Rattlesnake/Cormorant 1780 by RevKB - Model Shipways - 1/64

[scott larkins]

those are looking pretty good.

[RevKB]

Thanks Scott, 

 

Today I installed the rest of the stern and shaped the counter to fit the windows, 

But I ran into a problem with the Knight head and timber head , none of the directions are clear and I have already cut the notches out of the bow fillers. Is the forecastle and deck rail supposed to fit up against the knight head?

 

Im looking around to other Rattlesnake build logs to see if anyone else had this issue.

 

In His dust kenny  

[JPett]

Ahoy Kenny

 

I pinned the forecastle deck trim to the tops of the bulkheads to align those parts. They both will act as supports for the wood when you plank here so look at them in that way  The knightheads come up to edge of the trim and the timberheads will pass through the holes. I did the timberheads first and then used them to better support the Deck trim to align the knightheads

 

If they're giving you a hard time "your not alone" 

[RevKB]

Thanks JPett,

I would have figured the directions here would have been more clear, so far this has been the biggest challenge, even as far as the blood curdling sound of a bulkhead POP!

Well here are some pics for todays confusion, i am pleased will the stern as it has turned out. For right now I think I will wait on gluing the stern on because it seams to me it will save ample time matching up the planks.

As for the timber and knight heads , you will notice i had only the diagram to go off of, and placed the knight head in the wrong place.So i came up with anothe solution that seems to work better for alignment.

Here we can see the flow of the windows into the counter, I plan on leaving this until after the plamnking is done so I can better shape the ends as they flow into the back side of the stern. Also thinking this may save some time.

Here was my first mistake, the knight heads were to far away from the keel and thus had to be removed and moved closer to the center false keel.

here I took Jpetts advice and pinned the forcatle covering board to find alignment . Now one thing I am going to have to figure out is my Knightsheads are to big to fit through the piece, so I am thinking I will have to make it and then glue it to the top of the beefy Knightshead I have in there. Im not overly upset as this area will be covered by planking and trim work. But I may need to be more careful as I would like my finished product to be stained. I would hate to have to paint this ship because I have to hide mistakes. Only time and the Lord knows. 

Edited October 29, 2014 by RevKB

[JPett]

Ahoy Kenny  

 

That will work; but just realize that you have a gunport there.

 

As far as directions go the ME ones are really good.. It is best to work from the plans 90% of the time and use the manual as a supplement.  It took me a while to get this. I think if they wrote out all the instructions it would be a 5 volume set and no one would read it. Everything is there in the plans, you just have to learn to read them. 

[RevKB]

Howdy Jpett, 

 

I do like the directions from MS but for this particular step they were all but useless. I have been looking over the blueprints and once again this step is way vague. but I guess thats what makes it fun 

In His dust kenny 

[JPett]

Ahoy Kenny

 

"lol"

 

Learning to read the plans is something that only comes with time. I am amazed now at what I wish I had seen earlier. 

 

There are actually 4 images of these parts in the plans. Three of which are on the sheet with the planking layout and include an image aptly named "Bow Pictorial View". It seems to be the way of the newbie shipwright that these images will only make sense after the fact. At least that's the way it was for me. 

 

As you progress you will see that a picture truly is worth a thousand words 

 

 

PS: In my second to last post I incorrectly named the parts. The knightheads come through the deck trim and the timberheads come up to it. So I installed the knightheads first. It really is amazing what you will see if you just look at the plans "lol" 

Edited October 30, 2014 by JPett

[scott larkins]

Kenny,  also keep in mind that you are going to have to thread the anchor rope through that area, so if these two pieces of wood are too thick you may have an issue there.  Mine were a little thicker but not so thick as to block the anchor rope.

[RevKB]

Thanks Guys for the input , last night i found myself trying to make these "work", they were not working .... so I took them out and will fill the holes with putty and go back to the original way the plans call for .

 

I was able to fashion knights heads that work through the forecastle piece. I will work on it some more and post what I have .

 

In His dust Kenny  

[JPett]

Ahoy Kenny 

 

Put half of them back in. Wood is always better then putty  

[RevKB]

Yea that was what I was planning on doing , Im feeling a little better about removing this when I realized that the forecastle bases were supposed to over lap the planking, that changed the whole outlook of what I had . Ill keep ya'all posted..... wait did I just slip from seaman to southern boy in one sentence?

In His dust kenny  

[RevKB]

Ok so after about 2 hrs of repairs, and a deep disire to work to the plans, here is what i accomplished.

 

I repaired the huge holes i made for the previous knights heads.

 

Next i had issue with the knights heads laying properly to allow the fo4castle bases to sit flush and easy . So i cut a notch where the forcastle bases sat and turned the knights so they would lay flush , while maintaining enough wood for strength.

