dafi

Hello Alan, yes I am completely with you, most of the times the riveting is out of scale at small scales.

At my Vic at 1:100 I refused for that reason for a long time to simulate the riveting until I found something in the shelf of the bathroom: a derma-roller of my then dear lady :-0

A torture instrument in my very eyes, I saw the other qualities, I disassembled one and gave a different distance for the spiky wheels and a new handle and then things kept rolling 😉

The result was quite like I feelt it should look like, very subtle to the naked eye, it gives a kind of structure that is feeling quite welcome on the whole of the coppering.


 
I also opted for the naked keel.
 


 
I know the basic flaw are the overscaled scales of the Heller kit, but over all it leaves a "good impression."
 
XXXDAn
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Dafi,
Those photos are great to see.  Comparing the number and size of the nails on each plate in a real situation confirms the many comments here at MSW and elsewhere that at smaller scales, it is nigh impossible to accurately replicate these on a model ship at scales smaller than 1:48.  With the many out-of-scale plates and nail dents (or worse, rivet like bumps) that we see the idea of plain copper tape or just painting the bottom will look more realistic. 
Allan

Thank you Alan, my pleasure!
 
Her some more real old copper, seen in museum in Oudeschild Texel, where the famous dioprama of the roadstead with the dutch fleet is shown.
 
Just enjoy the laying pattern, the adjustments in the edges and around the fittings, the patches and my favorite piece: the hole of the rudder jeer  🙂
 

Log #71: Raising the Boom
Next up is the boom.
 
I rigged the block for the boom topping lift in much the same way the other blocks seized to the mast head were done. The main difference is I used a 3.5mm block instead of the 3mm ones. I had wanted to use a 4mm one, but as I have previously discussed, when I went to buy them they were no longer available and so I had to settle for 3.5mm.

I also have been experimenting a bunch with the fake splices and I am slowly getting better at them, though at the same time they are slowly getting closer to a real splice.

According to steel the topping lift should be 4.5 inches cir, this works out to .57mm, but as I didn’t have any 0.6mm rope I instead used 0.5mm.

Counteracting the topping lift we have the sheet tackle. For this I used 0.45mm line copying BE’s arrangement.

For the sheet line I used 0.35mm line. Steel seems to indicate this should be 3 in cir which works out to 0.38 so close enough. I am still having a bit of trouble with the different names between the alert book, steel and the kit instructions, but as there are so many mistakes at this point I am mostly just making sure it makes logical sense and roughly corresponds to steel / the alert book.

And here is the current state of her. Now that all these counteracting lines are in place I need to tie them all off to get rid of the clutter. You can also see I am still working on the tackle for the boom topping lift as the block is spliced onto the line, but is waiting for the glue to dry before I cut off the ends.

Thanks to everyone who has stopped by for the encouragement, she is really starting to look like a sailing ship now.

Your Alert is looking wonderful, a credit to your skill and perseverance.
 
I first came across  the 'false' splice many years ago from Gil Middleton's  superb Caldercraft Victory build.
It is a really useful technique, that I thoroughly endorse.
 
B.E.

Started my day off with a good laugh, thanks for the post😁😁

History shows both versions, without and with coppered false keel. So pick one 🙂
 
We had another discussion concerning this topic, and it seems, that sometimes while recoppering the false keel was not removed and overcoppered. Lazy bastards 🙂
 
All the best, Daniel

Nationaal archief Den Haag, Number 1.01.47.21 - Inv. Nr.: 112.
 
I also added it to the entry
 
XXXDAn

Here some additional remarks from my collection of historical copper:
St. Georges rudder in Thorsminde, much patched but apparently mostely the lower plate overlaping the upper one.
 
A spanish vessel lower one overlapping the upper one (drawn from a perished french forum)

 

 
A picture of Bruno Orsel, unknown merchant vessel showing the same

 
 
Nationaal archief Den Haag - Zugangsnummer: 1.01.47.29, Inv. Nr. 15 von ca. 1780. Die Platten waren 4 Fuß lang und 14 Daumen breit. Die Überlappung betrug 1 Daumen. Amsterdamer Maß. 1 Fuß 283 mm, ein Daumen 25,727.. mm. (Thanks to Werner) My interpretation of the thicker red line is that the upper overlaps the lower plate
This could be an english original for the drawing above. Even with a copper sample 🙂
Nationaal archief Den Haag, Zugangsnummer 1.01.47.21 - Inv. Nr.: 112.

