CDR_Ret

Part 2: Components
 
Hey folks,
 
Picking up where I left off, the second and (I believe) the most important way to add variances to the long boats is by changing up the components that make up each copy to make different versions of the boat. A pre-requisite to this of course, is to build the model in pieces that can later be swapped and altered. The initial version will be insipred by, but not pirated from, Chuck's Medway project. To that end, I have actually sourced my own versions of royalty-free plans online, and while there are definately some similarities, there are also some fundamental differences which include:
 
1. Overall Length of the Boat: (31 feet compared with Medway's 28 ft longboat
2. Thwart and Frame construction: The plans I found call for the same split thwart style along the waist, but actually call for cant frames near the bow and cockpit. I carefully verified this, as angled frames are/were unusual on longboats
3. Cockpit configuration: On the Medway boat, the aft-most bench touches or nearly touches the cockpit bench/seat (name?), and on my model, there is a more pronounced gap
4. Rudder: My longboat has a shorter rudder paddle
5. Spar dimensions: Plans for the mast, bowsprit, spanker boom, and spanker gaff were all taken from the AOTS book, and modified to suit a cutter-rigged boat.
 
And now for a photo montage...
 
a. Keel assembly (ignore the texturing on the knee - I will fix later)

 
b. + Thwarts and Frames

 
c. + Risers and Transom

 
d. + Floorboards and Cockpit Floor (note the standing puddles - I had fun with that visual effect )

 
e. + Seats, Cockpit Bench, Windlass, and Bolsters

 
f. + All Strakes, Wales, Mouldings, Caprails, Oarlocks, and Angle Braces

 
g. + Rudder (with tiller and gudgeon/pintle straps), Chainplates, and Grapple

 
f + Lucky Jack! Getting ahead of myself here, but this model will also include detailed character models when finished  

 
 
That's all for now, smooth seas lads (and lasses)
-Nate
 

@druxey - I was curious, however, later 18th century longboats often seem to be twin masted and lateen-rigged as opposed to the earlier cutter rigged. Do you happen to know the reason for the change?

Thank you Sir,
-Nate

Hey Folks,
 
I decided to flush out the longboat that features in my Rose and Confederacy projects. This 31-footer will be similar to my other endeavors in terms of realism and texture quality, and will have every single piece of wood, metal, and rope modelled individually. However, note that I’m using the generic term ‘longboat’ instead of referring to its specific type/function (barge, launch, pinnacle). The reason being, I’m going to attempt a one-size-fits-all approach. As a bonus, I will make the model and all of its components available for free and without restriction to anyone that wants it.

[Stepping onto my soapbox] Back to the one-size-fits-all thing – I know this may sound like a bad idea. Nearly everyone I know hates the use of ‘generic’ or ‘copy/paste’ models in CGI. And this goes far beyond the naval/nautical realm. In fact, the whole anti-CGI or practical effects only movement in Hollywood is a response to bad or lazy CGI. But therein lies the point: what audiences actually dislike isn’t CGI, it’s bad CGI. [Stepping back down now]

But what on Earth does any of that have to do with a simple longboat? Well, as I mentioned before, I ultimately want to use Rose, Confederacy, and a ship-of-the-line that I’ve not yet started to make photorealistic renderings and printable artwork. Specifically, I want to do justice to a complex harbor scene. So imagine Nassau circa 1715 or colonial Boston in the latter half of the 18th century. Both have bustling ports with hundreds of boats and ships. There have been a few films and tv shows that have attempted to bring these environments to life, some of which have even done a decent job of framing, lighting and perspective to make a brief fly-over shot look convincing. However – these are film, and they are counting on the audience having only a few seconds to absorb the imagery. This is why so many of these shots rely heavily on haze, fog, lensflare, low-light or backlighting conditions… these tricks tell your brain what you are seeing is real while obscuring the actual subject of the artwork. 
 
Just for fun sometime, pause the movie/show and look at the actual frame. Most CG boats and ships are not that detailed or well done. If there are numerous ships in the scene, it usually only takes a few seconds to realize that they are copies of one another, only posed slightly differently. And studios do it this way for good reason, the time and energy required to do it right would far outweigh the benefit.
 
