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MESSIS

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  1. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from mtaylor in 10th-11th century Byzantine dromon by Louie da fly - FINISHED - 1:50   
    Its turning out wonderful! Its becoming colourful... it remains to make it cinemascope Steven....
     
    Wonderful, its getting every day nicer. So... row your boat my friend.
    Christos 
  2. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from Louie da fly in 10th-11th century Byzantine dromon by Louie da fly - FINISHED - 1:50   
    Its turning out wonderful! Its becoming colourful... it remains to make it cinemascope Steven....
     
    Wonderful, its getting every day nicer. So... row your boat my friend.
    Christos 
  3. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from cog in 10th-11th century Byzantine dromon by Louie da fly - FINISHED - 1:50   
    Its turning out wonderful! Its becoming colourful... it remains to make it cinemascope Steven....
     
    Wonderful, its getting every day nicer. So... row your boat my friend.
    Christos 
  4. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    Planking slow but it proceeds. The planks are very thin and break easily. Another thing is that due to the length I need more than one plank for each row.

  5. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from EJ_L in 10th-11th century Byzantine dromon by Louie da fly - FINISHED - 1:50   
    Its turning out wonderful! Its becoming colourful... it remains to make it cinemascope Steven....
     
    Wonderful, its getting every day nicer. So... row your boat my friend.
    Christos 
  6. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from Tom E in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    Planking slow but it proceeds. The planks are very thin and break easily. Another thing is that due to the length I need more than one plank for each row.

  7. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    The ancient port of Amathus.... in Cyprus
     
     


  8. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from mtaylor in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    The ancient port of Amathus.... in Cyprus
     
     


  9. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from mtaylor in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    @Louie da fly thank you very much Steven.No I was aware of the reconstruction of Argo, but I wasnt aware of the youtube video. I just saw it.. .  thank you.
     
    What I have just seen, seems to be very near to what I had in mind out of my study. Though Argo is far shorter than I think a penteconter could have been  .... I believe am more on the right side.
     
    Argo (replica), is said to be 28 meters, but if you allow a meter plus (according to the trireme Olympias expirement) for each oar's man, then you got more than  the 28 meters without the ικρία, thats the forecastle and quarter deck. Lionel Casson's calculations are favourable to my view  that a penteconter reached 40 m. That as a maximum, because above that, other issues appear (frame dynamic behaviour problems), making (for example) the existence of an exiconter εξηκόντορος (60 oars) impossible. Ofcourse there are scholars who believe that there were smaller penteconters even 28 to 30 meters. (S.Mark - Homeric Seafahring)
     
    I also have some minor objections concerning the beaklike bow, the colours  the ornamentation etc
     
    Thank you Steven for adding usefull information to my work.
     
    Christos 
     
     
     
  10. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    A sketch showing the frame and its upper and lower ζυγά, the seats σέλμα, and lastly the planking, the wale and the decks.


  11. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    Upper deck, or the bridge connecting forecastle and quarterdeck/poop deck, is done. Now is time to begin planking,
     
    That said, appears to me that I have to explain that this is not the way a penteconter was build. On  the contrary, at those ages, it was the other way around, It was build with the shell-first construction method. That is the planking was made prior to the framing of the ship. The frames were coming after planking. Of course here I could not follow this method so I proceed as the usual method frame first and then planking, that is the method that came later, after the 7th century bc.
     
    For the planking there is discussion. Were the ships planks  those days  joined together with mortise and tenons or if they were laced on each other. Although Homer describes Odysseus building a ship or some kind of a vessel, in order to leave Calypsos island, but although he explains clearly how Odysseus joins the planking, ‘’ he bored them all and fit them together and then with pegs and fasteners he hammer it together…” the various translations have produced a disagreement. In any case the laced method is the older method, that means that in Homers time most probably the new method -mortise-tenons- was used,
    Lionel Casson and many other scholars believe that probably penteconter were build with the modern method of mortise and tenons. Also at the substantial period the laced method was mostly found in wrecks around Egypt.




