun deck port is 3 feet 5 inches fore and aft, and the room and space of the frames on each side of them 5feet 5 inches, there must remain full 12 inches timber from the moulding side of each fourth futtock or top timber to the side of the port, after the port is trimmed out to the bigness, and there fore great care is to be observed that such as are appointed to make the sides of ports conform in their sidings accordingly, that when the port is formed to its bigness fore and aft, not the least sap or wain to be found in the timber in wake thereof, and that all such as come in the wake of the main and fore channels, or that make the sides of the gun or upper deck ports run up to the top of the side, or at least and many of them as can be got, and that none of those that make the sides of the gun deck ports be less then 3 feet 0 inches square timber, above the upper cell of the gun deck port.


Top Timbers. The top timbers in Midships to run down to the lower edge of the upper strake of the gun deck clamps, to be sided at the heel and at the upper futtock heads 0 feet 13 inches , and at the top of the side 0 feet 10 1/2 inches, except such as are appointed to make the sides of the upper deck ports, which ae to be continued the same bigness as below, or according to the room there is for them, and for those top timbers that are by being frames to make the sides of gun deck ports, the same care to be observed in respect to their bigness sideways, between the mouldings of the frames and the side of the port,, as has been mentioned of the upper futtocks and that those which are to make the sides ofr the upper deck ports, instead of such fourth futtocks as cannot run up to do that office, and requires to have a cast over the fourth futtock heads to clear itself of the side of the port for that purpose, to take care that it be well grown to form the said cast, and the cast disposed of proper to the height of the port, that the timber may not be wounded thereby, and not the least sap or wain be left remaining in the top timber in the wake of the gun deck and upper deck ports, when the ports are trimmed out, and the whole to be well grown young strong timber, and moulded at the top of the side at the run of the ribband at the top timber breadth in midships 5 1/2 inches, abaft 5 5/8 inches, and at the beakhead 6 1/4 inches, and at the fiferail from the second drift to the stern timber to moulded 4 1/2 inches, and from the drift forward in wake of the timber heads 5 1/2 inches, the frame to be disposed of agreeable to a drawing that will accompany the sheer draught.










Edited by garyshipwright
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Thanks Mark and druxey. Here is another up date and this time we go deep in to the hull of the Montagu Once all of the sanding and fairing on the hull was done, now it was time to add some strength to the frames other then the tempory ribbands. In this set of photo's one will  see the thickstuff laid out on the joints of the frames along with the orlop and gun deck clamp. It also shows that the main mast step, keelson and the limber stakes were also added. One will  see the breast hooks which was made of pear fitted at the bow, but I really didn't like the dark color of them so they were changed out to boxwood, as you can see in the one photo. Enjoy the photo's guys.







Edited by garyshipwright
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Thanks Joe. Hopfully I will have it caught back up in the next two weeks, at least thats the plan. Of couse it could take me a little longer. I just purchase another great Byrnes tool. This time his disk sander. Been wanting one of those puppies every since he came out with it 5 years ago. Jim forgive me if its been longer. Just might keep me in the shop, making saw dust. :dancetl6:  :dancetl6:  :dancetl6:  :dancetl6:  :dancetl6:  Gary

Edited by garyshipwright
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Hi Gary,


Great to see you back. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been missing your work on Alfred, but it just hasn't been the same here on MSW without it. Good luck with the reconstruction.



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