garyshipwright

Thanks every one. As Ed stated, am just glad to have the photo's to repost the log. I would really be in tears if I lost them. Any way here is another up date on Montagu, some thing that you don't see very often unless you are building a ship of the line, Moving past the magazine to the hold we have the floor riders. Timbers that were like the frames, accept they were installed to help strength the hull. The were very interesting to build and install and are made of pear wood. There is a set that help frame in the Ships well on the front and back and will show that when we get to building and installing the well it self. Do hope you enjoy the update, even through its the second time around. If I can find any more for this part of the build will post them. Gary

Just one more set guys and that should  bring the magazine up to speed.

Figure I would add a few more to the magazine build up. Hope know one mind

Here is a couple more showing this part of her build.



 

Here is a few more of the frame build up.
 

 

 

Hi Guys. Here is another update on bringing the log along or at least a step closer to what it was. This time its about Montagu frames which was built up using some ideals from the shipwright's of old, such as the  wooden templates the used to shape and cut out the timbers that made up the frames, accept mine are paper. My frames are drawn on the wood and cut out piece by piece and glued together on top of the frame drawing's like in the photo's. If my memory can remember back that far it took about 1500 hundred pieces of wood to make all of her frames give or take a couple. Guess I should sat down and get a count of how many pieces there really was but after about 500 I stop counting. As you can see in the photo's the new water lines helped on a more accurated framing drawing and joint lay out. One item that you won't see is chock's because most frames was built up not using them. I did in fact build a few frames with them but most do not have them. One might ask, what about strength, which is why one glues frames back to back to help strengthen the joints. My frames came out very strong but when it came to the framing I didn't want to take any chances so any time I sanded on the frames, i add tempory ribbands to support the frames along with shimmens glued between the two frames  which was later removed. Any question just ask away. Gary
 
Just a addition to Montagu frames. Being that I didn't go by Montagu frames sizes on the plan,  I use a 74 gun contract that was written in 1781 to give me the sizes of the frame timbers. When others  in the future  build their own 74. Just remember this is full size measurement.
 
 
Frame. It being of the utmost Consequence to the strength of the ship,that all the timbers of the frame should as much as possible be preserved from being cut by the ports on each deck, a disposition for that purpose is made on the said draught, and as a further means to obtain it, the said timbers appointed to make the sides of the ports being continued up to the top of the side, are to be framed in bends, 1ft, 2d, 3d and 4th futtocks and top timbers together as distinguished on the draught and fastened with three bolts of 1 1/4 inches in each scarph, and that the first futtocks bebe bolted to the respective floors of every bend, with 3 bolts of 1 1/4 inches diameter, that the stations of the said frames so distinguished, are to be preserved with great exactness, and for such of them as stand afore and abrest the square, and are to be canted, these also are to keep their stations, at the breadth, and what is required to give the fashion piece and beakhead timbers a proper flight , or cant, according to the turn of the body, should be done b reducing the room and space on the side of the keel and as by this disposition of the frames in their several stations, they are respectively appointed to make the sides of every gun deck port, and one side of every upper deck ports is at once provided for by them, as one 4th futtock and one top timber proper will make the side of every gun deck port, one top timber proper, and either a 4th futtock continued up, when can be got of a length will make the said side of such upper deck port is to be made by the top timber which come under the port, being formed in a cast over the 4th futtock head, and run , taking care that the said cast be so disposed that it be not cut of as to hurt the timber by the lower cell of the port, or as shall be directed. And as all ships should be kept as light as possible in her upper works, consistent with the service required of them, so the frame should not be incumbered with a timber more than is necessary for the several offices for which they may be wanted, and two short timbers and by no means more sided as the lower end 11 inches, and at the upper deck 9 1/2 inches, stands upon the cell of every gun deck port, properly place to receive an upper deck standard, quarter deck port or such other service necessary to their stations, and there be also 2 short timbers admitted to stand on the cell of every upper deck port sided 10 inches at the lower, and 9 inches at the upper end, which, with such as are nesassary to make the gallery doors from the quarters, make the sides of the quarter deck ports, filling inbetween the formost frame and Hawse pieces, the whole ship's frame will be sufficiently full , every purpose answered, and not the least occasion for more, every frame bend to be separated with pieces of dry oak in wake of the bolts for bolting the frames together, or as shall be directed.
 
