Roger Pellett

Hi Folks,
 
I was thinking when I have painted the hull of my kit in copper and apply a matt finish I could weathering it with Humbrol Chrome oxide. This has a greenish color. I could even use a little yellow the sand weathering power to soften the green a little.
 
I would like to experiment a little with those weathering powders now I got them at home waiting for me.
 
Anybody has some thoughts about that?
 
http://www.humbrol.com/us-en/shop/weathering/weathering-powders.html
 
Grtz Ray

There is also the fact that often the average person doesn't know what they are looking at to know if it is right or wrong. When I go visit my dad at his Mustang restoration shop, I can see a car in there and go wow!, that is a great looking car. He can then point out the different items that make it not so great. 
 
My first wooden ship model was also the Rattlesnake. I'm proud of it because I built it without having any idea of how to build wooden ships. Prior to that they had all been plastic. Although I proudly display it in a case in my bedroom, it has so many problems from horrible planking, paint, badly built masts and yards to rigging that is far from accurate. My friends and family are of course both polite to not criticize but they are still truly amazed at the work that I did. Most of them are craft hobbyist of one sort or another and so they appreciate the work but none of them have the interest in ships to know what is wrong.
 
Don;t worry about work being perfect. Especially first builds since unless you are unnaturally talented and a good deal lucky, they won't be. Instead give it your best effort knowing there will be bad spots. Then grow on the next one and the next one. Challenge yourself more and learn more on each ship. As long as they continue to improve and most importantly you are having fun, then you are doing good.

Many years ago, I had a friend who was interested in building a model ship. I suggested the Model Shipways Virginia Pilot Boat model which he purchased. As we worked together we often had lunch together and I would always ask how he was coming and offer help. His answer was always "I got it out but was afraid that I would mess it up." I suspect that upon his too early death, the kit was thrown out.
 
My advice to beginners would therefore be a little different:
 
Get busy and build the model before you lose interest! Your first model will not be a collector's item. You will make mistakes. Hopefully your second model will be better than your first. Today, as I build models, I still make mistakes, and as the model goes forward, I tend to remember them more than the successes, but after the model has been sitting for a while in its case in my study, I look at it and realize, wow! This is a good representation of XXXXX.
 
This is a difficult craft and not moving ahead until you achieve perfection, will prevent you from mastering it.
 
Roger Pellett

Many years ago, I had a friend who was interested in building a model ship. I suggested the Model Shipways Virginia Pilot Boat model which he purchased. As we worked together we often had lunch together and I would always ask how he was coming and offer help. His answer was always "I got it out but was afraid that I would mess it up." I suspect that upon his too early death, the kit was thrown out.
 
My advice to beginners would therefore be a little different:
 
Get busy and build the model before you lose interest! Your first model will not be a collector's item. You will make mistakes. Hopefully your second model will be better than your first. Today, as I build models, I still make mistakes, and as the model goes forward, I tend to remember them more than the successes, but after the model has been sitting for a while in its case in my study, I look at it and realize, wow! This is a good representation of XXXXX.
 
This is a difficult craft and not moving ahead until you achieve perfection, will prevent you from mastering it.
 
Roger Pellett

Many years ago, I had a friend who was interested in building a model ship. I suggested the Model Shipways Virginia Pilot Boat model which he purchased. As we worked together we often had lunch together and I would always ask how he was coming and offer help. His answer was always "I got it out but was afraid that I would mess it up." I suspect that upon his too early death, the kit was thrown out.
 
My advice to beginners would therefore be a little different:
 
Get busy and build the model before you lose interest! Your first model will not be a collector's item. You will make mistakes. Hopefully your second model will be better than your first. Today, as I build models, I still make mistakes, and as the model goes forward, I tend to remember them more than the successes, but after the model has been sitting for a while in its case in my study, I look at it and realize, wow! This is a good representation of XXXXX.
 
This is a difficult craft and not moving ahead until you achieve perfection, will prevent you from mastering it.
 
