mikiek

There's bound to be a simple way to do this. The MS Niagara plans say to cut an octagonal foot and a matching brace. I think all the pix I have ever seen show rectagonal foot as wide as the keel with the braces being just flat scrap glued on each side of the keel notch. Either way, how do you get a nicely centered, even cut on the dowel? Firstly how do you measure it out and secondly how do you cut it? Inquiring newbie's want to know. I imaging I'll just go for the rectagonal cut, but I'd like to know how one would get an even sided octagonal foot? If I am not mistaken, there are several parts that are called for being octagonal.

Well I tried laying down some tape on scrap wood and then painting on the frisket with a little overlap onto the tape. The frisket takes forever to dry so I gave it overnight. Next day, tried pulling the tape off in the hopes that the overlapping frisket would come off with the tape. It didn't. So I ended up with little flaps of frisket hanging out into the area to be painted. It may have worked better running a knife down the edge of the tape first. It's starting to get more troublesome. Beginning to think I'll just do it the usual way - lots of tape and cutting around edges. The Tamiya tape seems to cut very easily.

David - great idea! I like the way you are thinking. I have finished the outward bulwark planking so I have the starboard bulwark covered. That means tomorrow is a paint day. I will be sure to give your idea a try.

David - what you are referring to is the frisket I mentioned in the OP. It can be applied with a brush, which I like. I am having some problems after the application, cutting straight edges with an Exacto. Same story with the rubber cement. It doesn't peel away evenly at the cut.

Ulises - good point. This is my first paint job so I don't know yet know how the time gets divied out. Philo - I am building the deck outside of the model so that won't be an issue, but I can see how some cutouts might be helpful - maybe even reusable on the port side when I get around to doing that. I ordered some wide Tamiya tape today. This will help make masking large areas easier I'm sure.

I've completed the starboard inward bulkwark planking on my Niagra build - my first. For those not familiar with the Model Shipways kit, the bulwarks and hull planking will all be painted. The waterway & plankshear will be red, the inner bulwark walls are green and the edges around the gun/oar ports are red. I'm hoping to be able to use an airbrush for as much of this as possible. Given all that, I assume there will need to be a lot of masking going on. Some of those areas would be pretty tough to lay down some masking tape so I've been playing around with frisket and rubber cement a little bit to see if I can use that to mask some of the areas as an alternative. Frisket in particular, can be applied with a small detail brush. My first attempt was on some raw scrap wood. That didn't work well as the wood seemed to soak it up and made it difficult to get off. Then I tried it on some primed wood and it worked much better - pretty easy to remove it. So I may use that in some places. I'm interested to hear what you guys think of this and any other suggestions you may have.

It has been a few weeks since I looked at the Niagra practicum - jbshan the site is www.shipmodeling.ca (most of the access is for a fee). I did so today and there are a couple of things I didn't mention in my 1st post. He uses 1/16" x 3/32" planks instead of 1/4" squares - no big deal there. He also uses the same strips to make a deck edging for plank ends to sit on. The edging is part of the completed deck and gets moved with the deck when it is installed in the model. Several of you mentioned the tumblehome, which as a newbie, I had to look up. I think for Niagra this will not be an issue. The bulwark planking either angles outward slightly or goes straight up. I think there would be plenty of room to drop in a completed deck. This is a point I will have to remember for future models. Jaager, your point on experimenting is well taken. What's the worse that can happen? I have to go buy some more deck planking. The experience gained outweighs any negative.

Thanks Mark - good point about using the specific forums.

