Frame Construction and placement

[LFrankCPA]

I am in the process of constructing the frames for my model and I need a little clarification, please.

 

In regard to the frames; the floor is on the 'back side' of the frame and the 1st futtock is on the 'front side' of the frame???????

 

In regard to the placement of frames on the keel: does the floor face toward or away from the 'dead flat'????

 

Thanks, in advance, to all.

Larry

[trippwj]

Larry -

 

Which ship are you building?  The nation, era and type of ship can change the correct answer.  From your description, it sounds like you are building a double framed ship. 

 

here is one example of what the framing in about 1711 for a British warship would look like - based on Sutherland (source is Kenchington, Trevor, 1993.    The Structures of English Wooden Ships: William Sutherland's Ship, circa 1710 The Northern Mariner 3(1): 1-43). 

 

[LFrankCPA]

I'm sorry, you are right, I should have included a few more items of description. I am modeling HMS Alfred at 3/16", 1780 era; sister frames Huhan (sic) method.

Hope this help a little more.

Larry

Edited October 17, 2014 by LFrankCPA

[LFrankCPA]

I knew I had read about this somewhere and I finally found it.

Goodwin; Man of War; page 22; "All the frames forward of the dead=flat were set so that the floors formed the fore face of the complete or main frame, whereas those aft of the dead=flat had their floors aft."

 

So am I correct in that all the floors faced "away" from the dead-flat??? or did all the floors face "away" from the bow????

 

Can I get more than just one reply; or am I doing something wrong when posting on this site????

 

Thanks,
Larry

[allanyed]

Larry,

 

Look at the framing disposition drawing of the Alfred at the NMM collections site. http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/80355.html    It is not the clearest resolution, but far forward it is evident the floors are on the forward side of the paired frames and on the aft side moving aft of the deadflat.  You can enlarge it, save and download, and enlarge even more, but it does get fuzzy.  Look at Gary Bishops Alfred build.  I am not sure you can see this in his earliest photos, but I imagine he would be happy to answer your questions if you post or PM him.  His framing is based on the actual framing disposition but is a wealth of information for anyone building the Alfred.

 

Allan

[garyshipwright]

Hi Larry.

Just to let you know if your building Alfred doing it Hahn way then your be framing her the French way. English ships framing at that time were built using bends, two frames whose floor and first futtock's touched but in between was filled in with filling frames, a frame built up of first futtocks, third futtocks and top timbers, or floors, second futtocks and fourth futtocks. On Alfred, her dead flat frame was made up of first futtocks with floors on both sides. As they went fwd you would have a first futtock followed by a floor and going aft you would have a first futtock follwed by a floor. Have included a photo showing Alfred in frame. A good book which will be a big help is Peter Goodwin Sailing Man of War will help fill in the gaps on how the framing was done depending on the time frame. Any more question sir and will be more then happy to answer them.

Gary

[LFrankCPA]

Thanks for the replies Allan and Gary. I think the Hahn method is debated here constantly. I would rather just call it the Hahn Method. I will be glad to just get the frames in. This is the second time I have attempted this. The first time I guess I simply did not give enough attention to that; as my build progressed, things only got worse. I know better now and will do better.

Thanks again for your troubles.

Larry