Floor timbers. Between 3 and C the were sided 1 foot 4 inches and from 3 to 15 aft and from C to N forward they were sided 1foot 2 1/2 inches, and from there aft and forward 1 foot 1 1/2 inches and in wake of the half timbers o feet 11 inches or as the space of the cant timbers will admit. To be in length 26 feet and afore and abaft as the draught directs. No chocks to be larger on any floor timbers than will admit of 1 foot 4 inches whole wood below the cutting down in the midship, and afore and abaft to increase as the shape of the timber may require for strength, and to be moulded at the heads 1 boot 1 /1/2 inches, and afore and abaft the frame, every other floor timber to be bolted through the main keel and bolts carefully clenched before the false keel is put under, by bolts of 1 1/2 inches in diameter.
 
Lower Futtocks. In the midships from timber N to 12 inclusive to sided 1 foot 2 1/2 inches, from N to the foremost floor forward and from 12 to the aftermost floor aft to be sided 1 foot 1 1/2 inches, and in wake of the half timbers according to the room and space, the cant timbers allow, that the said futtocks run down to the deadwood, and not to have less than 6 inches whole wood there, to have chocks across on the heels of them to supply the wood that my be wanting from thence, to the cutting down on inside of the floor timbers, and that they scarph on the second futtock in midships 7 feet 0 inches, and afore and abaft 5 feet 8 inches, or agreeable to what is offered on the draught, and to be in and out, or moulded at the heads 12 3/4 inches.
 
Second Futtocks. The Second Futtocks to be sided between timber N and 14 inclusive in the said draught, 1 foot 1 1/2 inches, from thence forward and aft 1 foot 1 inches, or in wake of the cant timber , according to what is required from the room and space of them, to have 7 feet 0 inches scarph in the midships to the third futtocks, and afore and abaft as expressed on the draught , and to moulded at the heads 12 1/4 inches, not to have less than 3 1/2 inches whole wood at the heels of double futtocks, and half timbers afore and abaft.
 
Third Futtocks. The third futtocks to be sided 1 foot 1 inches, to give scarph to the fourth futtocks in midship 7 feet 0 inches, and not less than 5 feet 8 inches afore and abaft, that those timbers that come under the gun deck ports run up to the cell, and to me moulded at the run of the third futtock heads 11 5/8 inches and in and out at the gun deck 11 1/2 inches.
 
Fourth Futtock. The Upper or fourth futtocks in the midships to be sided 1 foot 1 inches, to have scarph to the top timbers in midships 11 feet 6 inches and not less than 9 feet 6 inches, afore and abaft, and to be moulded, or in and out at the range of the upper deck waterways 10 1/2 inches, that all those appointed to make the sides of the gun deck and upper deck ports, be well grown young strong timber, free from sap or wain, and as the bigness of the gun deck port is 3 feet 5 inches fore and aft, and the room and space of the frames on each side of them 5feet 5 inches, there must remain full 12 inches timber from the moulding side of each fourth futtock or top timber to the side of the port, after the port is trimmed out to the bigness, and there fore great care is to be observed that such as are appointed to make the sides of ports conform in their sidings accordingly, that when the port is formed to its bigness fore and aft, not the least sap or wain to be found in the timber in wake thereof, and that all such as come in the wake of the main and fore channels, or that make the sides of the gun or upper deck ports run up to the top of the side, or at least and many of them as can be got, and that none of those that make the sides of the gun deck ports be less then 3 feet 0 inches square timber, above the upper cell of the gun deck port.
 