San Francisco Maritime, National Historical Park, California, On permanent exhibit in the Maritime Museum is a portion of the hull and the rudder of the ship NIANTIC, which was beached at Montgomery Street during the Gold Rush and become a store and hotel. The vessel housed the boot shop of abolitionists.
Intersting that the fittings on the hull were overplated, the fittings of the rudder were not ...

 
Cutty Sark in 1872 after she lost her rudder, lower one over the upper one

 

Historical picture of the Victory, lower over upper

Just see how evenly it was layied 😉 Just like St. George´s copper.
 

 
Not contemporary but nicely to be seen on Constitution 😉

 
Jyland, were old meets new.
 

 
And for those who like films 🙂
 
Boston Tea Party Tours - Copper Cladding Begins | #11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TP5qGce...E78C06557ABDA9B

Boston Tea Party Tours - More Copper Ship Cladding | #13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpVQ-EIGZW4

Boston Tea Party Museums - Copper Cladding | #17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZdH-r5a_HQ

Boston Tea Party Museums - Fitting The Rudder | #18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO4uwCVIhwA

Boston Tea Party Museums - Damaged Beaver | #19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcL2yVlri-w

An epiphany.  Placing a sheet of paper behind working on black thread in a dark shed.  Genius. 🤔

Getting much better.  The glue/paint treatment on the rope that was suggested looks good.  Getting better at using fly fish thread. 

Thank you David, other photos.

Part 12
The Case of the Case
 
In the latter part of October, 2022, I drew up plans for the display case that would protect Victory from dust, cats, and the few individuals that can't resist touching something. I did this "Old School", something I really enjoy, with drafting tools and a mechanical pencil on my drafting table. Dimentions of the base are 54 1/2" L  x 17 5/8" W x 3 1/2" T. The case frame for the plex is 53" L x 16" x 21" T. I chose Maple for the material and Minwax "Gunstock" for the stain.
 
I've built smaller cases before and a few furniture pieces. I estimated about a month to do this. Then the rains came through the Central Coast of California.
 
To be continued.

It's time to put the dust away. Ten years ago I started with great enthusiasm the build of the small cutter. But to be honest I was not able to reconstruct the framing of the cutter. So I stopped after some time and paused the project. In October of 2022 I started a new try.
I lerned a lot and made a complete rework of my reconstruction. The first two pictures are showing a 3D-model which I used to check my lines.


 
As written in the old posts I was not happy with the frame design in Goodwins AotS Book. In my opinion, it does not fit into the time in which the cutter was built. There are several DoF plans of small ships of this era in the NMM. What almost all of them have in common is that the double frames were dissolved. A space was also left between the first futtock and the floortimber. However, the "double frames" were still connected by chocks.
 
The picture shows my reconstruction. I have it a little bit simplified, because I w like to plank the hull, so the shifted top timbers will not be visible. Many many thanks to @Chuck who gave me the inspiration for the simplification.
 

Since February last year I am working on the model. All parallel frames have been built in the meantime. I am now busy with a second version of the backbone.
The build is more or less a test to learn working with my CNC. In November I have started working on my sloop Fly again. The plan is to build and test the building methods on Alert and use this than for my ship sloop.

The question I am having is: Did in Soleil´s days those ports were pointing foreward or aft as seen in Vasa?













... and the 2 last ports each deck are pointing aft.









Nicely to be seen in the small reconstruction of the upper gundeck. Those guns can hardly be pointed the conventional way with 90° to the ship´s center line





Also on "head chasers" on the upper deck are pointing forewards.



... thus avoiding the cathead-knee 🙂



Something that went wrong on the 1:10 model, where these guns have to be placed over the cathead-knees 😉



By the way, the lower deck guns have the same errata.

XXXDAn

Hello Eric, very nice start 🙂
 
Ian is putting lot of confidence in my knowledge, but I think Hubac is much closer to this time frame than me with my Victory.
 