But creating a realistic, static render is different. My audience will have time to focus on details. Sadly, even I don’t have time or desire to individually model 100 different ships, which brings me full circle to the crux of this endeavor:
 
How do I make a single longboat that can be cloned and easily tweaked to look like many, completely different boats in the same scene?
 
It’s not a rhetorical question, so I began by making a list of variables, in increasing order of complexity…
 
Variable #1: Shared Copies (identical mesh models) with Cosmetic Differences

1.    Pose the copies at different angles and direction, for example, if there are two at the same dock, one can face inland, the other seaward. Okay, so this one’s a no brainer. This is required to even build out the scene, and is also useless by itself.
2.    Shared copies could have different colors. So if the first longboat has blue trim, the second could have red, and yet another green, etc. This is a good start, but it should be taken a step further.
3.    Shared copies could have different skins. This involves changing not only the colors, but also the overall livery. In this scenario, the entire wale on one longboat may be painted whereas on another only the caprail and molding are painted. A third may have a decorative frieze running the wale or on the transom. The strakes on some may be entirely whitewashed, whitewashed only below the waterline on others, and perhaps not at all on a few of them. This method can add a lot of variety while still being fairly simple, as I will only need to tweak certain parts of my textures, and not rebuild the textures entirely – i.e. the underlying wood grain would still be the same on all copies of the longboat.
4.    Shared copies could have different textures. The final method of cosmetic variation is to use different texture sets for different copies. This will make each longboat appear to be constructed of different or somewhat different materials.
 
That’s it for this post, will continue in the next post of a discussion of the other two variables, which are -
 
Variable #2 Unique Copies with Differences in Components
Variable #3 Unique Copies with Differences in Configurations
 
 
-Nate
 

Yep, I am muddling my way through the tec workbench right now

I usually type in the text for a post in its entirety and leave a space (Return) between paragraphs. Then I upload the images I want to include in the post. This is a separate and preliminary action to actually inserting the image. Their thumbnails appear in a row in the UPLOADED IMAGES section below the text window.
 
Next, you place the cursor at the location to insert the image within the text (usually at one of the blank lines). And finally, hover your cursor over the image you want to insert, then click on the "Insert" button that appears.
 
That action inserts the image into the post. The default alignment is left-aligned. You can center the image by ensuring your cursor is adjacent to the image and then left-clicking the center alignment icon in the formatting row at the top of the post.
 
You can also resize the image after it is inserted by double-clicking it. You can only make it smaller than its original size. And make sure the "Keep original aspect ratio" checkbox is checked, otherwise your image will be distorted if you change the width.
 
Terry

Thanks everyone for the advice. I just used it successfully on my 'build' post.  ☺️

I usually type in the text for a post in its entirety and leave a space (Return) between paragraphs. Then I upload the images I want to include in the post. This is a separate and preliminary action to actually inserting the image. Their thumbnails appear in a row in the UPLOADED IMAGES section below the text window.
 
Next, you place the cursor at the location to insert the image within the text (usually at one of the blank lines). And finally, hover your cursor over the image you want to insert, then click on the "Insert" button that appears.
 
That action inserts the image into the post. The default alignment is left-aligned. You can center the image by ensuring your cursor is adjacent to the image and then left-clicking the center alignment icon in the formatting row at the top of the post.
 
You can also resize the image after it is inserted by double-clicking it. You can only make it smaller than its original size. And make sure the "Keep original aspect ratio" checkbox is checked, otherwise your image will be distorted if you change the width.
 
Terry

I usually type in the text for a post in its entirety and leave a space (Return) between paragraphs. Then I upload the images I want to include in the post. This is a separate and preliminary action to actually inserting the image. Their thumbnails appear in a row in the UPLOADED IMAGES section below the text window.
 
Next, you place the cursor at the location to insert the image within the text (usually at one of the blank lines). And finally, hover your cursor over the image you want to insert, then click on the "Insert" button that appears.
 
That action inserts the image into the post. The default alignment is left-aligned. You can center the image by ensuring your cursor is adjacent to the image and then left-clicking the center alignment icon in the formatting row at the top of the post.
 
You can also resize the image after it is inserted by double-clicking it. You can only make it smaller than its original size. And make sure the "Keep original aspect ratio" checkbox is checked, otherwise your image will be distorted if you change the width.
 