 

All fit and glued together, im pretty happy with the results, it was worth the extra time. Also this way i can easily remove the forcastle bases for other fittings.

Edited October 31, 2014 by RevKB

[scott larkins]

Looks good.  Sometimes the extra work is worth it.

[RevKB]

Howdy All, I have had a busy few weeks here, Bow Hunting season has rolled around and the Lord has blessed me with two ample does for food this winter. yesterday rifle season opened and our Girls are coming home to hunt so that will be a blast. I have also been crazy busy at the church and working on a repair on a local barn.

Here I am with the corner post and support post in hanging the cross joist.The whole time I was working on it I was imagining working on the ship.

 

when I have been able to sneak in a few minutes on the old Rattlesnake I have made some good progress. Here are the resent improvements.

 

Here I soaked down the water boards and held them in place and let them dry, they dried great and held their shape well, making the gluing much easier

 

Then I measured the gun and ore ports and cut them and glued them on this piece of aluminum.

 when they dried I was able to sand and fit them into position.

I also added the extra support to the foredeck for the planking .

 

As of this posting I have completed all of the gun and ore ports and plan on placing at least 1 gun in the captains quarters and maybe even finishing off the captians area so I can leave the gun ports open to see the detail.

As for the over all flow of the ship I am pretty pleased with the hull thus far.

this is my ships log for week ending Nov 15 2014

In His dust RevKB 

Edited November 17, 2014 by RevKB

[RevKB]

Here zhe is with all the ports in. Not looking to bad

[scott larkins]

It's exciting to see how a ship comes together isn't it?  Looking good there.  Keep it up.

[RevKB]

Thanks Scott, As I work through this build I am feeling pulled to look into a plank on frame build.my youngest daughter and i play assisans cread and they had one area that a ship of the line was being built. That along with a few videos on youtube of full size replicas, has intrigued me. I am looking at diffrent ship plans now. Has anyone else considered this undertaking? And how did they go about it ?

[scott larkins]

I love assassins creed.  I've played them all and am working on the latest now.  How ironic that the one I'm playing is all about sailing a ship.  But now, I haven't gone to far into looking up much more.  Don't ever seem to have the time.

[RevKB]

Lol Scott, Im in the same boat, lots of fun to be had but seamingly no time to do it. Black flag is the one im playing also, but my daughter just bought part 3 and that takes place in revolutionary america and the ships are being built so you can r8n around on them , its way cool.

[JSGerson]

Just discovered and read your log today. As a fellow Rattler, welcome aboard. I've been working on my model for over 4 years now (I'm a real slow builder because this is my first POB build and knew nothing about ships). My model however is from the Mamoli kit, same scale but slightly different internal structure. In addition mine is kitbashed following Robert Hunt's Practicum. You've received some real good advice so far, I know it's helped me as well. A couple of books were recommended to you and I would like to add a few more. My reference library started from zero and has grown exponentially over the years.

• Rigging Period Ship Models, Lennarth Petersson
• The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625 - 1860, James Lee
• The Fully Framed Model, Vol. III and Vol. IV, David Antscherl

Looking forward to your future posts

 

Jonathan

[RevKB]

Thanks Jonathan I added those books to my Christmas list.

Well life and ministry has been super busy, but alas I was able to put the battens on the hull. After doing this and seeing the hulls lines i found that the thread idea would have worked easier and made adjustment simple. But for now i woill leave well enough alone.

you will notice my battens come to a common measurment in the stern and stem. As these are guides i wasnt overly conserned with their exactness, if they eere line i could have adjusted them to peffection but felt they were good enou th h.

 

Now as for the garbord strake I followed the lines on the plans precisely. I also transfered the measurements from the plans in the stem and stern, the only thing I am a liþle conserned with is i can only fit 5 strakes per section.

 

If anybody sees something that i may have missed please give a shout, i have gone through countless build logs on planking and read through all the tutorial s at least a dozen times

Edited December 1, 2014 by RevKB

[JPett]

Ahoy Kenny

 

I had 18 planks per side which is what the plan showed 

 

Are you including your battens. 15 +3 was 18 the last time i checked 

 

PS: The garboard should only come forward until it starts to curve up. Use the plank above it to get your measurement. I put the garboard in (no glue) and then temporarily lay the next plank above it. It will cross over the garboard in the bow. Pencil that and cut the garboard there. That should get you close 

 

She looks great

Edited December 1, 2014 by JPett

[RevKB]

Not sure, im in bed now but will look at it in the morning. The battens are only 3/32wide the strakes are 5/32wide. .

[JPett]

Ahoy Kenny 

 

The planks will only be full width on the fattest bulkheads. Did you use the paper and fan method or take those plank measurements another way. 

