Thistle17

Thanks for your input everyone. As I am driven to get on with my Cheerful I am moving in a few directions while waiting for replies. Even though the stock is only 3/64 box I lowered the blade below a cut through level. Then raised the blade to cut through on the next pass. It ripped the stock without resistance and uniformly. It may be the blade is starting to dull and heating up and flexing (at this point I half believe that). I did check the fence parallelism and the out feed relief of the fence. As a matter of practice I put slight pressure on the fence at that point when tightening it down. It may also be the rake angle of the saw teeth, it occurs to me as I write this so I will experiment with blade height a bit more. I have a note out to Jim Byrnes to see what he thinks  but will follow up and purchase some thicker blades for ripping.
 
There is an answer to this problem so I will keep at it until solved.
Joe

Paul I plan to follow your build progress. I acquired the Florida Shapie Fishing Schooner that is recorded on this site. Panel #33 is where I finished off about a year ago. Still some rigging to do and a case. I acquired it from the estate of a fellow modler who found it in n antique shop about 5 years ago. The model is scratch and is done equistely so I am challenged to achieve the quality it deserves. David Bennett of the NC Museum sent me some pictures of rigging of models in his collection you may wish to study. The rigging of these vcessels is relatively simple but there are some gaff hauls that I have yet to find a home for since there are no logical termination points but at the masts.
Joe

Paul I plan to follow your build progress. I acquired the Florida Shapie Fishing Schooner that is recorded on this site. Panel #33 is where I finished off about a year ago. Still some rigging to do and a case. I acquired it from the estate of a fellow modler who found it in n antique shop about 5 years ago. The model is scratch and is done equistely so I am challenged to achieve the quality it deserves. David Bennett of the NC Museum sent me some pictures of rigging of models in his collection you may wish to study. The rigging of these vcessels is relatively simple but there are some gaff hauls that I have yet to find a home for since there are no logical termination points but at the masts.
Joe

Paul I plan to follow your build progress. I acquired the Florida Shapie Fishing Schooner that is recorded on this site. Panel #33 is where I finished off about a year ago. Still some rigging to do and a case. I acquired it from the estate of a fellow modler who found it in n antique shop about 5 years ago. The model is scratch and is done equistely so I am challenged to achieve the quality it deserves. David Bennett of the NC Museum sent me some pictures of rigging of models in his collection you may wish to study. The rigging of these vcessels is relatively simple but there are some gaff hauls that I have yet to find a home for since there are no logical termination points but at the masts.
Joe

Paul I plan to follow your build progress. I acquired the Florida Shapie Fishing Schooner that is recorded on this site. Panel #33 is where I finished off about a year ago. Still some rigging to do and a case. I acquired it from the estate of a fellow modler who found it in n antique shop about 5 years ago. The model is scratch and is done equistely so I am challenged to achieve the quality it deserves. David Bennett of the NC Museum sent me some pictures of rigging of models in his collection you may wish to study. The rigging of these vcessels is relatively simple but there are some gaff hauls that I have yet to find a home for since there are no logical termination points but at the masts.
Joe

Paul I plan to follow your build progress. I acquired the Florida Shapie Fishing Schooner that is recorded on this site. Panel #33 is where I finished off about a year ago. Still some rigging to do and a case. I acquired it from the estate of a fellow modler who found it in n antique shop about 5 years ago. The model is scratch and is done equistely so I am challenged to achieve the quality it deserves. David Bennett of the NC Museum sent me some pictures of rigging of models in his collection you may wish to study. The rigging of these vcessels is relatively simple but there are some gaff hauls that I have yet to find a home for since there are no logical termination points but at the masts.
Joe

A number of things have kept me away from modeling that I seem to have no control over. However recently I have been able to carve out some time to proceed further with the rigging. This model has some very straight forward rigging and in no way compares to the challenges of say a 5th rate ship of the line. Having said that it certainly continues to present its own subtle resistance to me. Given the age of the model, which is somewhere in the 70 years of age range, is very fragile. Glue joints separate seemingly at will and metal fittings (which are scratch) break at the slightess touch. The other obstacle has been the exquisite execution of the original modeler.
 
I had started out with a conservetorship mentality in the restoration. Having been at it for some time now I realize I was a bit naive! I have been challenged in coming up with like materials in terms of gauge, size and material as the original modeler used a mix of ferrous and non ferrous material. Gaff and boom bands for example were hand made and wrapped around these elements and soldered at some point. The gauge of the metal is less than 0.031! The holes for attachment of hooks or shackles are incredibly minute. In another example, his/her hand made shackles are of size and gauge I just cannot match. I have some (working) ones that broke that are approximately 0.125 in size!!!!!
 
In rigging the model I am convinced that the modeler was interrupted in the process. I say this as some deck furniture was not secured to the deck, and given that some terminations were to the main cabin for example, permanent rigging could not have been accomplished. I also find that some rigging is missing. Missing meaning it was never applied. I have had to consult with Reuel Parker who is a sharpie expert and David Bennett of the NC Maritime Museum to gather enough information to proceed.
 