Roger Pellett

The Winter 2007 (volume 47, no 4) edition of the Nautical Research Journal includes an article titled Research Advice, American Beam Engines by Alan D. Frazier. In addition to discussing these engines, the article includes a list of sources for further research. Go to the NRJ website to see if a copy of the article is available as a digital download. If not call the office and see if they still have this edition of the journal to sell
 
Roger Pellett

The Winter 2007 (volume 47, no 4) edition of the Nautical Research Journal includes an article titled Research Advice, American Beam Engines by Alan D. Frazier. In addition to discussing these engines, the article includes a list of sources for further research. Go to the NRJ website to see if a copy of the article is available as a digital download. If not call the office and see if they still have this edition of the journal to sell
 
Roger Pellett

Hi Sal, John Elwood here,
 
I presume you've been aboard the SS Ticonderoga at the Shelburne Museum
in Burlington, VT. If not, here's a little video of her including the walking beam.
 

 
John

Sal:
The article Roger mentioned is not yet available in the store but I am checking to see if it has been converted to go up onto the site or not.  If it has been converted I can arrange to get it o you for the same fee as listed on the web site store.  we have a lot more articles than are listed ready to go but we are contemplating a site revision and don't want to make double work for the web masters.  Those additional articles will be available once we sort out if we are going to change.  Otherwise I can print the pages in question off the CD's we sell, with all of the Journals archived, and can arrange to mail it to you.
I will post here when I find out one way or the other about the availability / method.
 
Kurt

The Winter 2007 (volume 47, no 4) edition of the Nautical Research Journal includes an article titled Research Advice, American Beam Engines by Alan D. Frazier. In addition to discussing these engines, the article includes a list of sources for further research. Go to the NRJ website to see if a copy of the article is available as a digital download. If not call the office and see if they still have this edition of the journal to sell
 
Roger Pellett

The Winter 2007 (volume 47, no 4) edition of the Nautical Research Journal includes an article titled Research Advice, American Beam Engines by Alan D. Frazier. In addition to discussing these engines, the article includes a list of sources for further research. Go to the NRJ website to see if a copy of the article is available as a digital download. If not call the office and see if they still have this edition of the journal to sell
 
Roger Pellett

The Winter 2007 (volume 47, no 4) edition of the Nautical Research Journal includes an article titled Research Advice, American Beam Engines by Alan D. Frazier. In addition to discussing these engines, the article includes a list of sources for further research. Go to the NRJ website to see if a copy of the article is available as a digital download. If not call the office and see if they still have this edition of the journal to sell
 
Roger Pellett

Sal,
 
That's a neat prototype, to be sure. Just to clarify, the placement of the paddle wheels isn't diagnostic of the boat's design or location. Western river boats used both stern and side wheel designs, as each has its benefits and drawbacks.
 
Stern wheels were generally better for shallow or snag-filled water, as the hull protected the wheel, whereas side wheels were quite susceptible to damage being exposed on the sides. In addition, stern wheels could be used to help a boat cross shallow bars or back off muddy shorelines; setting the wheel in reverse forced lots of water under the hull, "floating" it off an obstacle.
 
On the other hand, side wheels were more maneuverable, as they could be independently stopped or run in opposite directions, spinning the boat in place (at least on later designs with separate engines for each wheel). They also distributed the weight of machinery closer to the center of the vessel, reducing the "hogging" so common on stern wheel designs.
 
For rivers like the Hudson, which were deep and tame compared to the western rivers, side wheelers made a lot more sense, so that's what you mostly see. This is also true of the lower Mississippi, below the confluence of the Missouri and Ohio rivers into the main stem. But you saw a lot more stern wheelers as you went upstream to the upper Ohio and Missouri rivers in particular, and their smaller tributaries.
 
This is also the case because the western rivers, especially the Missouri, tended to have a lot of debris in them because their basins' geology wasn't as dominated by bedrock. Banks were always eroding away in huge chunks, dropping wads of trees into the river, and changing the rivers' courses regularly. By contrast, most eastern rivers like the Hudson are bedrock-dominated; they don't change course much at all and they don't erode their banks in the same way, so they tended to be "cleaner" of debris with more stable channels, negating the main benefits of stern wheel designs. So you tended to see side wheelers in the east, and a mix of the two in the West depending on where the boat's main work was intended to be (and various other factors, it's not quite this cut and dry).
 