Seems like it took forever, but I finally have the starboard inward bulwark planking finished. The pix show I still have a few gaps to fill at the bottom and under the rail. The planking at the bow was a lot easier than I expected. I just bent some planking before installing. One plank at the top had to be shaped to fill an arc shaped gap but that was not a big deal. I have been using Tamiya putty (grey) to fill and smooth some other places. I apply it with a small tool, then wipe it smooth with a paper towel and some laquer thinner. This makes for a thin layer that is easily sanded. I would appreciate hearing from any of you that can compare the Tamiya putty with other fillers. Getting worried that I may have built myself into a corner with regards to painting. Like many, I did paint the waterway & plankshear before installing them, but they got messed up with primer and putty along the way. So I have those to paint red along with the edges of the ports and the planking to be green. I would like to use an airbrush so I guess I need to mask and spray the red and then mask the painted part and spray green? I've been playing around with frisket and rubber cement a little bit to see if I can use that to mask some of the areas that would be tough to mask with tape. My first attempt was on some raw wood. That didn't work well as the wood seemed to soak it up and made it difficult to get off. Then I tried it on some primed wood and it worked much better - pretty easy to remove it. So I may use that in some places. The outward bulwark planking is about 1/3 finished. Although it is very repetitive, I am enjoying this part of the build. It's nice to get some of the frame covered up. Niagara is beginning to look a little bit like a boat!

I have been working on my Niagra model (my first). I have a practicum for this kit and the guy building it suggests building the deck separately and then installing the completed deck afterwards. A few of the steps are: 1. Make a copy of the deck from the plans. 2. On the copy, where the bulkhead frames show on the deck plan, glue a 1/4" square strip running across the deck right behind each bulkhead. So you end up with a bunch of strips to use a platform to lay the deck planks 3. On the real model, cut a 1/4" square notch in the keel right behind each bulkhead frame. 4. Build your deck over the plan copy on top of the square strips. 5. When you are done, pull the deck with the strips off the plan copy and install as one piece on the model. The 1/4" strips will fit into the notches cut in step 3. Does this sound reasonable? It seems like it would be a lot easier than reaching into the deck area on the model which already has the bulwark planking almost completed. I'm trying to think of reasons this might not work.

That makes sense. I'm trying to prime the bulwark planks right now so the target is about 1 1/2" tall and about 14" wide. So maybe one low pass and one high pass would be enough. I really thought the quick sprays would do it, but I'll give the pass idea a try.

First off, I'm new to this whole modeling gig so I have had to do a lot of experimenting. Regarding painting on wood, or more accurately priming. I have tried hand painting (Valejo Poly), airbrushing (Valejo Poly unthinned) and spray cans (Krylon). Obviously the airbrush did the best job, but priming is a mass coverage process. For convenience, the spray can wins out, but I am getting too much primer on the wood. Even with quick bursts from 10"-12" away I can see the overage. I'm hoping you guys can provide a few pointers on spray can technique. Or should I go back to the airbrush?

Been working on the starboard gun/oar ports. As a matter of fact the ports are finished on that side. They don't look as good as what I have seen from some of you but I am happy with them. Besides most of it will end up under the bulwark planking any way. I did learn one lesson, most of you experienced modelers would say duh. I got so engrossed with constructing the ports from the outward side that I didn't look at them from the inward side until I was done. Everything is nice and flush on the outside, but the inside will require some sanding to get that all flush. Moving on to the inward bulwark planking. I decided not to do anything with the rail until the bulwark planking is complete. That leaves me a little more room to work.

Forgot to mention 2 things. 1. With this cap strip on the timberheads I can FINALLY move on to framing the gunports. 2. I have not broken a timberhead since adding the cap. It's been over 24 hours!

Well I did not hear back from anyone so I made the decision to mount the 3/32 square strip with the outside being flush with the outside of the timberheads. I cut the strip into 5 smaller pieces so they were easier to work with. Same concept as the hull planks - there really wasn't a 123' piece of lumber to use for the real build. It came out OK. There is some overhang on the inward side of the timberheads (measurements are a little inconsistent) but I'm just going to substitute that for the 1/16 inward stringer called for in the plans. I will still add the outward 3/64 stringer. In retrospect, instead of a square I would have used something like a 1/16x3/32 strip laid edgewise. With a little sanding this would have eliminated the overhang and I could then add the inward and outward stringers called for in the plans. I also added the 2 strakes under the gun ports, again using multiple pieces of strip instead of 1 long one. I did some beveling on the edges first and was really pleased with how well the 2 strakes snugged up against each other. I will definitely follow that process when It's time to plank the rest of the hull. I would like to find a better way to do the beveling. I could not get a consistent bevel from one end of the plank to the other. Also, I found I removed a lot of material from the plank. This could make it tough when I draw up the plank bands as the calculated width of the bands (based on 8 planks) may not match up with reality after I bevel the plank edges.