So with this new found humility I have continued the rigging and have forgiven myself as I find the need to compromise. For example, in the attached picture the main and fore gaff had shackles of the size I described connected to the mid section of each element for hauling. I have reattached them with 'S" hooks in place of shackles. They are carefully "crimped" and in appearance only the most astute eye would recognize this transgression.
 
The rigging is about 70% complete. I had originally intended to add furled sails but have decided against this as I reason there will be an incongruity of that presentation with the base I am making which at this moment will be an "out of the water" depiction. We will see if that is indeed the fianl word.
 
Those vertical posts on the aft end of the main and for boom/gaff setups are temporary rigging aids.
 
Joe

Paul I plan to follow your build progress. I acquired the Florida Shapie Fishing Schooner that is recorded on this site. Panel #33 is where I finished off about a year ago. Still some rigging to do and a case. I acquired it from the estate of a fellow modler who found it in n antique shop about 5 years ago. The model is scratch and is done equistely so I am challenged to achieve the quality it deserves. David Bennett of the NC Museum sent me some pictures of rigging of models in his collection you may wish to study. The rigging of these vcessels is relatively simple but there are some gaff hauls that I have yet to find a home for since there are no logical termination points but at the masts.
Joe

Any progress Paul?
Joe

My two cents on profile scrapers. I have found that, at least on boxwood, if I create a slight burr on one side of the profile it does a better job that a cleaner or back beveled edge. I tried this as that is the way I prepare my tradional scappers for woodworking. Also I have found what works for me at least is to mill sheet material to the desired width of the molding and then create the profile on the edge and rip those off the sheet.
Joe

Thinking back to when such a technique was not available one has to admire those builders of "yesterdays"models. You continue to refine laser fabrication each time you advance this build. Your techniques put this project within reach of so many more of us than was possible in these past few years. I hope everyone appreciates your engineering efforts.
Joe

I am stalled on working this endeavor as I am remodeling a first floor work area in our house for both my wife's art works and my model building. In doing so I had to move some 1970 ish model kits from a well known US manufacturer. It was striking to open the box of Rattlesnake and examine the dormant kit. I mused to myself, in today's light,  that the kit should go to the "auction block" or elsewhere.
 
Indeed the industry has come a long way in nearly 50 years especially so in the last 10 or so. But Chuck, I think I speak for all modelers when I say you have advanced this wonderful "passion" to a level that may not be achievable in a full production environment. And it is hard to see how it can be surpassed! You are truly gifted and the fact that you share your gifts is remarkable.
 
Joe
 

I attendd a session of the Modelswrights of Niagara yesterday and was made aware of this procedure. I am about to go through this procedure on my Byrnes saw which was upgraded with the wider table top. I shared the very problems you all relate and I have a drawer full of tortured blades due to the misalignment of the fence. As I think back this all became a problem when the table top was replaced. Of course I was not aware of this procedure. I will feedback my experience for others.
Joe

I attendd a session of the Modelswrights of Niagara yesterday and was made aware of this procedure. I am about to go through this procedure on my Byrnes saw which was upgraded with the wider table top. I shared the very problems you all relate and I have a drawer full of tortured blades due to the misalignment of the fence. As I think back this all became a problem when the table top was replaced. Of course I was not aware of this procedure. I will feedback my experience for others.
Joe

I attendd a session of the Modelswrights of Niagara yesterday and was made aware of this procedure. I am about to go through this procedure on my Byrnes saw which was upgraded with the wider table top. I shared the very problems you all relate and I have a drawer full of tortured blades due to the misalignment of the fence. As I think back this all became a problem when the table top was replaced. Of course I was not aware of this procedure. I will feedback my experience for others.
Joe

An imaginative variation of the machinist 'V" block where the hold down always seems to be in the way. Great design of the clamps. It seems easily transferable to a wooden version for those not into machining non ferrous material.
Joe

I am sorry somehow I did not look close enough at themachining  method as I seemed to think it was a laser. So another comment is that I had some blow out on the fback side of the material from the router cutter. I had to add some "face material to that side for those that became "cheeks" of gun ports. It turned out that the .015 material thickness deficit became a non problem when compared to the drawings as I used .015 AYC.
Joe

Welcome to the group 'Archie"! I too took the route of fabricating my own bulkheads and "strong back". However I chose a CNC router route. It did not go well for a number of reasons.  A couple of cautions. I did not have the witness marks for the gun ports added in. I hand scribed them using the drawings. Are your bulkheads laser cribed? Secondly the drawings depict 1/4" bulkheads. The material I used was .015 thinner. Where this showed up was in the transom area. Chuck has cleverly designed the transom assembly parts so when assembled yield a well registered framework. Check your work carefully and if you go to "Stuntflers" build you will see he had to build out the last bulkheads to align correctly as they were .015 shy as well. These are just cautions that I learned the hard way.
Joe

