trippwj

Moving along briskly, Augie.  The decking looks really nice, and I like the idea of supports for the antlers.
 
Now, I have heard of a razee, where the number of decks is reduced, but not sure I have seen many (any?) where additional decks were added!  Make her into a 54 gun, eh?

What do you love Popeye…...
 
And Augie?
 
The new shrouds are done and the first two ratlines are also done       
Maybe tomorrow ( when you behave ) I shall post a picture….
 

Most of the wood will be used for cooking. We have a brick "barbeque" that we cook over in the summer. Very little gets used for heating because the place is uninsulated.
 
As for the gnomes, most where eaten during the great raccoon invasion, and the survivors packed up and left after the blizzard of '88

Rich,
1) There is a joke there some where I am sure!! 
2) Yes! "Dont Mess With Texas!" 
 
As much as I want to see updates, I am kind of hopeing there wont be any for a bit since that will mean you got the job!
 
sam

Well, I am currently in Clinton, Ct., and tomorrow will visit the Morgan in Mystic.  Update pictures will follow for the venture getting here, then I will post as many pictures of the real thing, the museum, and the models that I can take for reference for anyone interested in this ship.  I'm going to miss my friend Lester, who is an interpreter for the ship, as he is still a working stiff...lol., but seriously, he can't make it because he does have to work.  so I'm on my own, unlike the Constitution where I had Henry.  More to follow.....

Sjors - that's a lot of bits and pieces! Will grab a seat here in the front before it gets crowded.

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 4 - Webb’s Young America

Well, they say that every good plan eventually degenerates into hard work. The research and planning for the model has been fun, but now it is time to get down to business. That does not necessarily mean getting right into the workshop, although apart from the frame process tests discussed in Part 3, I do hope to start forming the keel in a week or two. Right now there is a ton of frame lofting to do and sometimes that can get tedious. With 80 frame pairs, totaling 160 frames, there are a lot of patterns to create. Please be patient.

In Part 3 I had intended to discuss Young America, and my choice of her as a subject, but I inserted the framing process work instead. So, I will discuss YA here while I take a break from lofting frames.

Webb
William H. Webb was widely regarded as the premier American shipbuilder of the mid-19th century period. His father Isaac Webb took over the New York shipyard of Henry Eckford in 1825 and operated it under the name of Webb and Allen until his death in 1840. During that time, 23 ships – from cutters to packets were built. In 1840 William Webb took over the yard. Over the next 30 years, 135 ships were built – packets, clippers, steamers, barks, ironclads, and of course, extreme clippers – 9 of them. Following Celestial and Gazelle, the third.of these was Challenge, launched in 1851. The purchasers single requirement was that Challenge should be the finest and fastest merchant ship in the world, regardless of cost. At 252’ feet she was the largest extreme clipper to be launched to that date. Comet at 241’ was launched two months later. There were four more before Young America in 1853 – the ship that Webb considered his masterpiece. He knew the extreme clipper era was ending and that YA was the last he would build. He went on to build many more ships through 1869. In later life Webb turned to philanthropy, starting a school of marine architecture for boys of limited means. To this day, tuition at Webb Institute is free to qualifying applicants.

Young America

Young America was named after a broad, popular cultural-political movement that flourished in pre Civil War America. The movement advocated democratic reform, free trade, expansion and similar themes. It was a largely urban, middle class movement that became associated with the Democratic party and Stephen Douglas. It paralleled similar movements in Europe.

Some design particulars:
~243’ long od, 43’2” extreme breadth, ~26’ depth of hold
1961 tons – old measure
20” floor deadrise (9 deg)
deadflat forward of midpoint 25’
swell of the sides (tumblehome) 20”
3 decks
circular stern
cost $140,000

Excuse the approximate numbers on her size. There seems to be a variety of measurements reported and due to lack of standardization, it is not always clear what they are. Fortunately the original offsets (see below) ensures that the model will be correct. Other features will be described and compared to other similar ships as they occur later in construction.

I include deadrise in this list because it was considered a key variable in improving speed. Of course as the angle of the floors increased, hold capacity decreased, so the pronounced deadrise of up to 20+ degrees that was employed on the early extreme clippers clearly emphasized speed over capacity in these ships. As the period advanced, bottom shapes became more flat, without an attendant loss of speed. At 9 degrees YA is a good example of the evolved design.