Terry

I usually type in the text for a post in its entirety and leave a space (Return) between paragraphs. Then I upload the images I want to include in the post. This is a separate and preliminary action to actually inserting the image. Their thumbnails appear in a row in the UPLOADED IMAGES section below the text window.
 
Next, you place the cursor at the location to insert the image within the text (usually at one of the blank lines). And finally, hover your cursor over the image you want to insert, then click on the "Insert" button that appears.
 
That action inserts the image into the post. The default alignment is left-aligned. You can center the image by ensuring your cursor is adjacent to the image and then left-clicking the center alignment icon in the formatting row at the top of the post.
 
You can also resize the image after it is inserted by double-clicking it. You can only make it smaller than its original size. And make sure the "Keep original aspect ratio" checkbox is checked, otherwise your image will be distorted if you change the width.
 
Terry

Yep!  I do what sounds like a "mix" of what James, Micha and Terry all do, and we are all arriving at the same finished entry.  But I have never used the drag-and-drop, either.  I will "prep" my pictures ahead of time using my PC's Photos app, doing all of the cropping, resizing, etc. there.  Then, when I am creating a post, I will add all the photos I intend to use in that post at once, so the picture thumbnails appear in the UPLOADED IMAGES section below the text window.
 
Then, as I am typing text, if I want to place a picture at a specific location after a paragraph, I hit enter so that the cursor is on a new line and then click the picture I want to insert.  Boom!  If I know I want to center the picture, I will hit the center alignment icon either before or after placing the picture.  If you do that, though, and after inserting the picture, be sure to click back on the left-align icon, or all your continuing text will be centered, as well.
 
One caveat to this procedure, though... if you don't place all of the pictures you have "pre-chosen" and are in the UPLOADED IMAGES section somewhere into your reply, they will auto-load at the end of your entry once you hit SUBMIT REPLY.  If that happens, you can edit your reply entry and either delete it if no longer wanting to post it or re-insert it wherever you like by placing the cursor where you want it and click the picture, then deleting where it got stuck at the end.  Sorry if this got too wordy in my explanation version! 
 
EDIT:  I re-reading PvG's initial query, it sounds like he is doing fine with the upload, but then just not "telling" his text reply where he wanted the picture specifically placed, so they are all dumping at the end, as I noted in my last paragraph.  So... ignore my first two paragraphs of yapping! 🤣🤣

I usually type in the text for a post in its entirety and leave a space (Return) between paragraphs. Then I upload the images I want to include in the post. This is a separate and preliminary action to actually inserting the image. Their thumbnails appear in a row in the UPLOADED IMAGES section below the text window.
 
Next, you place the cursor at the location to insert the image within the text (usually at one of the blank lines). And finally, hover your cursor over the image you want to insert, then click on the "Insert" button that appears.
 
That action inserts the image into the post. The default alignment is left-aligned. You can center the image by ensuring your cursor is adjacent to the image and then left-clicking the center alignment icon in the formatting row at the top of the post.
 
You can also resize the image after it is inserted by double-clicking it. You can only make it smaller than its original size. And make sure the "Keep original aspect ratio" checkbox is checked, otherwise your image will be distorted if you change the width.
 
Terry

Micha, et all:
 
Some thoughts from a modeler who doesn’t use CAD.  CAD is not necessary for building ship models.  There are 1000’s of lovely accurate ship models built before CAD.  
 
The basic scratch ship modeling drafting task is to convert archival information into patterns that define the shape of the hull.  This information comes from a drawing, a half model, or a table of offsets.  For Nineteenth Century vessels and ships built to about 1970 hulls were not designed using simple geometric shapes.  Curves are the result of two different drafting techniques; ships curves, and splines.  Splines work by the rules for deflection of beams; a cubic equation.  Ships curves are standardized drafting tools created using different mathematical functions.  How well a particular CAD program mimics these manual drafting tools well determine the accuracy of the model.  As a Naval Architecture student a long time ago, I watched a visiting Professor from a Major Japanese university test several hull forms modeled from simple trigonometric shapes, sines, cosines, parabolas, etc. in our large towing tank.  They looked nothing like real ships.
 
All ship hull lines drawings are “faired” at one time or another.  In other words, plotted points often do not line up to allow a fair curve to be passed through.  Manual drafting requires the draftsman to use his judgement to correct this.  CAD requires either manual intervention or a mathematical algorithm.  There is therefore, no definitive example of an old ship’s hull, only different interpretations.
 
