Swift by adivedog - Artesania Latina - 1:50 - First build

[themadchemist]

I agree, Nice work John...and I think with the compound curvature of the deck that the newer kit may be harder to place, as the opening for below deck would seem to make the deck want to deform more.

The gluing of the deck was the only place I resorted to CA glue due to issues with getting it to stay down. I also had asymmetry issues so I guess that is par for the course.

[adivedog]

Thanks guys.

 

I planked the main deck last night and have been having a brain freeze ever since.  I ran the planks the full length, and liked the way it looks.

Then I started to over think it. In the early 1800's they would have had to nail the planks, so thought maybe I should go ahead and put in butt joints. I've looked at several build logs and the way they were done. One had ( I think way to many joints) another none. So, haven't decided what to do yet. If they nailed the planks they sure didn't have a false deck so would have had to nail them where the bulkheads were under the planks. If i used just the bulkheads that run across under the deck, there would only be three butt joints running all the way across. The picture on the box shows the planks running full length with no joints, but figure that was just to show a finished model.

 

If I stained it with the stain I used on the lower decks it wouldn't make any difference as dark as it is.

 

I'm going to go out in the garage and make a template of the deck using the cut out and see what I can come up with. Will post some pictures later.

[themadchemist]

Your asking the wrong builder this question as I used no butt joints and striped my planking using Ramin and Cherry. I didn't nail either.... but then I'm a rule breaker 
 
This may help though, I finally decided to stripe the deck because it made me feel good. Ultimately you are the captain of your build and after weighing all the different approaches, go with your gut and don't let anyone tell you it's wrong. It may not be historically correct or mechanically correct but if it suits you, that is what matters most of all. Let your build show the personality of you the builder.


The easiest thing to be in the world is you. The most difficult thing to be is what other people want you to be. Don't let them put you in that position.
---Leo Buscaglia
 

[adivedog]

Don't worry, I'll look things over for a while and go with the route I like best. 

 

Thanks

Edited August 23, 2014 by adivedog

[adivedog]

I made the layout of the deck and put the butt joints in. Still uncertain as to what I'll do. I like the different shades of basswood on the deck. Am leaning towards, just leaving it as is. Will wait until tomorrow and decide for sure, after these thunderstorms get out of here.

 

 

[russ]

John:

On your deck planking layout, one thing to keep in mind is that there would not have been any butt joints inside the width of the hatches etc.

 

Russ

[adivedog]

Russ,   That's one of the reasons I was having trouble deciding what to do.

 

I've decided to leave it as is and now will test some of the stains and see what I like. Will finish the deck today and be ready for the fun.

[HIPEXEC]

Looks like you're off and running very nicely. Nice work.

[Gabek]

Nice work, divedog.

I found out much later about deck planking practices but had already made a perfect stagger of butt joints which looked great...for a house carpenter laying down flooring! I believe that ship builders tried to use as long a piece as possible up to 8 or 10 feet (I can't give you the exact number right now, I'm on a road trip and don't have access to my references.) Like Russ said, the span between the hatches would not have any joints. I planked my second plank-on-frame like this (no build log yet) and like the look. It makes a lot of sense.

 

Your idea to wait on indicating the butts and nails is pretty good. I would ignore the bulkheads for now. Later you will install stanchions for the bulwarks and they would represent the tops of the frames. At that time you can add the butt joints if you wish and align them with the stanchions. I did it the reverse way and later didn't like how the stanchions lined up to the butt joints. So, at the bow, my butt joints and stanchions don't line up well.

 

With respect to nails...deck planks were drilled with counter sinks to recess the heads, filled with wood plugs and caulked. They would also line up the grain of the plugs with tgat of the planks. So, sometimes it's hard to even see the nails. The choice then is to either put dots or circles or nothing. I didn't bother, liking the look of clean lines. I have seen museum models use every combination.

 

As Keith said, this is your baby. I can commiserate about all the decisions. I think I researched for two weeks about what knot to use in one part of my rigging. I actually enjoy that part of the hobby a lot. Welcome to wooden model ship building!

 

Regards,

Gabe

[adivedog]

Thanks Rich

 

Gabe, thanks for the info that is good to know about the grain of the plugs.  That makes sense now that you mention it. I was wishing I was somewhere I could look at some older ships and see what they actually did.  I was on the Constitution many years ago when I was in the Navy, but can't remember much about it. ( Not serving on it )

 

 

As for my build, I left it as is, and found some stain I liked. Stained it yesterday.  It's a brown stain, not too dark not too light. Will post photo some time today.

