portchieboy

Still listening, taking everything in thanks. I have contacted Stewart, the owner and we are actively talking about the plans. Interesting comment the last one Rob, wasn't aware of the difference. Many thanks for the research. 

Still listening, taking everything in thanks. I have contacted Stewart, the owner and we are actively talking about the plans. Interesting comment the last one Rob, wasn't aware of the difference. Many thanks for the research. 

Thanks Rob, very illuminating.
 
Stewart, the ships owner is not certain about the provenance.It was his Great (I think) Grandfather who built the model, and S in unsure whether it was fictional or otherwise. He has tried Lloyds Register who can find nothing, but I think he would like it to be a 'real' ship. He does admit to an earlier intent to restore the model, hence its' deconstruction, but this was never continued. At that time he drew the model prior to its demise, but sadly those drawings have long since dissappeared.
 
I admit I am a total newbie to this kind of project, and not being a sailing man have to look up all these terms. So as to Howes rigging, I gather this is where the lower sail is in a fixed position and others can come down over it. Would this only apply to the 3 lower sails? Also, how can you tell this from the photos?
 
I must admit from my limited research, the only clippers that I could find with 7 yards werejust an occaisional mainmast on an older vessel, or maybe all 3 on these new cruise clippers. I am afraid again that the names of the sails....Moonsail etc maen nothing to me. When it comes to the rigging, I guess so long as I know how the yards were held, and then the sails set, then I can rig accordingly. 
 
Thanks for your time, and as you will see when I have the ship cleaned up and stabilised I will be leaning very heavily on you!!!!!
 
Mike
 
 

Interesting.
Restoration is more important then correction in this instance.  Even if Grandpa built his model inaccurately..it should be *restored* as it was originally created...to retain the actual patina of the model.   I would venture to suggest that if the main shrouds and ratlines are intact and without great damage...I would not replace them...but merely clean them.  These are original to the model...thus original material and they reflect work actually done by Great-grandpa.   It represent more folk art then an actual scale model of an actual ship.  IMO.
 
Rob

Mike....typically with Howes rig the main sail yard is fixed to the lower mast via a metal truss.  The Howes rig comes into play with the top sails.  Early clippers only had a single top sail, that could be raised and lowered the full length of the top mast.  The Howes design(actually designed by Forbes) affixed a second topsail to the lower mast cap...via a crane and iron support(the lower topsail)...permitting the upper topsail to easily be lowered down and *Over* the lower....quickly reducing sail area.  This double yard(Howes), system was also employed in the topgallant yards in similar fashion in later clippers and larger sea going carriers.  The Forbes design(Later to be adopted and improved by the Howes design)...quickly permitted the sailors to reduce sail by lowering the top yard/sail onto and over the lower sail/yard.  Quickly reducing sail area, in essence hiding it in the air shadow of the lower sail..  This method was far easier to manage then the earlier very large single topsails of earlier models.  Especially during dangerous high wind events.
 
Rob

I failed to answer this specific question in my earlier post.
 
I can't tell from the pictures of the model if she had 6 or 7 yards per mast.  That is devised from what you said the model had when you acquired her.
My conclusions are based upon the fact the model had 7 yards per mast and from what I know about the typical arrangement on clippers.
From what I recollect there have never been a clipper with 7 yards on all three masts.  As mentioned earlier...I will do further research but I think there was one that might have had a seventh yard on her main mast only.
 
Typical clipper designs had 5~6 yards per mast.  Some, 5 on all masts...some with 6 on all masts, and still others with 5 on the foremast 6 on the main and 5 on the mizzen mast.  Generally a combination of these designs could be found.   Even on some of the largest sea going cargo carriers...the big 4 and 5 masted German vessels...only carried 6 yards per mast.
 
Rob

Thanks folk. 
 
Keith....Yes indeed, some work to do! I am thinking that the wires are in such a state that I am tempted to leave the standing rigging, but lose all the elements of running rigging. Also leave the ratlines. I can then get to the masts and deck better to clean them. The masts need taking apart anyway, as there are several breaks. I can ultimately re rig using ropes instead, and proper blocks etc. I intend to get hold of a copy of Cutty Sark's rigging plans to get the gist of rigging a Clipper.
 