Here is the aforementioned change of the guns: Trunnions more to the back and axxis more apart, It immediately looses the "toygun"-flair 😉
 

 
As for the pot lids, it was still common at this timeframe just to have 1 lanyard, when they actually changed to 2 I am not sure. And if Soleil was equipped with 2 I know even less 🙂
 
Some hints are given by the "adaptation of SR’s sister ship La Reyne into Soleil Royal" of Hubac´s last post, only showing one ring on the bottom side and the contemporary (HMS) Prince´s contemporary model that also only shows one lanyard per gunport.
 
But if you use 2 lanyards the rings were usually fastened at the end of the metal strips and not inbetween. See the gunport fittings of my Victory. And you also see that even in those later days the smaller gunports also had only 1 lanyard 🙂
 

More about this topic here:
 
Also I used two brass wires to fox the lid to the hulll, this enabling a small gap, here a early version.

 
Together with the small eyebolts from my sets this should look like the following pictures. This should give you the scale of the ensemble of the eyebolts and the according rings, be it 1 or 2 lanyards. First one of implementing the rings onto the eyebolts, second the finished lanyard with leather protection for the inlet hole that was made out of bored out and pulled sprue 🙂


 
Hope this helps, DAniel
 
Just to round up, here a picture of my rendition, also a restart after almost 30 years of tinkering abstinence 🙂

 
 

Nationaal archief Den Haag, Number 1.01.47.21 - Inv. Nr.: 112.
 
I also added it to the entry
 
XXXDAn

Here some additional remarks from my collection of historical copper:
St. Georges rudder in Thorsminde, much patched but apparently mostely the lower plate overlaping the upper one.
 
A spanish vessel lower one overlapping the upper one (drawn from a perished french forum)

 

 
A picture of Bruno Orsel, unknown merchant vessel showing the same

 
 
Nationaal archief Den Haag - Zugangsnummer: 1.01.47.29, Inv. Nr. 15 von ca. 1780. Die Platten waren 4 Fuß lang und 14 Daumen breit. Die Überlappung betrug 1 Daumen. Amsterdamer Maß. 1 Fuß 283 mm, ein Daumen 25,727.. mm. (Thanks to Werner) My interpretation of the thicker red line is that the upper overlaps the lower plate
This could be an english original for the drawing above. Even with a copper sample 🙂
Nationaal archief Den Haag, Zugangsnummer 1.01.47.21 - Inv. Nr.: 112.

San Francisco Maritime, National Historical Park, California, On permanent exhibit in the Maritime Museum is a portion of the hull and the rudder of the ship NIANTIC, which was beached at Montgomery Street during the Gold Rush and become a store and hotel. The vessel housed the boot shop of abolitionists.
Intersting that the fittings on the hull were overplated, the fittings of the rudder were not ...

 
Cutty Sark in 1872 after she lost her rudder, lower one over the upper one

 

Historical picture of the Victory, lower over upper

Just see how evenly it was layied 😉 Just like St. George´s copper.
 

 
Not contemporary but nicely to be seen on Constitution 😉

 
Jyland, were old meets new.
 

 
And for those who like films 🙂
 
Boston Tea Party Tours - Copper Cladding Begins | #11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TP5qGce...E78C06557ABDA9B

Boston Tea Party Tours - More Copper Ship Cladding | #13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpVQ-EIGZW4

Boston Tea Party Museums - Copper Cladding | #17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZdH-r5a_HQ

Boston Tea Party Museums - Fitting The Rudder | #18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO4uwCVIhwA

Boston Tea Party Museums - Damaged Beaver | #19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcL2yVlri-w

Nationaal archief Den Haag, Number 1.01.47.21 - Inv. Nr.: 112.
 
I also added it to the entry
 
XXXDAn

Here some additional remarks from my collection of historical copper:
St. Georges rudder in Thorsminde, much patched but apparently mostely the lower plate overlaping the upper one.
 
A spanish vessel lower one overlapping the upper one (drawn from a perished french forum)

 

 
A picture of Bruno Orsel, unknown merchant vessel showing the same

 
 
Nationaal archief Den Haag - Zugangsnummer: 1.01.47.29, Inv. Nr. 15 von ca. 1780. Die Platten waren 4 Fuß lang und 14 Daumen breit. Die Überlappung betrug 1 Daumen. Amsterdamer Maß. 1 Fuß 283 mm, ein Daumen 25,727.. mm. (Thanks to Werner) My interpretation of the thicker red line is that the upper overlaps the lower plate
This could be an english original for the drawing above. Even with a copper sample 🙂
Nationaal archief Den Haag, Zugangsnummer 1.01.47.21 - Inv. Nr.: 112.