This is a broad overview, there are many per-river details that I could write a small book on. But hopefully that clarifies part of the question. Personally I don't have any resources to suggest about walking-beam engines, but hopefully someone else does. I've seen examples on craft from various parts of the world, so hope that someone else here can help you out. I hope you can find resources specific to eastern boats, as the designs and construction will be pretty different from the western boats, due to differences in materials, industrial capacity, design philosophy, and river conditions between the two regions. But the placement of the wheels, on its own, isn't a factor.

In this context, "western" means the river basins west of the Appalachian Mountains. When steamboat technology was developing in the early 19th century, this area (including the Ohio basin) was still the frontier, and nearly isolated from the developed part of the country along the Atlantic seaboard. Much of the design and technology that went into steamboat construction on the upper Ohio River, where almost all the boats used along the Mississippi, Missouri, and Ohio rivers (and their tributaries) were built, was fairly indigenous and not imported from elsewhere. This is especially true since conditions on these rivers were very different from most rivers draining east into the Atlantic. So we talk about "western river boats" to mean the unique set of designs and construction methods that arose in that region, distinguishing these craft from the very different boats built for eastern rivers like the Hudson. Even as late as the Civil War, this region was still considered the "West"; it wasn't until the development of railroads that the Mississippi basin really became integrated into the rest of the country.
 
It gets a bit messier once you go west of the Rockies, to boats operating on the Columbia and other Pacific rivers. But as far as I know, these mostly derived their designs from the original "western" boats and so still qualify as such.

Several days ago there was a discussion on a build log regarding research for the steamer Chaperone and I questioned the absence of characteristic Ohio River yawl boats on a couple of well detailed models. It turned out that photographic evidence proved me wrong, but my question generated interest and a suggestion was made to move the discussion to this site, so here goes.
 
To me, most interesting thing about American Western Rivers steamboats was the way that innovators built these vessels to adapt to the then hostile environment that existed before the rivers were "tamed" with the current system of locks and dams. Conditions varied from very high water and swift currents to very shallow water. It was supposedly said that these boats could float on a heavy dew. In these low water conditions these boats using a system of heavy spars, tackles and their steam capstans could actually be lifted over sandbars.
 
Overcoming these navigational hazards also required a sturdy work boat to haul heavy hawsers ashore. Secured to large trees, these lines could warp the boats ahead. For this purpose, a specialized distinctive workboat called an Ohio River Yawl Boat was developed. Howard Chapelle described these boats in his American Small Sailing Craft. These boats were wide flat bottomed skiffs with considerable keel rocker and flaring top sides. This allowed the boat to carry heavy loads in very shallow water with ample stability.
 
Modellers wishing to include one of these boats on a steamboat model will find much information on the Internet. Googling Ohio River Yawl Boat will yield a number of interesting sites. First, there is a discussion on wooden boat.com, subheading Ohio/Mississippi River Skiff Yawl about these boats. Google books also has published Chapelle's small craft book. Both of these sources include Chapelle's drawings of representative craft. There is also an interesting article about Marietta, Ohio boatbuilder adapting this indigenous design to produce a inexpensive boat for high school age rowers.
 
Roger Pellett

Several days ago there was a discussion on a build log regarding research for the steamer Chaperone and I questioned the absence of characteristic Ohio River yawl boats on a couple of well detailed models. It turned out that photographic evidence proved me wrong, but my question generated interest and a suggestion was made to move the discussion to this site, so here goes.
 
To me, most interesting thing about American Western Rivers steamboats was the way that innovators built these vessels to adapt to the then hostile environment that existed before the rivers were "tamed" with the current system of locks and dams. Conditions varied from very high water and swift currents to very shallow water. It was supposedly said that these boats could float on a heavy dew. In these low water conditions these boats using a system of heavy spars, tackles and their steam capstans could actually be lifted over sandbars.
 
Overcoming these navigational hazards also required a sturdy work boat to haul heavy hawsers ashore. Secured to large trees, these lines could warp the boats ahead. For this purpose, a specialized distinctive workboat called an Ohio River Yawl Boat was developed. Howard Chapelle described these boats in his American Small Sailing Craft. These boats were wide flat bottomed skiffs with considerable keel rocker and flaring top sides. This allowed the boat to carry heavy loads in very shallow water with ample stability.
 