  12. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from mtaylor in 10th-11th century Byzantine dromon by Louie da fly - FINISHED - 1:50   
    @mtaylor 
    "... swiftly down the stream". Is this how it goes on? 🤣
  13. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from EJ_L in 10th-11th century Byzantine dromon by Louie da fly - FINISHED - 1:50   
    @mtaylor 
    "... swiftly down the stream". Is this how it goes on? 🤣
  14. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from Cathead in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    @Louie da fly thank you very much Steven.No I was aware of the reconstruction of Argo, but I wasnt aware of the youtube video. I just saw it.. .  thank you.
     
    What I have just seen, seems to be very near to what I had in mind out of my study. Though Argo is far shorter than I think a penteconter could have been  .... I believe am more on the right side.
     
    Argo (replica), is said to be 28 meters, but if you allow a meter plus (according to the trireme Olympias expirement) for each oar's man, then you got more than  the 28 meters without the ικρία, thats the forecastle and quarter deck. Lionel Casson's calculations are favourable to my view  that a penteconter reached 40 m. That as a maximum, because above that, other issues appear (frame dynamic behaviour problems), making (for example) the existence of an exiconter εξηκόντορος (60 oars) impossible. Ofcourse there are scholars who believe that there were smaller penteconters even 28 to 30 meters. (S.Mark - Homeric Seafahring)
     
    I also have some minor objections concerning the beaklike bow, the colours  the ornamentation etc
     
    Thank you Steven for adding usefull information to my work.
     
    Christos 
     
     
     
  15. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from mtaylor in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    A sketch showing the frame and its upper and lower ζυγά, the seats σέλμα, and lastly the planking, the wale and the decks.


  16. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from bruce d in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    @Louie da fly thank you very much Steven.No I was aware of the reconstruction of Argo, but I wasnt aware of the youtube video. I just saw it.. .  thank you.
     
    What I have just seen, seems to be very near to what I had in mind out of my study. Though Argo is far shorter than I think a penteconter could have been  .... I believe am more on the right side.
     
    Argo (replica), is said to be 28 meters, but if you allow a meter plus (according to the trireme Olympias expirement) for each oar's man, then you got more than  the 28 meters without the ικρία, thats the forecastle and quarter deck. Lionel Casson's calculations are favourable to my view  that a penteconter reached 40 m. That as a maximum, because above that, other issues appear (frame dynamic behaviour problems), making (for example) the existence of an exiconter εξηκόντορος (60 oars) impossible. Ofcourse there are scholars who believe that there were smaller penteconters even 28 to 30 meters. (S.Mark - Homeric Seafahring)
     
    I also have some minor objections concerning the beaklike bow, the colours  the ornamentation etc
     
    Thank you Steven for adding usefull information to my work.
     
    Christos 
     
     
     
  17. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from Cathead in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    A sketch showing the frame and its upper and lower ζυγά, the seats σέλμα, and lastly the planking, the wale and the decks.


  18. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from mtaylor in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    Upper deck, or the bridge connecting forecastle and quarterdeck/poop deck, is done. Now is time to begin planking,
     
    That said, appears to me that I have to explain that this is not the way a penteconter was build. On  the contrary, at those ages, it was the other way around, It was build with the shell-first construction method. That is the planking was made prior to the framing of the ship. The frames were coming after planking. Of course here I could not follow this method so I proceed as the usual method frame first and then planking, that is the method that came later, after the 7th century bc.
     
    For the planking there is discussion. Were the ships planks  those days  joined together with mortise and tenons or if they were laced on each other. Although Homer describes Odysseus building a ship or some kind of a vessel, in order to leave Calypsos island, but although he explains clearly how Odysseus joins the planking, ‘’ he bored them all and fit them together and then with pegs and fasteners he hammer it together…” the various translations have produced a disagreement. In any case the laced method is the older method, that means that in Homers time most probably the new method -mortise-tenons- was used,
    Lionel Casson and many other scholars believe that probably penteconter were build with the modern method of mortise and tenons. Also at the substantial period the laced method was mostly found in wrecks around Egypt.