Roger.....Yes, the furled sails are carved wood. I am sure I can make a better job of the painting. There are also a number of loose pieces of the same carvings as shown on the photo's. Not sure yet where those go!
 
Out of interest I notice that the 'yoke' on the yards is in some cases on the aft of the yard, and some are on top? That is a little confusing I have to admit.

I have the honour to have been asked to restore an old, and very tired model thought to date from the late 19th Century. Nothing is known about the ship, bar it's name, so I can only work with what I have been given. You will see that it is 3 masted, and there are 21 yards. The rigging that is left on the ship is wire, and some has been snipped off rather than undone.
 
I will follow advice given me so far and thoroughly record and clean the model first. I also will be measuring and recording the rigging to try to work out where it went, and what more is required. I have some experience of building, though minimal compared to many on this forum. I will therefore be very interested and grateful for any advice along the way.
 
Thanks Stewart for your faith in me, I will do my best.
 
Builds to date
 
Panart Royal Caroline 1/47 Completed 2011
Jotika HMS Vistory 1/72 Started 2008, still to finish ships boats

Thanks Rob, very illuminating.
 
Stewart, the ships owner is not certain about the provenance.It was his Great (I think) Grandfather who built the model, and S in unsure whether it was fictional or otherwise. He has tried Lloyds Register who can find nothing, but I think he would like it to be a 'real' ship. He does admit to an earlier intent to restore the model, hence its' deconstruction, but this was never continued. At that time he drew the model prior to its demise, but sadly those drawings have long since dissappeared.
 
I admit I am a total newbie to this kind of project, and not being a sailing man have to look up all these terms. So as to Howes rigging, I gather this is where the lower sail is in a fixed position and others can come down over it. Would this only apply to the 3 lower sails? Also, how can you tell this from the photos?
 
I must admit from my limited research, the only clippers that I could find with 7 yards werejust an occaisional mainmast on an older vessel, or maybe all 3 on these new cruise clippers. I am afraid again that the names of the sails....Moonsail etc maen nothing to me. When it comes to the rigging, I guess so long as I know how the yards were held, and then the sails set, then I can rig accordingly. 
 
Thanks for your time, and as you will see when I have the ship cleaned up and stabilised I will be leaning very heavily on you!!!!!
 
Mike
 
 

7 yards per mast....mmmmm.  Do you have an original photo of her before you began the restoration?
 
Being Howes rigged, She either had a single main, upper and lower topsails, upper and lower topgallants a royal and a skysail....or..
Her main, double topsails a single topgallant, a royal, a sky sail and a moon sail.
 
Do you know....Is this model  suppose to replicate an actual vessel or is she fictitious?(I know you probably already answered this)  *Fairland*...interesting.
She was most likely British...she appears to be of that pedigree.
No American clipper was rigged with 7 yards per mast.  Still trying to figure out what British vessels did, if any.  I do think I recall, a ship having 7 yards on her main....but I'm not sure of her origins....I'll do some research.
 
Rob

Thanks folk. 
 
Keith....Yes indeed, some work to do! I am thinking that the wires are in such a state that I am tempted to leave the standing rigging, but lose all the elements of running rigging. Also leave the ratlines. I can then get to the masts and deck better to clean them. The masts need taking apart anyway, as there are several breaks. I can ultimately re rig using ropes instead, and proper blocks etc. I intend to get hold of a copy of Cutty Sark's rigging plans to get the gist of rigging a Clipper.
 
Roger.....Yes, the furled sails are carved wood. I am sure I can make a better job of the painting. There are also a number of loose pieces of the same carvings as shown on the photo's. Not sure yet where those go!
 
Out of interest I notice that the 'yoke' on the yards is in some cases on the aft of the yard, and some are on top? That is a little confusing I have to admit.

I have the honour to have been asked to restore an old, and very tired model thought to date from the late 19th Century. Nothing is known about the ship, bar it's name, so I can only work with what I have been given. You will see that it is 3 masted, and there are 21 yards. The rigging that is left on the ship is wire, and some has been snipped off rather than undone.
 
I will follow advice given me so far and thoroughly record and clean the model first. I also will be measuring and recording the rigging to try to work out where it went, and what more is required. I have some experience of building, though minimal compared to many on this forum. I will therefore be very interested and grateful for any advice along the way.
 
