Bob Fraser

Hi Dave.
This is because Dannys sheet uses active-x controls to do some of the calculations.  Google sheets doesn't alow the use of active-x.
I don't think it will run on a Chromebook, Office 365 on line also doesn't use active-x controls.
You'll need you use Excel on a PC to open the spreadsheet to get it to work as it should. 
I just ran a quick check (Dannys) and measured the results against an NMM print I have which came out exact to the drawing.
 

Hi Allan, Dave.
Allan - I'd seen that comment about the dates before, but couldn't remember it fully. Thanks for the reminder.
As you say, a fantastic resource.
I'm no expert or have extensive experience in these calculations, and my use has only been with this one ship.
The ship I based my comment on was a RN sloop built 1756/57 and would most likely have been built to the 1745 Establishment, quick mast drawing measurements taken with a brass caliper.
I would imagine that you are aware of all the different calculations over the 18th Century 🤣  I wasn't at all except for the 1745 Establishment, and was surprised by the variations 🤯
 
I was hospitalised last year for 10 days with covid and while I was there I did a little research on the sloop to give some working mast dimensions. but only from 1711 to 1794, and came up with the following table of authors.
Purely for my own benefit!
--------------------------
Dimensions for Bonetta 1756 as designed -
Deck 85’10”, Breadth 24’ 4”, Depth in Hold 10’ 10”, Keel 78’ (as per Ollivier)1, 220 40/94 tons (profile plan ZAZ4368 RMG)
Dimensions for Bonetta as built -
Deck 86ft 4in, Breadth 24’ 6”, Depth in Hold 10’ 10”, calculated Keel 78’5”, 22760/94 tons (Winfield, 2007)
 
RD is Range of Lower Gun Deck or upper deck on a single deck, EB is Extreme Breadth, DIH is Depth in Hold, K is Keel length, BMF is Beam Multiplication Factor.
 
Calculation Information
Main Mast Length (Ft In)
Beam Multiplication Factor
 
Date
Name
Formula
As Designed
As Built
As Designed
As Built
Reference
 
Davis
EB*BMF
 
 
2.66
-------------
(Marquardt, 1986)
1711
Establishment
(RD + EB) / 2
 
 
 
 
(Lees, 1979)
1719
Establishment
No Change to 1711
-------------
-------------
-------------
-------------
(Lees, 1979)
1723
Anderson
EB*BMF
 
 
2.25
-------------
(Marquardt, 1986)
1726
William Sutherland**
(((EB + DIH) * 3) / 5)*3
 
 
 
 
(Marquardt, 1986), (Sutherland, 1726)
1735
James Love
((K + EB) * 2) / 3
 
 
 
 
(Marquardt, 1986), (Love, 1705)
1737
Blaise Ollivier
EB*BMF
 
 
2.33
-------------
(Ollivier, 1737)
1745
Establishment
EB*BMF
55.479 
55'7 3/4"
 
2.28
-------------
(Lees, 1979)
1752
Duhamel Monceau 1
EB*BMF
 
 
2.5
-------------
(Marquardt, 1986), (Monceau, 1752)
1752
Duhamel Monceau 2
(EB*2) + DIH
 
 
 
 
(Marquardt, 1986), (Monceau, 1752)
1756
William Mountaine
(K + EB) / 2
 
 
 
 
(Marquardt, 1986),(Mountaine, 1767)
1768
Chapman
EB*BMF
 
 
2.43
------------
(Marquardt, 1986)
1794
Steel
(RD + EB) / 2
55.083
55'1"
 
 
-------------
(Steel, 1794)
** EB+DIH in feet, multiply by 2 and then divide by 5 = length in yards. Multiply by 3 = feet and part.
------------------------
Hoping my calculations above are right, Dannys spreadsheet first entry for a sloop is 1794, and his calculations came out as 55' 7" to 3 decimal places, 55' 6" to 2 decimals for the inches part as input.
Looks like the 1745 Establishment is used up to at least that date in the spreadsheet, as per Lees. Steels dimensions come out smaller.
 
I have the Lees and Marquardt books, Love, Monceau, Mountaine, Sutherland are available as Google books.
 
Dave - I think even an XP based laptop with Excel on it will run the spreadsheet.
BTW, a distant cousin of mine captained Diana in 1799!
 
 

Hi Dave.
This is because Dannys sheet uses active-x controls to do some of the calculations.  Google sheets doesn't alow the use of active-x.
I don't think it will run on a Chromebook, Office 365 on line also doesn't use active-x controls.
You'll need you use Excel on a PC to open the spreadsheet to get it to work as it should. 
I just ran a quick check (Dannys) and measured the results against an NMM print I have which came out exact to the drawing.
 