Top Timbers. The top timbers in Midships to run down to the lower edge of the upper strake of the gun deck clamps, to be sided at the heel and at the upper futtock heads 0 feet 13 inches , and at the top of the side 0 feet 10 1/2 inches, except such as are appointed to make the sides of the upper deck ports, which ae to be continued the same bigness as below, or according to the room there is for them, and for those top timbers that are by being frames to make the sides of gun deck ports, the same care to be observed in respect to their bigness sideways, between the mouldings of the frames and the side of the port,, as has been mentioned of the upper futtocks and that those which are to make the sides ofr the upper deck ports, instead of such fourth futtocks as cannot run up to do that office, and requires to have a cast over the fourth futtock heads to clear itself of the side of the port for that purpose, to take care that it be well grown to form the said cast, and the cast disposed of proper to the height of the port, that the timber may not be wounded thereby, and not the least sap or wain be left remaining in the top timber in the wake of the gun deck and upper deck ports, when the ports are trimmed out, and the whole to be well grown young strong timber, and moulded at the top of the side at the run of the ribband at the top timber breadth in midships 5 1/2 inches, abaft 5 5/8 inches, and at the beakhead 6 1/4 inches, and at the fiferail from the second drift to the stern timber to moulded 4 1/2 inches, and from the drift forward in wake of the timber heads 5 1/2 inches, the frame to be disposed of agreeable to a drawing that will accompany the sheer draught.

Thanks Ben. With the hawse timbers in place, now comes time for the fwd cant frames. As I was looking for photo's to redo the log, came across some that I don't even think I put on the old log. It shows the fitting of the cant frame's but using a jig that Longridge did when he was building his Victory, in his book, the Anatomy of Nelson's Ships. You can see his jig on page 40. Mine is just a little bit different but the credit belongs to him.  Also one thing you will notice is that the hawse timbers have been sanded down and are now  smooth on the inside. With the build up of the cant frames, things were faired as more cant frames were added.The jig also helped me get the bevels right on the cant's them self. What  you can't see on the templates is the markes for the aligning up the placement of the frames them self's.

Thanks guys. Here is my story in pictures of how I built up Montagu hawse timbers. If you have any question please ask. To give one some ideal, the were attach to each other and also to the first cant frame and knight head and then as a assembly was taken off of her stem and sanded down to shape, on the outside and inside. Made it a whole lot easier  when it came to sanding the inside, thats for sure. Gary

Your very welcome Ron and thank you Joe. Here are some photo's of her keel, stem, stern post and deadwood along with her apron and building board. A couple of the photo's show the templates that were used to construct the parts and pieces.

As most know, this 74 Montagu is a sister to Alfred and is being built up right and with her framing as it might of been done. Hopfully it won't take to long to get in to her.  Knowing that  Montagu plans, straight from the NMM are distort I drew up new water lines and frames to help me build her. I have added these drawings to this post. I didn't use cad as some of you do but just a good old pencil and one of those drafting machines. 

Hello every one. Here is a small update on my build showing the stages that making a cast knee goes through to become a cast knee for my build. Also a few photos showing the fore mast partner on the  upper gun deck beams.The photo also show's the bolts being installed and is made up of 10 piece's of wood. Hope you enjoy the photo's
 
 

Hi Mark and Mark. Thanks for bearing with me and I finally finshed the dust collection for the lathe and the mill. For the last couple of days I have been fine turning the dust pick up.  The key to making this work is the Loc line tubing that you can buy. I purchased the 3/4 tubing with a couple of loc line fittings, along with some pvc boxes, a few fitting of Pvc as you can see in the photos. The nice thing about the loc line its small, stays in place,  and suck's up the dust right at the source. The only item that has to be moved from the mill to the lathe is the hose from the vacuum which is located under the work bench. Every thing is fixed but the hose and with a switch on top of the work bench back against the wall the vacuum cleaner comes on. Well within reach of the machines. I like being able to turn on the tool and vacuum at the same time but in this case the switch on the work bench works fine and may one day work on the tool turning on the vacuum cleaner. The other nice thing about the vacuum being underneith the work bench I can put in some in some sound material to tone down the sound. Anyway here is some photo's of the set up. I may also in the future change the  moving of the hose to a couple of pieces of Pvc from box to box, with the hose coming up in the middle of a tee. Hope this is of help to those of us that hate dust and cleaning up. 