To me CAD is just another ship modeling tool.  If you enjoy working with computers and are willing to spend the $$$ and especially time to learn the program that’s fine.  On the other hand, beautiful models can be built using manual drafting techniques, or purchased plans.
 
Roger

Hello Frank.
 
After working with various 3D CAD programs for nearly two decades, I think that you should first decide what the ultimate purpose and scope of using this approach will be for your projects.
 
Are you primarily intending to reconstruct and fair existing plans?
 
Is your intent to 3D print the entire hull structure and superstructure?
 
Or are you mainly interested in printing the smaller parts and otherwise creating the ship's structure out of conventional materials?
 
For validating and fairing existing ship's plans, especially those from the 19th century and earlier, I recommend the DELFTship Free software. It is a for-the-purpose naval architectural program that defaults to three standard views, provides infinitely customizable stations, waterlines, buttocks, and diagonals, and has reasonably easy-to-use modeling tools such as Gaussian and developable visualization of hull surfaces. All these features are built-in and appropriate for ship design and modeling. This is the go-to program for developing smooth, fair hull surfaces. The poor documentation for the hobbyist and nautical research modeler is its main drawback, in my opinion. Search this forum using the term "DELFTship" to take a look at some of the results by several modelers/researchers (myself included) using this program. 
 
For 3D printing large components such as the hull, deck cabins, boats, etc., you may want to check out some of the software mentioned above. I have no experience with that application.
 
For small details and relative ease of modeling, I would go with the free, open-source, full-feature Blender program. However this program has a notoriously steep learning curve. Take a look at the Blender tutorial series by BornCG on YouTube if you want to consider this route. The instructor is an excellent teacher who doesn't assume you know what the buttons do and how the multitude of program features work.
 
Sadly, most of the competent 3D programs do have that steep learning curve, so plan on spending some time figuring out ship design within the program you choose. Some of the standard 3D CAD programs are pretty clunky when attempting to create a continuously varying surface in 3-space that must conform to an existing set of plans. I can assist with DELFTship. @3DShipWright and @Martes may provide assistance with Blender. Take a look at their models, which are both accurate and very aesthetic. They are going more for illustrative results than 3D printing.
 
Terry

I've used TinkerCAD for simple projects - I started with firefighting lockers, then deck landing lights, flight deck tractors, then a crane truck.

When I wanted to move up to designing a new island for the Bonnie, I moved to a program called Design Spark Mechanical (DSM) which has a free version as well.  
 
I've had some success with it, and for 'straight line' items like a hangar deck, a radar mast, that kind of thing, it seems to work well. 

Trying to loft a ships hull in it has been challenging, and not very successful for me (so far.)  

I'm interested in the DELFT Ship Free program, and will look into that.
 
I'll note, all the aircraft are downloaded files, everything else here (hull and deck excluded) are my own designs in TinkerCAD and DSM.
 
If you're just starting out, I'll suggest going with something simply like TinkerCAD, and start with a simple project like making bollards or lockers.  
 
Once you get the basics of the design, you have to consider how it will be printed.  Understanding printing mechanics (how many wall layers will there be, is a single 0.4mm line better than a pair of 0.2mm lines...etc) and how you slice and support things is important as well. 
 
I am 6 years deep into 3D printing, and it's fun, and challenging.  
 
Getting good quality results off your printer requires a good design, a good model that's designed to be printed, a good printer, and good post-printing finishing. 

Hello Frank.
 
After working with various 3D CAD programs for nearly two decades, I think that you should first decide what the ultimate purpose and scope of using this approach will be for your projects.
 
Are you primarily intending to reconstruct and fair existing plans?
 
Is your intent to 3D print the entire hull structure and superstructure?
 
Or are you mainly interested in printing the smaller parts and otherwise creating the ship's structure out of conventional materials?
 
For validating and fairing existing ship's plans, especially those from the 19th century and earlier, I recommend the DELFTship Free software. It is a for-the-purpose naval architectural program that defaults to three standard views, provides infinitely customizable stations, waterlines, buttocks, and diagonals, and has reasonably easy-to-use modeling tools such as Gaussian and developable visualization of hull surfaces. All these features are built-in and appropriate for ship design and modeling. This is the go-to program for developing smooth, fair hull surfaces. The poor documentation for the hobbyist and nautical research modeler is its main drawback, in my opinion. Search this forum using the term "DELFTship" to take a look at some of the results by several modelers/researchers (myself included) using this program. 
 