Hi Dave.
This is because Dannys sheet uses active-x controls to do some of the calculations.  Google sheets doesn't alow the use of active-x.
I don't think it will run on a Chromebook, Office 365 on line also doesn't use active-x controls.
You'll need you use Excel on a PC to open the spreadsheet to get it to work as it should. 
I just ran a quick check (Dannys) and measured the results against an NMM print I have which came out exact to the drawing.
 

Decks planked, tar effect created using a sharpie black felt on the edges, they will be lightly sanded and marked into plank lengths. I doubt I will put in the Trenails, I have done time on tall ships and I do not recall you can see them, they are usually set into the plank and plugged over, otherwise they would soon rust, and rip open bare feet and holy stones!

The foundation of the bulwarks have been added, Walnut beading 5x5mm, they will be sanded to shape later and added to. The instructions say to use mahogany veneer to mark the steps in the deck, but the kit does not have any so I am using the dark veneer second layer planks.

A bit of research shows the company: Artesania Latina, ceased trading a while back but restarted with re-engineered kits, so I likely have one of the old pattern models. Note there are no pre-drilled holes for masts on this version.

Up to now I have only used Gorilla Wood Glue, I dislike CA, it does speed things up, but I find it has a habit of migrating where it is not wanted, and setting into a messy, brittle crystal-like blob when the surfaces do not mate closely. I like Gorilla as it is happy to be thinned with water when a thin application is needed, such as laying veneer, bridges well and sets strong and clear.
 

Billings boats direct - Cutty Sark  topright of the blurb are links to instructions and riging manual

Put shrink wrap tubing on the ends of those clamps.  Wont come off.

ALs rigging diagram is a bit confusing, took a while using the big picture and the photo manual.
I opted to be awkward and installed 2 of the things! 1 up and 1 lowered, the height can be a personal choice. whatever looks good to you.

I was not looking forward to the gangway rigging.
 

I don’t know how to tie rigging knots; I’ve seen some fancy knots in various pictures on the forum but they are beyond my skill.  I looked into one and it resembled a fishing knot but it was too difficult to tie on a small scale so I went with simple knots and CA glue to accomplish this task.  
 

I tied a simple overhand knot and tried to lasso the groves in a block but that was too hard.  I placed thread in the grove on one side and applied thin CA glue.  When the glue set, I tied an overhand knot on the other side and applied thin CA glue.  I extended the two threads and applied CA glue at the ends of the two threads to make it easier to tie a knot later.  I looped the thread around a mast and wrapped it around the thread between the block and mast and applied CA glue to hold it in place.  I tied a half hitch to complete installation.
 

I found pictures in Bob Fraser's log (thread #68) to be very helpful (mast pictures). 
 


I found it difficult to work the rigging while the mast and gangway moved around.  Parts of the routing didn’t make sense; I wasn’t sure where some lines ended.  Working with 0.15 mm rigging and sewing thread required a level of precision I lack. 
 

The gangway ended up much higher than it should, I had adjusted the lines to get the gangway to the proper height but between sorting out the spaghetti of lines and taking up slack it had moved.  I was focused on getting the knots tied and didn’t notice the change.  After installing the rigging, I have a better idea how it works.  I determined which lines control the gangway height and I think I have enough line to fix it.  The gangway chains are unequal (I had adjusted them once already) so I have more to do. 
 

I installed the lower deck railings; the small clothes pins were the right size.  I held off on these to leave access to rigging tie downs. 

I had applied finish to the long walnut stock and cut it to length so I didn’t want to soak the railings to bend them; I have a wood burner with a disk tip that I used to bend the wood with heat only.  I made 10 mm railing posts on the paddle wheel deck.  I installed the beads on top of the posts like the others I had made.  I installed a short pin in the bottom of the posts, marked the deck, and drilled slightly oversized holes for the pins (to give me a bit of adjustment).  Gluing the posts pinned to the deck made a solid attachment (I wish I had done that for the posts on the top deck). 

I'm making progress.  I see I need to reapply one of the white triangle supports.  I had to use a couple deck columns for the diagonal stern columns because I ran out of material of the proper length (I made too many deck columns), I should have installed the diagonals before cutting material for the upper decks. 
 

 

Iron on transfer paper might work - use it with an ordinary inkjet. I've used this on t-shirts but not on silkspan.
Sublimation printing works the same way but needs special inks in a dedicated printer on sublimation paper, can work with an iron, but usually a heat press.
 