Modellers wishing to include one of these boats on a steamboat model will find much information on the Internet. Googling Ohio River Yawl Boat will yield a number of interesting sites. First, there is a discussion on wooden boat.com, subheading Ohio/Mississippi River Skiff Yawl about these boats. Google books also has published Chapelle's small craft book. Both of these sources include Chapelle's drawings of representative craft. There is also an interesting article about Marietta, Ohio boatbuilder adapting this indigenous design to produce a inexpensive boat for high school age rowers.
 
Roger Pellett

Several days ago there was a discussion on a build log regarding research for the steamer Chaperone and I questioned the absence of characteristic Ohio River yawl boats on a couple of well detailed models. It turned out that photographic evidence proved me wrong, but my question generated interest and a suggestion was made to move the discussion to this site, so here goes.
 
To me, most interesting thing about American Western Rivers steamboats was the way that innovators built these vessels to adapt to the then hostile environment that existed before the rivers were "tamed" with the current system of locks and dams. Conditions varied from very high water and swift currents to very shallow water. It was supposedly said that these boats could float on a heavy dew. In these low water conditions these boats using a system of heavy spars, tackles and their steam capstans could actually be lifted over sandbars.
 
Overcoming these navigational hazards also required a sturdy work boat to haul heavy hawsers ashore. Secured to large trees, these lines could warp the boats ahead. For this purpose, a specialized distinctive workboat called an Ohio River Yawl Boat was developed. Howard Chapelle described these boats in his American Small Sailing Craft. These boats were wide flat bottomed skiffs with considerable keel rocker and flaring top sides. This allowed the boat to carry heavy loads in very shallow water with ample stability.
 
Modellers wishing to include one of these boats on a steamboat model will find much information on the Internet. Googling Ohio River Yawl Boat will yield a number of interesting sites. First, there is a discussion on wooden boat.com, subheading Ohio/Mississippi River Skiff Yawl about these boats. Google books also has published Chapelle's small craft book. Both of these sources include Chapelle's drawings of representative craft. There is also an interesting article about Marietta, Ohio boatbuilder adapting this indigenous design to produce a inexpensive boat for high school age rowers.
 
Roger Pellett

As long as we are critiquing this model kit, a discrepancy appears to be the use of generic round bottom ships boats.
 
Western Rivers steamships were outfitted with specialized flat bottom yawl boats. These boats had wide sterns and flaring topsides to allow heavy loads, particularly heavy mooring lines to be carried over the stern without capsizing. This is a distinctive feature of these vessels that the kit producers probably ignored in favor of stock fittings.
 
The Ohio River Museum in Marietta, Ohio has one of these boats on display, but that won't do you much good in Scotland. Drawings of these boats are included in American Small Sailing Craft, pages 98 and 99 by Howard Chapelle if you can find a copy and plans have been published in the Nautical Research Journal at least once. The Ohio River Museum has a website. They are also related to the Campus Martius museum also in Marietta and it might be easier to talk or email a live person there.
 
Roger Pellett

Hi Kurt,
 
The boat in the first photo is not an Ohio River Yawl boat. It does look like some sort of round bottomed boat. The boats in the next two photos are typical Ohio River yawls- fairly wide and their top sides show considerable flair all the way back to the transom. I have no idea what the boat in the fourth photo is. It almost looks like a lumberman's bateau.
 
Alan Bates includes a brief description of these yawl boats in his Western Rivers Steamboat Cyclopedium.
 
I'll have to do some searching to find the information that I am looking for in the NRJ.
 
So it appears that Chaperon had a variety of boats during her life. That's not hard to believe.
 
Roger

Hi Kurt,
 
The boat in the first photo is not an Ohio River Yawl boat. It does look like some sort of round bottomed boat. The boats in the next two photos are typical Ohio River yawls- fairly wide and their top sides show considerable flair all the way back to the transom. I have no idea what the boat in the fourth photo is. It almost looks like a lumberman's bateau.
 