Indeed Gleen virtually impossible to get all the char off given the thickness of the stock and the "dwell" time of the laser. I too had to call it a day before i went too far.
Joe

You are a brave and determined heart! I too gave up on my first build of Winchelsea after too many compromises. I started with my own frames, strongback etc and although relatively sucessful error started to creep in and things went slowly downhill from there. I am poised to start again but your restart is impressive. I will surely follow your journey! Joe

Fine model! Fine woodworking! They do work together don't they!
Joe

A re-enforcing comment. My Essex kit is about 28 inches long and has a two part false keel. For a demo I assembled it using an Ed Tosti like gantry jig for this specific purpose. The keel members were flat to begin with. After assembling 20 of the bulkheads one could notice a slight twist to the false keel. This could only be trued by inserting the stiffeners (3/8 X 1/4 beams on each side of the keel) into the precut notches of  19 of the 22 bulkheads. Even multi layer Baltic Birch ply will warp slightly just sitting on a flat surface in my low humidity shop accumulating moisture unevenly (on the top side vs the bottom).
 
Having built a few houses in my time if you do not get the foundation true you will constantly be correcting, and living with the results, all they way to the roof top.
Joe

Hard to believe it was 2019 when I ventured out on this project. The skeletal work was completed during that period. It was put aside for other projects including the Florida Sharpie restoration, the Laura Goulart repairs (hard to consider that a restoration) and of course the Mark I PBR. I picked up this project in more ernst in the latter half of 2022. Things haven't gone well if you have read the log. As a result about 2 weeks ago I put the project aside after a cold hard stare at what I had wrought. The stare was somewhat of a one eyed look as I contracted shingles at Christmas that found its way to my left eye this February. I am on  the mend but the journey's end is not yet evident.
 
Cheerful has been sitting on the bench staring back at me. It is in its final stages of completeion with all deck furniture, cannon, mast and spars completed. It needs final riiging appointments and a case. So needing a "win" I have returned to it. 
 
So I made a decision with Winchelsea. I have decided to shut this build down for the time being. In this interim I came across the components for the skeletal structure and Chapter 1 from an MSW member who has decided against the build. I purchased his components for a very reasonable price. The package arrived yesterday. First impressions when I opened the box was that the plywood material was superior to what I had bought (I elected to fabricate my own skeleton).  That is encouraging.
 
So as the song goes "you have to know when to hold 'em and you have to know when to fold 'em"! But I am not walking away.!!!!!!!
 
Joe

Trying again to make a log entry with photo(s).
 
I have completed the port side planking above the first layer of the wales. The whole effort was an experience in working with this new wood AYC, the model complexities and my relearned or new techniques.
 
Let me comment a bit about the material as I am a bit surprised no one has to date. Overall it is a good material to work with. It does have its own subtle characteristics beyond handling. In bending planking for the bow I did have a few planks shatter at their ends, even after heat bending on a form, at the bow. I suspect the billet end had dried out a bit. Cutting back the plank somewhat allowed usage elsewhere. The second more troubling but correctable problem with AYC I found is what I will term beam deflection tendency. Even with the closely spaced bulkheads it seemed in some cases to bow under the pressure of sanding. Not all planks, just some. The only solution I found was that I had to add a veneer backer across several planks internally to allow uniform sanding. It nevertheless is a easy wood to work with.
 
Well here is the port side planking progress in the attached photo. The first layer of wales recall was salvaged after too anxious a start (and incorrectly so) of the second layer. I did not attempt the rather complex planking "tabs" above and below the gun ports as I thought I was at the limit of my skills. Also it was evident all that difficult work, even if successful was going to be obscured by the frieze application.
 
Gun ports as many of you know, all 24 for a side are quite difficult. I had made a set of gun port plugs with a 1/32 frame around the perimeter that fit snuggly into each recess. The intent was to use them as a stop guide for the ensuing planking. For me, after a few attempts, they were abandoned. Any variation in match up to the banded perimeter became a glaring error when removed. It just shouted at you! To correct any of these early imperfections I ended up hand trimming the openings with a scapel and a guide as shown in the setup photo below. A metal rule with sand paper attached to the rear to add traction kept it in place along with the clamp. It was a  tedious, nerve racking effort but I was loathed to rip out yet more planking off.
 
After all that and with some manipulation of plank widths I ended up with the results shown. I was relieved the frieze tryout it came out correctly as can be seen in the stern area with its temporary placement.
 
Joe

Nice to tune in and see your great work and progress. How you and the others manage to stay the course is a mystery to me. Life for me has many interruptions. Winne sits on the shelf while I add den cabinetry for my wife's art works. For now I will have to content myself with yours and the others works. Happy New Year!
Joe