I need to buy a lottery ticket!

After years of being unable to assemble even a basic plastic kit I have recovered enough to contemplate improving my motor and mental skills with a wood kit and spent a morning in the library, browsing the history of unusual RN ships that have captured my imagination over the years, I narrowed the list to three: Bounty, Beagle and Endeavour. From there I went to the internet (no model shops still open in my area, sadly) and was horrified at how prices had jumped. Spotting a likely subject I put a hail Mary bid on it, and to my amazement won. Endeavour, a Colier ship built in Whitby and commanded by a Whitby native when bought by the RN, and arguably one of the most famous ships of all time. Tainted by madness and producing the infamous Captain Bligh, I love it, I like to immerse myself in the history of any model I build, and this ship has history to spare.

The main problem now is winner guilt, I feel I have robbed the charity shop I won it from, I suppose I should make a contribution rather than buy lottery tickets!

I will record the build, with apologies from the start, it is ten years since I completed a model, and it has been a long road back.

I used a drop of CA glue on the end of the line and cut it at an angle to make a point (as suggested).  That technique worked fine to get the line through the block.  I used dark brown sewing thread instead of the wire.  I tie fishing knots to lures all the time but trying to tie sewing thread is hard.  I also had a hard time tying the cotton thread for the smoke stack lines, a slip knot doesn't work on that material when trying to take up slack. 
 
I got practice working with the block on the pennant mast but the bow rigging will be a challenge. 
 

Hindsight Tip
Do the rigging before installing the railings on the top deck. 
 
I've never worked with rigging before so I put it off.  I bumped several railings off the deck when installing the smoke stack lines.  So now I'm repairing railings (some of them needed adjustments anyway). 
 

That's what I used, except I made the glue 1/2 inch to 1 inch long to act as a needle to hold, rather than holding a flexible line when threading the block.
Much easier when you've got fat fingers like me! 🤣
The needle threader doubled the line thickness and I couldn't pull it through most of the supplied blocks as the holes were too small.  Even with the glue method some holes had to be widened with a micro drill just a little.

It’s been awhile since I posted my progress (crushed hand and other things going on).
 
 Here is where I’m at so far next deck is on lighted and ready for the next part of the build.
 
 Enjoy the pictures
 

 

 

 
 

Hi Cleat.
I used wire to attach the blocks to the mast.  My mistake, I'd advise against it as the wire snapped easily when tightening it up to the mast.
Your photo shows the wire running through the hole.  It, or the rope to attach the block to the mast, should run round the groove on the outside - the hole is for the rigging to run through.
The blocks, - 1 hole is a single block, 2 holes is a double block.
Have a look here - Working with small blocks  has some tutorials on attaching blocks.
Hope this helps.

Hi Cleat.
I used wire to attach the blocks to the mast.  My mistake, I'd advise against it as the wire snapped easily when tightening it up to the mast.
Your photo shows the wire running through the hole.  It, or the rope to attach the block to the mast, should run round the groove on the outside - the hole is for the rigging to run through.
The blocks, - 1 hole is a single block, 2 holes is a double block.
Have a look here - Working with small blocks  has some tutorials on attaching blocks.
Hope this helps.

After2 years almost to the day since starting this log, I'm calling this finished. 
The upper deck brass rail was done in a single run which shows up a few flaws in the height of the posts and ended up pulling some of the loops off the top of the posts, as well as a few posts off the deck on the bow due to having to pull the curve back through the straight run and reproduce the new curve as it went through.  The kinks in the straights have been sorted.
The benches are a bit clunky, and the extra decorative works are a bit too fancy for my liking, so she's now a passenger / cargo boat.
 
As a first build the things I've learned are many, as were the mistakes 😱. (Too many to list!)
First and foremost, don't be afraid to ask for help or take advice from others who are more knowledgeable.
Save all your scraps, you never know when they'll come in handy!
Be patient, especially when bending things!
Measure a number of times before cutting.
Don't be afraid to make changes to something already made to make it look better.
Walk away when it frustrates you - it'll come right later with fresh eyes.
Try new things to extend your skill level, even if only a little you'll enjoy the challenge.
If it's a generic model lidy who has looked in, liked, commented, given advice and helped me along the way, it's been greatly appreciated.

After2 years almost to the day since starting this log, I'm calling this finished. 
The upper deck brass rail was done in a single run which shows up a few flaws in the height of the posts and ended up pulling some of the loops off the top of the posts, as well as a few posts off the deck on the bow due to having to pull the curve back through the straight run and reproduce the new curve as it went through.  The kinks in the straights have been sorted.
The benches are a bit clunky, and the extra decorative works are a bit too fancy for my liking, so she's now a passenger / cargo boat.
 