Hi Mark and thank you for a reply. What I was thinking was more of a permanent like what I have hooked up to the disk sander and thickness sander. Nice about this set up is when I turn them on the vac also comes  on and is stored under the work bench, out of the way. Any way thank you sir. Gary

Hi Hakan and you may sir. I have a 10 inch bandsaw and two small table saw's a Byrnes and a Preac saw and would be lost with out them. The band saw is a Inca that is probably 20 years old give or take 5 year's that I use to rip stock down to a size that can then be used on the mini table saws.  If you look to the left of the main table say you will see the Byrnes and Preac saw and on the right side you can see the green band saw.  Hope that answer your question sir. Gary

Thanks Guys. It has taken me a few years, but would you believe me if I told you the shop is alive. I know, sounds kind of dumb, but it has been changing since 2007 when we moved in. I have a couple of  photo's showing the way it looked when we moved in  compared to how it looks today. Looking at others workshop's and lay out helped me come up with the best lay out. The one thing that has really made the shop a nice place to work is when I added on the  the 16' x 15' foot extenson. Am planning on adding internet and a computer to the back room, so I don't have to run in to the house when ever I need to look for some thing on the internet. Thanks again guys and happy New Year. Gary

Hi Clay. Well good sir my thought process on the framing  was I used butt's to hold the parts of the frame together that is shown on page 18 in Goodwin's book. Being a expert , thank you for that, but call my self more of a student who will never finish school.  When i started building my frames I did use chocks to hold the parts together but being that you make  about  a 130 frames it takes awhile  which is why I used the butt and dowel that hold's those parts together. Not as time consuming and once the planks  are installed on the outside and inside you can't see the chocks but if I had to do it again I would have installed the chocks, but today that is just a bit of hind sight on my part. Installing the chocks does take a while and after three years of framing figure chocks would have added 2 years to their building, for me anyway. Chock's would be more accurate doing our time frame. Now the sister frames  would have been called bends and it seems that He shows this on page 14,16 and 18. What they usually did, as far as I can tell in Alfred's/Warrior time frame,  would be to to build one bend( two frames put together as one) two single filling frames that did not touch each other and then another bend. Some where around the dead flat there was a changing of the floors so at that place you would have a floor, a first futtock and then another floor.  What they did is at the forward part of the hull the floors would be on forward side and aft the would be on the aft side. I added  a photo of Alfred's framing plan and my framing ,  they are about as close as I can get them. If you look at station 1 and the dead flat you will see the switching of the floor. How you can tell is that there is three filling frames between the two bend's and usually you only had two filler's.  Now the bend's didn't touch as the went up but was pushed apart with blocks of wood , so the upper parts of the frame's could make up the side of the gun port. Those parts of the frame were bolted together were the blocks were installed . I colored those blocks black and shows that this was a station and the filling frames did not have those blocks. Hope this makes sense Clay. Gary

To bruce d: Yes, I did - see the picture on the page nr. 10.
The last items on the quaterdeck - the stationary blocks and fixation of the tiller.

Thank you guys for all the likes and nice comments.
I continue with the installation of swivel guns.

The biggest lesson that this forum has taught me is that each of us, regardless of level, is working hard at every detail. Even if we don’t see it in the end, taking things seriously is something we have to stick with. So I slowed down the shooting and tried to make the details as perfect as possible. Thank you for your support and attention to my friends!
 

 
 
 

 
 
 

 
 
 

 
 
 

Beautifully done!