I am still debating question #5 - adding a 3/32 square strip to the top of the timberheads. With all the fairing and getting the plankshare to fit, my frame timberheads are much thinner than they started out. The inward/outward as well as the bow/stern dimensions. So when I put the square on top it is wider than the timberheads and overhangs somewhat. I can't decide whether to : A. Make the square flush to the outward side of the timberhead and leave all the overhang on the inward side. B. Just the opposite, allow the overhang on the outward side of the timberheads (I doubt if this option is correct) C. Center the square strip on the timberheads so there is the same amount of overhang inwards and outwards. D. Install the square strip and then sand so that there is no overhang anywhere. Going this route it would make more sense to use a 1/16 x 3/32 strip instead of a square so there is less to sand. If I am reading the plans correctly, there should be a 5/32 width platform for supporting the rail. On the plans that is achieved by adding an inner and outer stiffener to the timberhead. All of my options will still require at least 1 additional strip (1/16?) to get the width stated on the plans. Somehow I am getting the feeling I am overthinking this....

I have debated starting a build log for some time. Mainly because I fear I won’t keep it up. Also, there seems to be a rash of Niagara builders out there right now – many with great detailed logs. I’ve been at it for about 6 weeks so I’m also wondering why start a log now? Add to all that, I’m terrible with pics in posts. Goodness knows I could use the help. I haven’t assembled a model in 45 years. I’ve never tried a wooden one or one this detailed. I also have no real woodworking experience. It was just a wild hair that got me started. I saw a few models on display and decided I wanted to try. So why Niagara and not something a little more simple? After browsing model kits for several weeks I realized that all the ones that caught my attention were the 2 masted Brig/Schooner kits. They had enough complexity but still had a simple, clean look about them. They just seemed to grab me. Research seemed to indicate that Model Shipways instructions/plans were better than most so that seemed like a plus. In hindsight I am debating that fact now. Sooo, I began this ordeal on 10/05/15. I’ve assembled the hull & bulkhead frames – got them reinforced, squared & faired. Sadly, I did not take any pics during that process. I added the filler blocks and really struggled with the stern ones for a couple of weeks. The plans were absolutely no help. I came across a website that actually had a practicum for Niagara (for $$$). This builder took a different approach that seemed to make sense (1 piece per side rather than inner and corner fillers), but I felt like I was still missing something. Getting tired of fretting over it, I went that route. But it turns out I missed some of his details - there was a bit of a language barrier. Then, I went back to the 2 piece approach. I actually had a nicely shaped inner block(s) but couldn’t figure out the corner block. What I was gleaning from the plans just made no sense. Of course that was probably my ineptitude. Then I found this site and was excited to see several Niagara build logs, however the first few I came across on this site seemed to gloss over the topic. Then I came across lb0190’s (Larry) log - http://www.modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/313-niagara-by-lb0190-model-shipways-wood-pob-164th-lb0190/ - and that got the wheels turning (posts 7-12). Finally – the corner block shape should take on the profile of the outer horn timber. That was the missing link for me – easy enough to carve out, but weeks wasted getting to that point. Like Larry admits, I busted up the horn timbers more times than I will admit (bulwark timberheads as well). Also, I did not realize the notches in the horn timbers for the Arch Board were at different offsets so I ended up with the outer horns on the inside. I further mangled those up by chipping them out, so I ended up cutting an entire new set. My new scroll saw proved invaluable (and fun) there. I have a question about those notches which I’ll ask at the end of my speech. About the same time, I began my indecision with placement of the stern Quarter Stanchions. I came across lots of pics but most all had the stanchions partially covered with other parts, so there was no clear view. The plans could/should have given some measurement of the spacing from the outer horn timber – no help again. I have seen some pics where the bottom edge ran parallel to the stern and others where the edge was parallel to the side of the ship. I finally came across a statement saying that the external bulwark planking was supposed to lay on the outside edge of the stanchion and terminate at the stern edge. So clamping some planks to the outer side of the timberheads and seeing where they ended up (at the stern) gave me the clue I needed to place the stanchions. That was another week long inquisition. Still not sure if I got that right, but it seems to make sense. So that’s about where I am right now. The transom is framed but not yet planked. It was truly a relief to have that part of the assembly behind me! I apologize for the length of this post. I will attempt to be less verbose as things progress. I do have a few general observations: 1. I finally found a use for a Dremel tool. I have owned one for 15 years but never used it for anything other than grinding/sharpening my lawn mower blade. In a lot of cases I now find myself using the Dremel to cut (grind) pieces and also to do a lot of the rough filing. I do have to wonder if this is sacrilege to the long time modeler/woodworker. 2. I had hoped this was going to be a relaxing thing to do. To the contrary, I have found myself really stressing over many aspects of the build so far. There was a real sense of relief when I finished the transom framing last week! 3. I have a much steadier hand than I thought I would working with small detailed parts. Questions: 1. The notches for the Arch Board on the underside of the horn timbers are in different places. The inner 4 all line up the same but the 2 outer horns have the notch slightly closer to the stern. What is the point with this? Is the Arch Board supposed to arc (arch) a little to fit in all the notches? I can say a straight piece will not fit in all the notches. I did go ahead and spile a slight arch into the arch board so it fits the notches. But it also causes some grief – see question 2. 2. Still at the stern, the exterior transom planks look like they are stacked up on top of the Arch Board. Most pics also show them and the arch board slightly arcedupwards. My arch board did not do this. I ended up cutting a "filler" plank very thin, arching the top and glueing that to the top of the arch board. When I go to add the rest of the transom planks, they will follow the arc - at least that's the plan. 3. In placing the Planksheer pieces, I have noticed the notches that fit around the timberheads are way off in some places. A few by as much as ¼” - 3/8” off. I realize this can be adjusted, but is this much deviation normal? I cam across a few statements saying not to make adjustments to the planksheer. Instead do it all to the timberheads - even if that means they come out very thin. 4. I need to get the chocks for the mast feet glued to the keel before I forget. The plans show an octagonal foot although most pics I see the foot is rectangular. Any thoughts there? How in the world do you cut a cylindrical shape (the mast) into an octagonal one? 5. During the gun port framing process (my next step) several of you have stated do not add the upper & lower strip to the framing as suggested by the plans. Instead run a 3/32 square strip along the top of the timberheads. I'm headed down that path but I'm wondering where the square starts and terminates. At the stern does it go all the way to the transom - I saw 1 log where it stopped at bulkhead Q. At the bow, does it start at bulkhead A or all the way at the timberhead we added into the bow filler block? This site has really been a blessing so far. I wonder how many total years of modeling knowledge we have at our fingertips. I look forward to hearing from you and even getting to a point where I can contribute. Sail on….