 

PS: Those battens should work on the stern too. If they don't get the sand paper out before you start planking 

 

Sweet dreams "lol" 

Edited December 1, 2014 by JPett

[scott larkins]

I echoe jpett's word of warning.  Watch that garboard piece.  It must not in anyway start to curve up.  It if does you will be screwed later on.  I suggest you put an eye along the top of the board and look down the board to make sure it does not bend up.

[RevKB]

Ok Guys , I took a paper and lined the bulkhead with the bottom line touching the top of the garboard strake  to the top of the wale is 75 mm. that divided by the 5mm wide strakes comes out to 15 strakes that plus the garboard comes to 16 total. 

As for the garboard strake I am only allowing it to rotate to fit into the space and not curve up, I laid  up the next strake to see how it would line up , so far it looked ok.

 

Im going to look at this some more before I move forward. Thanks for the input guy's

Edited December 2, 2014 by RevKB

[JPett]

Ahoy Kenny

 

Realize that you will be trimming the sides of the planks to prevent a gap as you cover this convex shape

 

 This means the side of the plank contacting the hull will not be the same width on the inside as it is on the outside. The planks are also 3/16 which is really  4.7mm and times 17 comes to 79.5 mm 

 

Another way to look at it is that by adding planks you will be increasing the Outside Diameter by the thickness of the planking. 

 

When you add the thickness of the wood to your 1/4 circle ( if you look at it this way) your 75mm OD now becomes a 78mm OD when measured with the planks installed: So you are actually closer then you think 

 

I only know this because I was here too  .  

Edited December 2, 2014 by JPett

[RevKB]

Thanks Jpett,I had totally forgot that i would have to measure to the center of the beam as i preceded around the convex. That helps alot, now assuming that the fan takes this into account, do i measure the gap between the battens and then transpose that to each individual bulkhead?

 

If that is the case then i am glad i removed the battens last night,, although it caused some light damage to some parts i had to go back and reglue.

 

In the future i would not recomend glueing tempoary battens , the string application works much easier.

[dgbot]

J.Pett thanks for the tp to add to my feeble brain.  I have always had problems with the garboard strake on certain hulls.  I replaced it about 5 times on a racing schooner I worked on years ago.  I wish I could remember the name and had the plans.  With MSW behind me I would have an easier time building the thing.  Very sharp entry and a pronounced deadrise made it a real b#%x%*tch to plank.  One of the few times I opted for a smooth hull and paint.

David B

Edited December 2, 2014 by dgbot

[JPett]

Ahoy Kenny

 

No the fan just gives you the width of your planks for a distance 

 

http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-framing-and-planking-articles.php

 

The fan is near the bottom but the page is a plethora of information  

 

This is what I know about battens 

 

First I have not completely figured them out. Your supposed to use them to check the bulkheads and confirmed they are sanded correctly. You will find a very small amount of sanding on Bulkhead "C", "D", or "E" will change where a plank will end up in the bow. Considering the crowding you can have here or the spiling that you might have to do this can adversely effect your fun. If you make these corrections correctly you will see that you can then use these battens to create three or more evenly spaced belts for you to plank. Its the "if" part that I still struggle with. All this also works the same in the stern. 

 

This is where i am at

 

After a light sanding. I take the widest bulkhead and use the fan to mark out all the planks. Then i do the same for the bow and stern. Next divide them into equal belts. Now I pin a batten on. Then see where it wants to go as it lies up against each bulkhead. I now know where it should go and if it doesn't I see if i can help it along with a slight change to one or more bulkhead. 

 

Marking the bulkheads is very important when you do this. Remember; you really only want to sand one side, For the bulkheads in the front half of the ship; it is the side facing the bow. The back side or side facing the stern of these bulkheads should be highlighted (I run a pencil along the edge) and not touched. You don't want to change the shape of the hull while making these corrections ****. You only want to change the way the bulkhead is tapered or "faired" and how the plank contacts it and in doing so, where it contacts the next one. How the batten or your plank lies on the bulkhead can be changed and in doing so, so will its path. As i said a small change on "E" can make a big difference on where your batten or plank will end up on the bow.  

 

****Really you will find you want to change the shape of the hull as little as possible and this is the conundrum. These kits are not perfect so when is it time to stop and spile. Sanding less is always better. Use caution if you go down this dark and very lonely road. This is the biggest post i have ever seen on this subject. Sorry if i hijacked your log a bit with it . 

 

 

PS: On the stern post you will find that planks needed are slightly wider then your wood. This is "OK" because these planks will sweep up and be cut at an angle greater or less then 90 degrees .  They sweep less on the bottom so this belt should be the slightly smaller then the ones above it. 

Edited December 3, 2014 by JPett