  19. Like
  20. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from bruce d in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    A sketch showing the frame and its upper and lower ζυγά, the seats σέλμα, and lastly the planking, the wale and the decks.


  21. Like
  22. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from Kathy Teel in L' Hermione by MESSIS - Artesania Latina - 1/89 - 2nd build   
    Two jib sails  (inner jib and fore mast staysail) in position. The wind blowing I think isnt bad, but the main or standing jib, is still not going to be used.
     
    Forecourse  sail is also in place (not fully secured) but the yard is fastened through the parrel and its trucks on the mast.
     
     
     



  23. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from bruce d in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    Upper deck, or the bridge connecting forecastle and quarterdeck/poop deck, is done. Now is time to begin planking,
     
    That said, appears to me that I have to explain that this is not the way a penteconter was build. On  the contrary, at those ages, it was the other way around, It was build with the shell-first construction method. That is the planking was made prior to the framing of the ship. The frames were coming after planking. Of course here I could not follow this method so I proceed as the usual method frame first and then planking, that is the method that came later, after the 7th century bc.
     
    For the planking there is discussion. Were the ships planks  those days  joined together with mortise and tenons or if they were laced on each other. Although Homer describes Odysseus building a ship or some kind of a vessel, in order to leave Calypsos island, but although he explains clearly how Odysseus joins the planking, ‘’ he bored them all and fit them together and then with pegs and fasteners he hammer it together…” the various translations have produced a disagreement. In any case the laced method is the older method, that means that in Homers time most probably the new method -mortise-tenons- was used,
    Lionel Casson and many other scholars believe that probably penteconter were build with the modern method of mortise and tenons. Also at the substantial period the laced method was mostly found in wrecks around Egypt.




  24. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from VTHokiEE in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    Upper deck, or the bridge connecting forecastle and quarterdeck/poop deck, is done. Now is time to begin planking,
     
    That said, appears to me that I have to explain that this is not the way a penteconter was build. On  the contrary, at those ages, it was the other way around, It was build with the shell-first construction method. That is the planking was made prior to the framing of the ship. The frames were coming after planking. Of course here I could not follow this method so I proceed as the usual method frame first and then planking, that is the method that came later, after the 7th century bc.
     
    For the planking there is discussion. Were the ships planks  those days  joined together with mortise and tenons or if they were laced on each other. Although Homer describes Odysseus building a ship or some kind of a vessel, in order to leave Calypsos island, but although he explains clearly how Odysseus joins the planking, ‘’ he bored them all and fit them together and then with pegs and fasteners he hammer it together…” the various translations have produced a disagreement. In any case the laced method is the older method, that means that in Homers time most probably the new method -mortise-tenons- was used,
    Lionel Casson and many other scholars believe that probably penteconter were build with the modern method of mortise and tenons. Also at the substantial period the laced method was mostly found in wrecks around Egypt.




  25. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from Edwardkenway in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    Upper deck, or the bridge connecting forecastle and quarterdeck/poop deck, is done. Now is time to begin planking,
     
    That said, appears to me that I have to explain that this is not the way a penteconter was build. On  the contrary, at those ages, it was the other way around, It was build with the shell-first construction method. That is the planking was made prior to the framing of the ship. The frames were coming after planking. Of course here I could not follow this method so I proceed as the usual method frame first and then planking, that is the method that came later, after the 7th century bc.
     
    For the planking there is discussion. Were the ships planks  those days  joined together with mortise and tenons or if they were laced on each other. Although Homer describes Odysseus building a ship or some kind of a vessel, in order to leave Calypsos island, but although he explains clearly how Odysseus joins the planking, ‘’ he bored them all and fit them together and then with pegs and fasteners he hammer it together…” the various translations have produced a disagreement. In any case the laced method is the older method, that means that in Homers time most probably the new method -mortise-tenons- was used,
    Lionel Casson and many other scholars believe that probably penteconter were build with the modern method of mortise and tenons. Also at the substantial period the laced method was mostly found in wrecks around Egypt.




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