San Francisco Maritime, National Historical Park, California, On permanent exhibit in the Maritime Museum is a portion of the hull and the rudder of the ship NIANTIC, which was beached at Montgomery Street during the Gold Rush and become a store and hotel. The vessel housed the boot shop of abolitionists.
Intersting that the fittings on the hull were overplated, the fittings of the rudder were not ...

 
Cutty Sark in 1872 after she lost her rudder, lower one over the upper one

 

Historical picture of the Victory, lower over upper

Just see how evenly it was layied 😉 Just like St. George´s copper.
 

 
Not contemporary but nicely to be seen on Constitution 😉

 
Jyland, were old meets new.
 

 
And for those who like films 🙂
 
Boston Tea Party Tours - Copper Cladding Begins | #11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TP5qGce...E78C06557ABDA9B

Boston Tea Party Tours - More Copper Ship Cladding | #13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpVQ-EIGZW4

Boston Tea Party Museums - Copper Cladding | #17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZdH-r5a_HQ

Boston Tea Party Museums - Fitting The Rudder | #18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO4uwCVIhwA

Boston Tea Party Museums - Damaged Beaver | #19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcL2yVlri-w

Here some additional remarks from my collection of historical copper:
St. Georges rudder in Thorsminde, much patched but apparently mostely the lower plate overlaping the upper one.
 
A spanish vessel lower one overlapping the upper one (drawn from a perished french forum)

 

 
A picture of Bruno Orsel, unknown merchant vessel showing the same

 
 
Nationaal archief Den Haag - Zugangsnummer: 1.01.47.29, Inv. Nr. 15 von ca. 1780. Die Platten waren 4 Fuß lang und 14 Daumen breit. Die Überlappung betrug 1 Daumen. Amsterdamer Maß. 1 Fuß 283 mm, ein Daumen 25,727.. mm. (Thanks to Werner) My interpretation of the thicker red line is that the upper overlaps the lower plate
This could be an english original for the drawing above. Even with a copper sample 🙂
Nationaal archief Den Haag, Zugangsnummer 1.01.47.21 - Inv. Nr.: 112.

San Francisco Maritime, National Historical Park, California, On permanent exhibit in the Maritime Museum is a portion of the hull and the rudder of the ship NIANTIC, which was beached at Montgomery Street during the Gold Rush and become a store and hotel. The vessel housed the boot shop of abolitionists.
Intersting that the fittings on the hull were overplated, the fittings of the rudder were not ...

 
Cutty Sark in 1872 after she lost her rudder, lower one over the upper one

 

Historical picture of the Victory, lower over upper

Just see how evenly it was layied 😉 Just like St. George´s copper.
 

 
Not contemporary but nicely to be seen on Constitution 😉

 
Jyland, were old meets new.
 

 
And for those who like films 🙂
 
Boston Tea Party Tours - Copper Cladding Begins | #11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TP5qGce...E78C06557ABDA9B

Boston Tea Party Tours - More Copper Ship Cladding | #13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpVQ-EIGZW4

Boston Tea Party Museums - Copper Cladding | #17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZdH-r5a_HQ

Boston Tea Party Museums - Fitting The Rudder | #18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO4uwCVIhwA

Boston Tea Party Museums - Damaged Beaver | #19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcL2yVlri-w

Here some additional remarks from my collection of historical copper:
St. Georges rudder in Thorsminde, much patched but apparently mostely the lower plate overlaping the upper one.
 
A spanish vessel lower one overlapping the upper one (drawn from a perished french forum)

 

 
A picture of Bruno Orsel, unknown merchant vessel showing the same

 
 
Nationaal archief Den Haag - Zugangsnummer: 1.01.47.29, Inv. Nr. 15 von ca. 1780. Die Platten waren 4 Fuß lang und 14 Daumen breit. Die Überlappung betrug 1 Daumen. Amsterdamer Maß. 1 Fuß 283 mm, ein Daumen 25,727.. mm. (Thanks to Werner) My interpretation of the thicker red line is that the upper overlaps the lower plate
This could be an english original for the drawing above. Even with a copper sample 🙂
Nationaal archief Den Haag, Zugangsnummer 1.01.47.21 - Inv. Nr.: 112.