For 3D printing large components such as the hull, deck cabins, boats, etc., you may want to check out some of the software mentioned above. I have no experience with that application.
 
For small details and relative ease of modeling, I would go with the free, open-source, full-feature Blender program. However this program has a notoriously steep learning curve. Take a look at the Blender tutorial series by BornCG on YouTube if you want to consider this route. The instructor is an excellent teacher who doesn't assume you know what the buttons do and how the multitude of program features work.
 
Sadly, most of the competent 3D programs do have that steep learning curve, so plan on spending some time figuring out ship design within the program you choose. Some of the standard 3D CAD programs are pretty clunky when attempting to create a continuously varying surface in 3-space that must conform to an existing set of plans. I can assist with DELFTship. @3DShipWright and @Martes may provide assistance with Blender. Take a look at their models, which are both accurate and very aesthetic. They are going more for illustrative results than 3D printing.
 
Terry

Hello Frank.
 
After working with various 3D CAD programs for nearly two decades, I think that you should first decide what the ultimate purpose and scope of using this approach will be for your projects.
 
Are you primarily intending to reconstruct and fair existing plans?
 
Is your intent to 3D print the entire hull structure and superstructure?
 
Or are you mainly interested in printing the smaller parts and otherwise creating the ship's structure out of conventional materials?
 
For validating and fairing existing ship's plans, especially those from the 19th century and earlier, I recommend the DELFTship Free software. It is a for-the-purpose naval architectural program that defaults to three standard views, provides infinitely customizable stations, waterlines, buttocks, and diagonals, and has reasonably easy-to-use modeling tools such as Gaussian and developable visualization of hull surfaces. All these features are built-in and appropriate for ship design and modeling. This is the go-to program for developing smooth, fair hull surfaces. The poor documentation for the hobbyist and nautical research modeler is its main drawback, in my opinion. Search this forum using the term "DELFTship" to take a look at some of the results by several modelers/researchers (myself included) using this program. 
 
For 3D printing large components such as the hull, deck cabins, boats, etc., you may want to check out some of the software mentioned above. I have no experience with that application.
 
For small details and relative ease of modeling, I would go with the free, open-source, full-feature Blender program. However this program has a notoriously steep learning curve. Take a look at the Blender tutorial series by BornCG on YouTube if you want to consider this route. The instructor is an excellent teacher who doesn't assume you know what the buttons do and how the multitude of program features work.
 
Sadly, most of the competent 3D programs do have that steep learning curve, so plan on spending some time figuring out ship design within the program you choose. Some of the standard 3D CAD programs are pretty clunky when attempting to create a continuously varying surface in 3-space that must conform to an existing set of plans. I can assist with DELFTship. @3DShipWright and @Martes may provide assistance with Blender. Take a look at their models, which are both accurate and very aesthetic. They are going more for illustrative results than 3D printing.
 
Terry

Hello Frank.
 
After working with various 3D CAD programs for nearly two decades, I think that you should first decide what the ultimate purpose and scope of using this approach will be for your projects.
 
Are you primarily intending to reconstruct and fair existing plans?
 
Is your intent to 3D print the entire hull structure and superstructure?
 
Or are you mainly interested in printing the smaller parts and otherwise creating the ship's structure out of conventional materials?
 
For validating and fairing existing ship's plans, especially those from the 19th century and earlier, I recommend the DELFTship Free software. It is a for-the-purpose naval architectural program that defaults to three standard views, provides infinitely customizable stations, waterlines, buttocks, and diagonals, and has reasonably easy-to-use modeling tools such as Gaussian and developable visualization of hull surfaces. All these features are built-in and appropriate for ship design and modeling. This is the go-to program for developing smooth, fair hull surfaces. The poor documentation for the hobbyist and nautical research modeler is its main drawback, in my opinion. Search this forum using the term "DELFTship" to take a look at some of the results by several modelers/researchers (myself included) using this program. 
 
For 3D printing large components such as the hull, deck cabins, boats, etc., you may want to check out some of the software mentioned above. I have no experience with that application.
 