The key structural issue in these ships was the prevention of hogging – the downward deformation of the hull at the ends – sometimes to the point of failure. The problem occurred in wooden ships because of reduced buoyancy at the ends due to less hull volume at the bow and stern. The long length and the sharp entry and run aft in these ships severely aggravated the problem. The obvious solution was to increase hull strength by various means – huge keelsons, heavy inboard planking (called bilge keelsons), various forms of triangular bracing, anti-hogging chocks, diagonal iron lattice-work bolted to the frames, kneed pillars, and generally heavy construction - to the point of reducing hold capacity. Relative to the competition, Webb employed these features with a lighter touch, generally keeping scantlings smaller. He also employed some innovation in going to variable frame spacing with frames spaced further apart toward the ends of the hull where the smaller sections required less structure. This is said to have reduced the dead weight of the structure at each end by up to 25 tons – a substantial relief of the hogging strain effect. The long life of Young America (and others) is a testament to this good engineering.

Availability of data on Webb’s ships is limited to books of plans from his papers for some of his ships. Data for Challenge is fairly complete, since at her launch detailed descriptions were printed. For Young America, less original data is available.

Building a fully framed Young America would not be possible for me without the work of William L. Crothers, specifically his recently published (1997) The American Clipper Ship, Characteristics, Construction, Details. The book is a thoroughly researched tour de force on clipper ship construction. In it he has reproduced Webb’s original table of offsets for both Young America and Comet – essential for producing hull drawings. He has also included substantial basic scantling information for a variety of ships. Based on the assumption that Challenge, Comet and YA would all be similar in structural design, I believe an accurate framed model design can be made forYoung America. Having reached this conclusion, I made my choice to proceed. Crothers also published model plans for a number of ships under the name Sea Gull Plans. The plans for YA (1:96) do not include framing or structure, but will be useful for deck arrangements and rigging. I have also used his similar plans for Challenge and McKay’s Lightning for reference. I have acquired and studied a variety of other sources, but in the main, Crothers has nicely collected most of the useful data – and has usefully referenced his sources in detail.

Below is an image of the CAD body plan from Webb’s original table of offsets. This provides a good description of the hull shape. It is very different from my previous model of Naiad and ships of her type. The method of creating the body plan was also much different. Gone are the heights and breadths of rising, the circular sweeps and points plotted on diagonals. It is possible that a half hull model was made first and the waterline/butt line offsets taken from that to loft the ship. This was a common practice.



This body plan is a starting point for the frame lofting. It shows only profiles at primary station lines. To this drawing I have added all of the intermediate frame profiles as well as profiles between these to permit beveled frame patterns to be lofted. The intermediate profiles were plotted from points measured on a half breadth plan constructed from the original table. That body plan is shown below.



The cant frame profiles are not shown in this plan. The square frame lines are extremely close together, especially near midship. Fortunately, only the computer has to see them.  The diagonals on this plan were added only to set the height of the frame joints in fair lines. I do not believe the American builders paid too much attention to this, but it will make a neater model.

In addition, a table of scantlings is being progressively constructed from various sources.
 
As proof that there will really be a model starting soon, I have included the following photo of the old Naiad building board sporting the framing plan for YA. The shipway is just long enough.




Ed

I agree Sam- support on here has been phenomenal!  Yeah, caught with my pants down and no gun!  Apparently these two crackheads pulled off a few robberies like this in the area lately...  If this happened in Texas, it'd be a whole different outcome!!  
 
But, so far I'm getting good feedback from the company- they're still pushing forward and trying to get their govt customer's approval.  So if things keep going as well as they have been, it looks like something definite in a few weeks!    I definitely feel good about this one, so staying super positive and proactive with all the details.  
 
Anyway, gotta contact all my schools to get transcripts, etc...  maybe I'll push a few parts around in the shop later.  

With the Anchor chain being finished for the time being i moved onto the super structure. I moved ahead with painting everything the light deck gray that the instructions call for. and mixed up a dark deck blue for the tops of all the guns and parts fo the decks.

afterwards i moved to applying some PE parts. This is my first time using PE so im going to give it my best effort and if for some reason it doesn't work out ill just use the standard parts that came with the model. I did notice that some fo the parts show the port holes and in wanting to make it look more detailed i drilled them out. i think this will give a nice effect when glued in place, giving more shadowing.