As a first build the things I've learned are many, as were the mistakes 😱. (Too many to list!)
First and foremost, don't be afraid to ask for help or take advice from others who are more knowledgeable.
Save all your scraps, you never know when they'll come in handy!
Be patient, especially when bending things!
Measure a number of times before cutting.
Don't be afraid to make changes to something already made to make it look better.
Walk away when it frustrates you - it'll come right later with fresh eyes.
Try new things to extend your skill level, even if only a little you'll enjoy the challenge.
If it's a generic model lidy who has looked in, liked, commented, given advice and helped me along the way, it's been greatly appreciated.

Building continues - delay due to lack of pics.
First up the second deck side railings.
I made a mistake - nothing new there then you might say!
When I measured the height of the uprights I measured vertically and forgot they are angled inwards 😒
Fortunately I had only cut the one length, so each was measured with eyeball MK2 - glasses 😄
All the railings had been made up previously so it was a case of line up the posts and fit them in.

Then came the stern railings The central two uprights and single railing were fitted into place to give, as much as possible, a central single rail instead of the two in the instructions.
After that the curved sections to connect to the sides.  Once the 4 curves were selected from the box the were roughly shaped and angled to fit don't forget that this is not as AL intended!

Right to left - As is after preliminary shaping, marked for grooving, grooved using a pointed diamond file, flat pointed file and the corner of a razor saw to cross the grain, and finally the PE fitted in.

Finished items fitted - just noticed I need to adjust that right hand one, it's dropped, as has one one the side!
Doesn't look like much but it was close to 8 hours.
Once the drops are fixed a touch of sanding and then oil the bare woods to match the old ones.
 
Upper deck railings after that - don't think I'll be using the PE work. Each deck will be different so i've got something in mind, just need to think about working it out.

Thanks for following along, more mods on the bow to come to individualise the build further later on
Cheers!.

So - after a year and a half of upheaval, (whole house redecorated, some rooms twice, more cupboards and shelves built into all rooms and kitchen, craft room for SHWMBO, garden levelled and tiered, grass replaced with astroturf and polytunnel greenhouse installed), I've finally got somewhere to work again, albeit the dining table!
 
During this break the ships cat has been hard at work re-arranging the tensioning rigging for the Chimneys.

The captain examines the damage - 8 ropes cut!

Says "You should fire that ships cat!"

Ships cat, Cooper, in the background not impressed, his new first mate, Styx, checks out the ongoing repairs.

Rope repairs done, and railings refixed that came off whilst repairs were being done.

Next job - more railings. 12 made up for the stern and other side, ready for exact fitting as each upright is fitted.
Uprights measured and 5 different heights for 11 of them due to the curve of the decks.
 
More soon!
 

Been a while - apologies.
Had to make the front curved rails, as only one was present. Used this as a template to draw round and cut out.

 
Original, roughed out with slot, brass railings in slot ready for top piece and trial fit before final shaping.
 
Added one of the curved front rails

 
Cheers for now,
Bob

So some progress, but sloooow!
Added the two fore stairwell surround railings

 
And started on the railings

 
Here's where it gets slow.  Each and every one of the uprights is a different height 😞  Measure, cut and micro sand to a tight fit.
Note to future self - maybe cut out the aligned holes on all decks and use one full height piece, measuring on the upper deck to get the post height right as I'm sure they'll still be all different 😱
 
The lower and upper handrails are slitted to take the P.E. railings and hold them steady. The wood not being the best and not exact along it's full length it does damage the edge slightly.

Drillhead dropped to the correct height so no deed for lowering, the brass calipers as a fence aligned at the right depth and straight, the wood can just be slid through. Just realised this was done a year ago! Time flies.
And of course

Cooper the cat had to help.  Given his name maybe I should get him making some barrels 🙂
 
Cheers for now.
Bob

Chimney rigging done, and added lateral tensioners.


Hog chains done.
Added a lateral chain at the aftmost diagonal, and a crossbeam on the sternposts. The rope was painted matt black to remove the turns, to look like iron rods, an idea stolen from @Cathead - Thanks! These were set into grooves to take them over the diagonals as on many steamers photos show they were bent to shape.
Many of them had a criss-cross of rods overhead open decks giving much more lateral and fore-aft strengthening, but I've decided not to show that as it tended to be on the smaller more open ones.
 
Next steps, the fencing and then tackle the foredeck.
 
Cheers for now,
Bob