 

I am going to start planking today. Just made a plank soaking station out of some 3/4"  PVC pipe, so am off to the garage. 

[adivedog]

Heres a picture of the main deck stained. There must be quite a difference in the density of the wood, as the stain really soaked into some areas more than others. But that will give it some character.

 

 

The planks for the hull were too long for anything I had in the garage to soak in, so made a soaker out of PVC plastic pipe. Then made a cap for the end to push the plank all the way into the water. When the cap is taken off the end of the plank floats out of the pipe.

 

 

 

Have spent the last couple of days fairing the frames. Also had to shim frame 7 on both sides then sand to size. Also, had to shim the top of frame 4 to even out the main deck. Which meant, using alcohol to loosen the deck then sliding in the shim and re glueing.

 

Edited August 28, 2014 by adivedog

[russ]

John:

I always use shorter planks and I soak those under running water one at a time. The planks I use are never more than maybe 6-8 inches long.

 

Your tube set up is a good idea though.

 

Russ

Edited August 28, 2014 by russ

[themadchemist]

I use a 1/2 gallon mason jar for soaking, country people have country ways. I think pretty much any type of soaking will work except for ebony. I found it takes boiling and immediate clamping in a forming jig to shape it. Boy was that an experience.

 

Nice deck colour, not to dark and with some nice character. I love that sometimes wood has so much variation in its color when finished. Even just tung oil seems to bring out the grain variation and colouring.

[adivedog]

Thanks Russ,  I guess it would be easier working with the shorter planks. I did think about trying to use some shorter planks in some areas. We'll see. Thats pretty amazing though. I'll find out soon as I started putting on the top planks this morning.

 

Keith,  how tall is that mason jar ?  The good thing about the pvc,  it holds a small amount of water and keeps it hot for quite a while. I only soaked the planks for 5-10 min. when testing it yesterday. Then tested the hair straightener I bought at a dollar store. It worked great. Wish I had some hair I could use it on.

[themadchemist]

The 1/2 gallon jars are about 10" - 12" tall, taller then a Qt.

I thought about building a PVC device but the jar was handy as we do a lot of canning.

 

I can't help you with the hair problems, sorry I'm in the same boat.

[adivedog]

Got the two top planks on today. In order to bend the planks, I tried two methods. One was soaking and using a large hose clamp and the second was to use a hair straightener. Got the straightener at a dollar store for about $15. This was by far the best way. Had to wait overnight for the clamp piece to dry, the straightener dried it as it went, and was pretty easy and quick.

[adivedog]

Oops, hit post instead of more options.

 

Heres the clamp method. The bend was great, just takes too long.

 

 

 

Heres the straightener

 

 

 

Just turn it on, set to medium, press together and pull toward the bend and done.

 

Top plank glued on. Spiled the planks at the bow.  Used ca to attach to frame, pva for the fillers.

 

 

Ran the line down about 3mm below top of frames.  Just got back from checking on it, and found the larboard plank at the bow was too high, so just fixed that. Now both side are even.  Will tackle the garboard tomorrow.

This may turn out to be more fun than I thought.

Edited August 29, 2014 by adivedog

[themadchemist]

Looking Good John

and this "WILL" turn out to be more fun then you thought.

 

Just a few thoughts

You will find as you work your way down the planking, that the bending will take less time then the shaping involved in the narrowing of the planks and the beveling of the edges so the planks sit flush against each other. It you have access to a syringe, they make great and fast glue applicators and its easy to blunt the tip with a file, by filing a notch and breaking off the tip. I say this as I would suggest running a bead of PVA between plank edges so the planks are attached to each other as well as the frames.

 

If you can't find access to a syringe.... Tammy works in an OR and has access to unused left overs they pitch. The 10ml control syringes with finger loops are nice and when capped the glue keep indefinitely like in a bottle. Just send a PM if needed. 

 

Congrat's on the first plank, now prepare for a nice twist on that garboard

 

Also, are you planning to use a planking fan to mark the plank thicknesses on the bulkhead's. IIRC I did that after getting the top and garboards on. I found this invaluable for shaping and narrowing each plank. Taking the extra time to do the first planking  well, I discovered that 2nd planking really just is more work.