For small details and relative ease of modeling, I would go with the free, open-source, full-feature Blender program. However this program has a notoriously steep learning curve. Take a look at the Blender tutorial series by BornCG on YouTube if you want to consider this route. The instructor is an excellent teacher who doesn't assume you know what the buttons do and how the multitude of program features work.
 
Sadly, most of the competent 3D programs do have that steep learning curve, so plan on spending some time figuring out ship design within the program you choose. Some of the standard 3D CAD programs are pretty clunky when attempting to create a continuously varying surface in 3-space that must conform to an existing set of plans. I can assist with DELFTship. @3DShipWright and @Martes may provide assistance with Blender. Take a look at their models, which are both accurate and very aesthetic. They are going more for illustrative results than 3D printing.
 
Terry

Okay, with the Hurricane now occupying a space of honor on the shelf, it's back to Phoenix! Following the instructions, we next darken the openings for the gratings. Exciting stuff, right?
 

 
Then it's time to start applying finish planking. Yay! The process starts at the stern. Before I started gluing anything, I cut out the relevant parts and did some dry fitting. That's when I noticed that the sternpost fascia pieces are not wide enough to cover the width of the post.
 

 
I went back and read through the instructions again. Sure enough, it looks like I overlooked some tapering that needs to be done. I will check some build logs to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure I have some more chisel & sandpaper work in my immediate future.
 
Cheers!

Hello all!
new to the forum! Never built a ship; but will start a new build soon! I’m mostly an aircraft guy- here’s a 1/35 HH-60G I finished a year ago-



 
looking forward to advice and insights..plus a lot of inspiration!!
 
cheers
Pete

Hello Doug from Colorado Springs!
 
Welcome aboard.
 
Terry

Hello Doug from Colorado Springs!
 
Welcome aboard.
 
Terry

Hello Doug from Colorado Springs!
 
Welcome aboard.
 
Terry

Welcome from another Colorado resident!! I look forward to seeing your model and the progress you are making. Wishing you success in your model building.

Hello all, 
I just discovered this site from a newsletter put out by Rocky Mountain Shipwrights in Colorado.  I recently joined this group and many members have recommended this site. I am a first-time ship model builder, but have been building models of various types for most of my life. I chose the US Brig Syren as my first build, from Model Shipways. I looked at the description and the instruction info on the website and felt it was something I could do.  I am also a amateur woodworker, so that has helped a lot with the build. While many of the skills are new to me, I have a basic understanding of how to build things. I have actually built a small wooden rowboat in my shop.  Started this project about 2.5 years ago, and got a little sidetracked when I finally retired for good and started working in my shop everyday.  I have been back to building the model pretty consistently for the last 6 months.  Using only the model instruction sheets, I have gotten this far. I only recently discovered all these resources available.  I enjoy figuring things out for myself,  but really appreciate the info on sites like this. Looking forward to seeing and reading about other people's projects and solutions. 

Hi all, thanks for having me.
 
My name is Klas, I am 44 years old and live with my wife in Sweden, on the Baltic coast. I have recently taken up ship modelling and I am currently building the HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne from Vanguard Models. In the past I have done some plastic modelling and wargaming miniature painting.
 
As a profession I sit in front of a computer or in meetings all day. I am trained as a metal machine operator, turning and milling, and started work as a CNC operator. After a few years I learned 3D CAD and worked in the design department designing cutting tools, mostly drill bits. And since 15 years I work in the Supply Chain with more boring work, but getting paid a lot more. I miss some aspects of the work I have done in the past and I been wanting to take up a hobby where I can create something.
 
I am very interested in history, naval and otherwise, and I owned a sailing boat for a number of years. 
 
I have a pretty good home office where I can do most work, however I can't really have much machinery here. I don't have a workshop, but my father in law has one about 20min away, he has a lot of tools, small bandsaws, turning tools even a CNC mill.
 
I have a lot left to do in my current project, but I am also looking into the next build. Here I would like something in a bigger scale I think. The Syren Cutter Cheerful looks incredible and I will probably try and get hold of that. The Maris Stella HMS Speedy seems interesting too.
 
The most inspiring model I have seen is the Winchelsea so maybe this would be a goal to aspire to in a number of years. 
 
Klas