San Francisco Maritime, National Historical Park, California, On permanent exhibit in the Maritime Museum is a portion of the hull and the rudder of the ship NIANTIC, which was beached at Montgomery Street during the Gold Rush and become a store and hotel. The vessel housed the boot shop of abolitionists.
Intersting that the fittings on the hull were overplated, the fittings of the rudder were not ...

 
Cutty Sark in 1872 after she lost her rudder, lower one over the upper one

 

Historical picture of the Victory, lower over upper

Just see how evenly it was layied 😉 Just like St. George´s copper.
 

 
Not contemporary but nicely to be seen on Constitution 😉

 
Jyland, were old meets new.
 

 
And for those who like films 🙂
 
Boston Tea Party Tours - Copper Cladding Begins | #11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TP5qGce...E78C06557ABDA9B

Boston Tea Party Tours - More Copper Ship Cladding | #13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpVQ-EIGZW4

Boston Tea Party Museums - Copper Cladding | #17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZdH-r5a_HQ

Boston Tea Party Museums - Fitting The Rudder | #18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO4uwCVIhwA

Boston Tea Party Museums - Damaged Beaver | #19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcL2yVlri-w

Here some additional remarks from my collection of historical copper:
St. Georges rudder in Thorsminde, much patched but apparently mostely the lower plate overlaping the upper one.
 
A spanish vessel lower one overlapping the upper one (drawn from a perished french forum)

 

 
A picture of Bruno Orsel, unknown merchant vessel showing the same

 
 
Nationaal archief Den Haag - Zugangsnummer: 1.01.47.29, Inv. Nr. 15 von ca. 1780. Die Platten waren 4 Fuß lang und 14 Daumen breit. Die Überlappung betrug 1 Daumen. Amsterdamer Maß. 1 Fuß 283 mm, ein Daumen 25,727.. mm. (Thanks to Werner) My interpretation of the thicker red line is that the upper overlaps the lower plate
This could be an english original for the drawing above. Even with a copper sample 🙂
Nationaal archief Den Haag, Zugangsnummer 1.01.47.21 - Inv. Nr.: 112.

San Francisco Maritime, National Historical Park, California, On permanent exhibit in the Maritime Museum is a portion of the hull and the rudder of the ship NIANTIC, which was beached at Montgomery Street during the Gold Rush and become a store and hotel. The vessel housed the boot shop of abolitionists.
Intersting that the fittings on the hull were overplated, the fittings of the rudder were not ...

 
Cutty Sark in 1872 after she lost her rudder, lower one over the upper one

 

Historical picture of the Victory, lower over upper

Just see how evenly it was layied 😉 Just like St. George´s copper.
 

 
Not contemporary but nicely to be seen on Constitution 😉

 
Jyland, were old meets new.
 

 
And for those who like films 🙂
 
Boston Tea Party Tours - Copper Cladding Begins | #11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TP5qGce...E78C06557ABDA9B

Boston Tea Party Tours - More Copper Ship Cladding | #13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpVQ-EIGZW4

Boston Tea Party Museums - Copper Cladding | #17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZdH-r5a_HQ

Boston Tea Party Museums - Fitting The Rudder | #18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO4uwCVIhwA

Boston Tea Party Museums - Damaged Beaver | #19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcL2yVlri-w

Did a little more digging and found the following in contracts for the Echo (1782) , Aurora (1776), and Astrea (1808) which I thought was very interesting.   I do not recall ever seeing this on a model where the coppering is done on the keel before the false keel is secured to the bottom of the keel.  It makes total sense as the false keel is sacrificial so why protect it as well as prevent it from doing its job. 
 Allan
 
As the Ship is to be partly coppered before the False Keel is put under, Care must be taken that there is Copper, as shall be directed, put all Fore and Aft between the Main and False Keels, properly turned up and fastened.

Testors paint. Everyone that’s ever used it has spilled it.  Testors is dead to me….
All my foreshrouds that were ready are now retired.