My San Francisco kit, which is one of the ones that comes with double planking... after the second planking I purchased wood to single plank it and save the hassle of planking twice. The newer kit comes single planked and I've seen some beautiful planking jobs (Randy's come to mind - AKA lamarvalley)

[adivedog]

I'm working on the garboard and 2nd plank. Nothing glued yet, but would like some other input as to what I'm thinking of doing.

 

I tried the rounded end on the garboard like Keith did but was having trouble fitting #2 without a lateral bend. So this morning I used a more spile like cut on garboard and used cut a 6.5 mm wide piece of basswood, then cut it to 5mm except for the end which is notched to fit the garboard. Then no lateral bend.

The only thing I think needs to be changed is to cut a wider plank so the end that is notched will go up a little farther keeping the rest at 5mm.

 

Any ideas ?

 

Stopped #2 in the middle of #5

 

 

After the 2nd plank is fitted, will mark of the frames for the rest.

[russ]

John:

Without the keel and stem in place it is difficult for me to see what needs to be done. I would say that the notch is going to be a problem because younhave that open space forward of the notch to be filled in.

 

Russ

[themadchemist]

The issues with the way your doing it, from what I can see is that the bow is crowding very quickly. That's not a problem if you are planning to drop planks.
Its really a philosophical thing. Meaning it's your choice.
 
I found the second lower plank the hardest to fit. I ended up taking a file to the garboards edge and sanding the edge so that it came to a point on the center making sure the plank line remained straight. I then forced a pretty hefty lateral bend in the second plank up.
 
Here's the amount of edge bend in #2, it doesn't look like much but its enough.


here it is glued, notice it stops at the first bulkhead


here's the pair glued up.


Notice, here I have the first 3 lower planks and have only advanced up the stem about as far as you are with just the second plank.


That's just to illustrate how I did it, not to say that is the "right" or the only way. Remember, my goal was to plank with no dropped planks, which forced me to really conserve bow spacing. I actually did 1 dropped plank per side on the second planking for the experience of it.

[russ]

John:

The bow ends of the planks definitely need tapering to avoid having them take up too much space along the bow. This is one reason I advocate marking the planks widths on the hull beforehand so you can see where the tapering needs to be done.

 

Russ

[themadchemist]

Hey John

 

Russ is right. This kit kind of has a backwards way of having you kind of force the look, as there is no keel, stem or rabbet.

 

Looking at your first picture closer I see that passed the 2nd bulkhead, your keel/center-bulkhead hasn't been shaped/tapered to a point. Notice on mine the garboards touch each other down until about bulkhead 5, which is about where the garboard twist happens. I did this by sanding/fairing the center line. This will also move the garboards up and make them meet the stem farther back. 

 

Again, I'm only pointing out where yours differs from mine. I'm not saying your wrong, just pointing out what worked for me.

 

By the way 2 control syringes are in the post, so hopefully they will arrive Tuesday.

 

Isn't all this fun. I remember asking Russ a lot of questions about this stage and back then I didn't understand how much this kit is NOT how the planks hit the keel/stem in a real build. I'll celebrate 2 years in this hobby in Nov and I still am amazed at how far I've come and by how much farther I still have to go.

[adivedog]

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to mark the frames and restart. Actually, I haven't really started though, just practicing.

 

I see what your both saying about the taper on the bow end of the planks.

 

I may have to get the grog out for this

[themadchemist]

Just a word on whether you've started or are restarting - practice counts as having started..., so does the grog.... That's why its called a HOBBY

[adivedog]

Keith, as to the fan, hadn't thought of that. i was going to put a piece of tape on the frames to measure down each frame then divide by 5 (mm)

 

I'll check the forum to find a template for the fan and see better how it works. I have seen it used but didn't pay enough attention to see how it works.

[GuntherMT]

 

I'll check the forum to find a template for the fan and see better how it works. I have seen it used but didn't pay enough attention to see how it works.

 

It can be found here - http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-framing-and-planking-articles.php

[themadchemist]

I used a planking fan and marked frames even on the dinky holly and ebony longboat I build. It really helps to gauge your plank narrowing.

 

I don't think I'd plank without marks.

[adivedog]

Thanks Gunther, got it printed

[Dee_Dee]

Hi John, 

I have the Swift on the shelf and it might be my next build.  BobF did a great tutorial on planking on his 18th century longboat, very informative and lots of photos on how he did it.  He goes into using the fan, marking the hull, shaping the garboard strake, using the fan, shaping each plank and edge bending.  This helped me a lot. 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/1465-18th-century-longboat-by-bobf-ms-148-tri-club/page-2

Dee Dee