Thanks Stewart for your faith in me, I will do my best.
 
Builds to date
 
Panart Royal Caroline 1/47 Completed 2011
Jotika HMS Vistory 1/72 Started 2008, still to finish ships boats

I have the honour to have been asked to restore an old, and very tired model thought to date from the late 19th Century. Nothing is known about the ship, bar it's name, so I can only work with what I have been given. You will see that it is 3 masted, and there are 21 yards. The rigging that is left on the ship is wire, and some has been snipped off rather than undone.
 
I will follow advice given me so far and thoroughly record and clean the model first. I also will be measuring and recording the rigging to try to work out where it went, and what more is required. I have some experience of building, though minimal compared to many on this forum. I will therefore be very interested and grateful for any advice along the way.
 
Thanks Stewart for your faith in me, I will do my best.
 
Builds to date
 
Panart Royal Caroline 1/47 Completed 2011
Jotika HMS Vistory 1/72 Started 2008, still to finish ships boats

Were it I, I'd remove the standing rigging as well and start with fresh rigging including ratlines. You'll be able to remove the mast and repair them properly and it'll give you access to the entire deck to clean, make repairs, and add those elements that are missing. With seven yards per mast you're going to want to be able to work off model rigging all those yards. On one hand replacing all the rigging is a large task but in the long run it's going to make restoration much easier, IMHO. 

Thanks folk. 
 
Keith....Yes indeed, some work to do! I am thinking that the wires are in such a state that I am tempted to leave the standing rigging, but lose all the elements of running rigging. Also leave the ratlines. I can then get to the masts and deck better to clean them. The masts need taking apart anyway, as there are several breaks. I can ultimately re rig using ropes instead, and proper blocks etc. I intend to get hold of a copy of Cutty Sark's rigging plans to get the gist of rigging a Clipper.
 
Roger.....Yes, the furled sails are carved wood. I am sure I can make a better job of the painting. There are also a number of loose pieces of the same carvings as shown on the photo's. Not sure yet where those go!
 
Out of interest I notice that the 'yoke' on the yards is in some cases on the aft of the yard, and some are on top? That is a little confusing I have to admit.

I have the honour to have been asked to restore an old, and very tired model thought to date from the late 19th Century. Nothing is known about the ship, bar it's name, so I can only work with what I have been given. You will see that it is 3 masted, and there are 21 yards. The rigging that is left on the ship is wire, and some has been snipped off rather than undone.
 
I will follow advice given me so far and thoroughly record and clean the model first. I also will be measuring and recording the rigging to try to work out where it went, and what more is required. I have some experience of building, though minimal compared to many on this forum. I will therefore be very interested and grateful for any advice along the way.
 
Thanks Stewart for your faith in me, I will do my best.
 
Builds to date
 
Panart Royal Caroline 1/47 Completed 2011
Jotika HMS Vistory 1/72 Started 2008, still to finish ships boats

Have a look at this guys work  - he is in the UK also and very reasonable and excellent work.
 
OC.
 
 
https://acorndisplays.co.uk/

Couple of problems. Firstly, we simply do not have the space to walk round it! Houses in UK are not that big. TBH, it would cost as much as the original kit to get a suitable case. I can still foresee sealing thespace, and having LED lights around the perimeter. Be interested in seeing any other 'built in' cases? Thanks all for responding, keep 'em coming!

So, I am within 6 months of completing the Jotika Victory...after 12 enjoyable years! Having now to think of display. We don't live in a mansion, just a 3 bed semi, and I was wondering what others have done? The length will be some 1700mm or so. I am thinking about building a shelf unit in an alcove, then putting the model on 2nd or 3rd shelf up. I would then screw an acrylic panel over the front to seal the dust out. We can then use the remainder of the shelving for other purposes. Does that sound possible?
 
Then I have to wonder what to do next....what comes after the best!

Couple of problems. Firstly, we simply do not have the space to walk round it! Houses in UK are not that big. TBH, it would cost as much as the original kit to get a suitable case. I can still foresee sealing thespace, and having LED lights around the perimeter. Be interested in seeing any other 'built in' cases? Thanks all for responding, keep 'em coming!