Alan Bates includes a brief description of these yawl boats in his Western Rivers Steamboat Cyclopedium.
 
I'll have to do some searching to find the information that I am looking for in the NRJ.
 
So it appears that Chaperon had a variety of boats during her life. That's not hard to believe.
 
Roger

As long as we are critiquing this model kit, a discrepancy appears to be the use of generic round bottom ships boats.
 
Western Rivers steamships were outfitted with specialized flat bottom yawl boats. These boats had wide sterns and flaring topsides to allow heavy loads, particularly heavy mooring lines to be carried over the stern without capsizing. This is a distinctive feature of these vessels that the kit producers probably ignored in favor of stock fittings.
 
The Ohio River Museum in Marietta, Ohio has one of these boats on display, but that won't do you much good in Scotland. Drawings of these boats are included in American Small Sailing Craft, pages 98 and 99 by Howard Chapelle if you can find a copy and plans have been published in the Nautical Research Journal at least once. The Ohio River Museum has a website. They are also related to the Campus Martius museum also in Marietta and it might be easier to talk or email a live person there.
 
Roger Pellett

As long as we are critiquing this model kit, a discrepancy appears to be the use of generic round bottom ships boats.
 
Western Rivers steamships were outfitted with specialized flat bottom yawl boats. These boats had wide sterns and flaring topsides to allow heavy loads, particularly heavy mooring lines to be carried over the stern without capsizing. This is a distinctive feature of these vessels that the kit producers probably ignored in favor of stock fittings.
 
The Ohio River Museum in Marietta, Ohio has one of these boats on display, but that won't do you much good in Scotland. Drawings of these boats are included in American Small Sailing Craft, pages 98 and 99 by Howard Chapelle if you can find a copy and plans have been published in the Nautical Research Journal at least once. The Ohio River Museum has a website. They are also related to the Campus Martius museum also in Marietta and it might be easier to talk or email a live person there.
 
Roger Pellett

As long as we are critiquing this model kit, a discrepancy appears to be the use of generic round bottom ships boats.
 
Western Rivers steamships were outfitted with specialized flat bottom yawl boats. These boats had wide sterns and flaring topsides to allow heavy loads, particularly heavy mooring lines to be carried over the stern without capsizing. This is a distinctive feature of these vessels that the kit producers probably ignored in favor of stock fittings.
 
The Ohio River Museum in Marietta, Ohio has one of these boats on display, but that won't do you much good in Scotland. Drawings of these boats are included in American Small Sailing Craft, pages 98 and 99 by Howard Chapelle if you can find a copy and plans have been published in the Nautical Research Journal at least once. The Ohio River Museum has a website. They are also related to the Campus Martius museum also in Marietta and it might be easier to talk or email a live person there.
 
Roger Pellett

The longboat is finished! Work really slowed down as summer kicked in, and I struggled some with getting the standing rigging right, but it's done. I'm not happy with the quality of the deadeyes supplied in the kit; the holes are drilled in really uneven patterns, but I chose the best ones and made do. I had difficulty getting the tiny ironwork right, too, as you can likely see in the photo below, but like the rest of the model, it passes the "more than a foot away" test. Especially since the only folks who will likely ever see it will know less about sailing than I do!
 

 
I made four oars, but left out the anchor and windlass handles, because I decided I wanted the hull to look cleaner and less cluttered. The sails add a lot of life to the model, and I decided that was enough. I built a simple base, mounting the boat on thin wire inserted into holes drilled into the keel and base. This allowed me to bend the wire slightly, heeling the boat over onto her port side a bit, as she would be with the sails set this way. I think it adds some life to the display. Here's a photo gallery of the completed longboat.
 






 
I'm pretty pleased with the overall outcome. It wouldn't win any awards at a show, for sure, but it's pleasing to the eye. The sails and the new color scheme make it feel unique, and gave me a feeling of ownership over a very common kit.
 
Many thanks to all of you who followed along, offered advice and encouragement, and politely overlooked my shortcomings. And thanks to Chuck for such an interesting little kit.

Nice job planking the hull! Did you have to steam planks to fit the bilge radius?
 
Roger