Scott - looks like you and I are at about the same place on the same model. This is my first. I'm having trouble visualizing the stern filler blocks based on the plans. I cut one set based on the plans but they are way too big. I do realize they can be sanded down but I feel like I am missing something. If/when you get yours shaped would you mind posting a few pix. Especially a top down view. Many thanks....

Hi All - my first post here regarding my first attempt at a wooden model MS Niagra. Just got started a couple of weeks ago and things have progressed OK so far. Bulkhead frames are installed with reinforcements, frame edges are faired. Now I'm getting back to the stern and hit a wall with the filler blocks. I made a couple (port & starboard) based on the plans and they seem way too big. I realize that plans are just that and are not the final word - you have to make due with what you have at hand. I will admit that the 3-D drawings in the plans are confusing me a bit. For instance, using a stern view of the boat and focusing on the starboard filler - I have it shaped to the edge of the last frame "Q". Moving to a side view of the starboard, the filler "plane" has been shaped to follow the bearding line. It's the shaping that needs to happen when you look down on the stern that I can't figure out. At the moment, the filler is rectangular shaped looking from the top. I suspect it needs to taper in to the outside edge of frame "Q". But other than just eyeballing it, I don't see much to tell me what that angle would be. This is one of those areas where (for me at least) it would be helpful to put all the pieces in place, the fillers, the transom horn timbers, etc. But most of those parts don't clamp easily and I don't want to glue them permanently yet. Would something like rubber cement allow me to temporarily glue pieces but still allow me to take them down, make adjustments and try again? Thanks for reading...