I did notice that most of the supersturcture doesn't have this detail however. Does anyone know how to get them measured out, or some kind of template to put them in? It will look funny if only some parts have portholes and most of the ship doesn't.
 
some dry fitting of the super sturucture.

I know exactly what you mate, when I was in the army we had guys from all over the country, it was a real mix up of accents and dialects. After a very short period we each of us picked up different bits of each other and we ended up with almost our own language.
 
It is fascinating to think you speak one way for years on end then change in a relatively short time, Andy must have come across it from time to time as will most servicemen.
 
I think we do treasure these meetings because they don't happen every day, and it's that I think that makes them special. It's strange but I've met a few guys now John, Grant, Anja  and Sjors and all are either the other side of the world or across the North Sea, I have builders who live close by who for whatever reason wont meet up, shame really.
 
Hopefully one day given the right circumstances and some great traveling companions I may make it across the pond and we can have a gathering, bit like a gathering of the clan. That's for the future.
 
mobbsie

The Newfie accent is something to hear. The further you get around the bay (which actually means around the island) the thicker it gets. You have to have a good ear to understand what it is they're saying

We want pics!!!!!
 
 
( just filling in........ (-: )

Hi Sjors.
 
Good luck with this beast of a ship. Its a great kit and its going to take 100s of hours of pleasurable building 

Sjors - that's a lot of bits and pieces! Will grab a seat here in the front before it gets crowded.

LOVE IT!!!!  Interesting approach to hazard lighting on the tug.....

What gives here? Another Sjors build?
 
Yeeesh.... time to enlarge the workshop again.....
 
 
Andy

CONGRATULATIONS, COMMODORE SJORS.
 
You've picked a fine vessel to add to your fleet.  Thank you for posting the history as well as the details on the kit.  I will, of course, be following with great interest.
 
You also have my respect for being able to keep the box closed for 1.32 hours after you got home     
 
I shall now spend the rest of my morning attempting to calculate how many untied ratlines you are committed to with the SI, Mirage and now Aggie all in the shipyard.

John - thanks for asking!  I was fearing that I was the only one who didn't know.  I Googled it and came up with a derogatory slang word for Italians, but knew they wouldn't be wiping some form of Italian sealant on the deck!

Sjors - that's a lot of bits and pieces! Will grab a seat here in the front before it gets crowded.

Sjors - that's a lot of bits and pieces! Will grab a seat here in the front before it gets crowded.

Thanks Wayne, everyone has a seat at the front !
 
 

Sjors - that's a lot of bits and pieces! Will grab a seat here in the front before it gets crowded.

I too purchased the book for my next build  I am currently building HMS Prince 1670. I recently moved to a much smaller workshop and thought that Prince (my first POF in 30 yrs, scratch built) would be a good warm up for the Sussex. I am currently waiting for the pearwood I cut after Sandy to season and it will go into the Sussex. The plans seem to be very good and it will be a pleasure to work from a good set after the garbage that I bought for the Prince.

Andy, I tried your lingo with a stiff upper lip and an upwardly pointing chin, it actually made sense, so there's some olde English in there somewhere, if you try it you'll see what I mean.
Wayne, I dont know about Chatham being the same again, I know I'll never be the same.
 
John, I aint gonna bovver wiv ow ta talk proper cos I fink I speek awight.
 
Popeye, It's only this forum I believe makes these meeting's possible, I don't think it happens elsewhere, It would be great if meet's could be set up with each nations members, the logistics would be immense but it could be done, all we need is willing members.
 
Augie, I think the expression tells me " if one more person points a bl--dy camera at me I'm going to scream" It was early in the morning.
 
Mark,  You are allowed to move the top lip slightly, "bit like a Rhino eating". It does take a bit of practice.  
 
Sjors,  Only look at the plans.
 
Have fun guys
 
mobbsie
 
 
 

Bah... All yer "Hausteralian" and "gooder English" and "olde English" gots nothin' on down 'ome newfanese! No, m'son, nuttin a t'all....no siree b'ye....