hamilton

Lots of good advice here - I'll chime in with an extension on Frank's advice above - this is not a cheap hobby and tools are as important as kits - given what you say about yourself above, I imagine you've got some decent tools - but modelling tools can get quite specialised on the tool front - your full sized table saw is a little too much for the kinds of jobs a miniature table saw gets put to in ship modelling, for example, and it's doubtful that you'll need to invest in a micro-lathe to turn your own canons or rail stanchions until you get right into the weeds of the craft. I built my first kit with little more than a dremel tool, some #10 and #11 exacto blades, a set of small stainless steel tweezers, a pin vice with a set of micro drill bits, a little saw and a ball peen hammer - all purchased on the cheap to begin with and then replaced with better quality stuff as I discovered that this is something I like doing and want to keep doing and learning about. With some of the beginner kits from Model Shipways (which I would recommend as first attempt) that's all you need and since the beginner kits are usually quite affordable you're not breaking the bank just to see if you're into the hobby or not. 
 
It's tempting to go for a fully rigged ship of the line or a big 19th century clipper, since they look so cool, especially in the hands of some the pros on here. But they will very rapidly overwhelm if you don't first develop a general feel for the craft and work your way up - starting small and joining this forum are two decisions you won't regret!
hamilton

I am going to give a different perspective on the cost.  I have two hobbies.  Golf and model ships.  I spend $60 on a four hour round of golf ($15 per hour) and I spend $300 - $400 for a ship kit that I spend 500 - 1000 hours building (yes I am not very fast).  Add $200 for some basic tools and that works out to less than $1 an hour.  You certainly don't need power tools to build a kit.  I have spent some money on some tool upgrades, but those are nice to have and not need to have items.  The money an individual spends on tools can vary greatly, but there is no reason you can't get the basics for a couple hundred dollars.  The only power tool I don't think I could get by without is a power drill that I use when tapering a dowel for a mast or yard.  

I've now constructed the first two frames - deadflat and deadflat 1. There is still a fair amount of cleaning up and refining to do, but for now I'm pretty happy with the results. The joints on deadflat 1 between the futtocks was pretty weak and I had to redo the chock to try to refine them, which was successful enough for the moment, but I really need to get a decent technique down for these joints so they are more secure....apart from "practice makes perfect" are there other things I should be doing to ensure better joints at the chocks?
 
In any case, there is still work to be done on both frames - I need to refine their profiles along the molded dimension, thin them on the molded dimension towards the toptimbers, file out notches for the sweep port sills and lintels on the aft face of deadflat 1 and add trunnels at the joints. Given the need to align the notches for the sweep ports, I will wait to raise deadflat 1 until frame 1-forward is complete, so I can mark these features out at the same time on both.
 
I also fixed the issue with the keel assembly noted above - I sliced off a short length of 1/16" boxwood from a thicker strip, fixed this to the end of the keel assembly and then shaped it with sanding blocks and files. Unfortunately I only have shots of the un-shaped extension attached to the assembly and not the finished piece - I'll see if I can show it more clearly in a future post.
 
In the meantime, here are some photos. Enjoy and bye for now
hamilton
 

Continuing with the framing - I've now assembled, but not fully completed, the deadflat frame - it remains still to clean up the edges a little, trim down the portion of the chock that steps down from the first futtock to the toptimber, and add trunnels at the futtock joints. I will say that, though my joinery work leaves a lot to be desired (and indicates the need for more practice), I'm pretty pleased with the results. Of course, it's just one frame, so I have to be a bit reserved and wait to see how things shape up as keep going. 
 
I started working on the deadflat 1 frame today - making templates, cutting the components out on the scroll saw and doing some initial clean up of the parts. Once the glue has fully cured on the deadflat frame, I'll return to finish it up.
 
Quick question for anyone who might know - is it best to wait to start raising the frames until all are constructed? I can't think of any advantage or disadvantage in raising them one at a time or all at once, but I wanted to ask just in case I might be missing something.....
hamilton
 
 

Thanks Greg for this clear explanation - your approach to the chocks makes a lot of sense - I have been using the drawings to make these to this point, so I'll try your technique. I've already got the mechanical 2mm lead holder and hard leads but maybe a new disc sander is in my future....Thanks again - this is very helpful!
hamilton

I've now constructed the first two frames - deadflat and deadflat 1. There is still a fair amount of cleaning up and refining to do, but for now I'm pretty happy with the results. The joints on deadflat 1 between the futtocks was pretty weak and I had to redo the chock to try to refine them, which was successful enough for the moment, but I really need to get a decent technique down for these joints so they are more secure....apart from "practice makes perfect" are there other things I should be doing to ensure better joints at the chocks?
 
In any case, there is still work to be done on both frames - I need to refine their profiles along the molded dimension, thin them on the molded dimension towards the toptimbers, file out notches for the sweep port sills and lintels on the aft face of deadflat 1 and add trunnels at the joints. Given the need to align the notches for the sweep ports, I will wait to raise deadflat 1 until frame 1-forward is complete, so I can mark these features out at the same time on both.
 
I also fixed the issue with the keel assembly noted above - I sliced off a short length of 1/16" boxwood from a thicker strip, fixed this to the end of the keel assembly and then shaped it with sanding blocks and files. Unfortunately I only have shots of the un-shaped extension attached to the assembly and not the finished piece - I'll see if I can show it more clearly in a future post.
 
In the meantime, here are some photos. Enjoy and bye for now
hamilton
 

Thanks OC
 
Christian - I'm not sure...but I suppose I'll find out...and I'll try to be conscious of this as I go....thanks!
hamilton

Thanks Greg for this clear explanation - your approach to the chocks makes a lot of sense - I have been using the drawings to make these to this point, so I'll try your technique. I've already got the mechanical 2mm lead holder and hard leads but maybe a new disc sander is in my future....Thanks again - this is very helpful!
hamilton

I've now constructed the first two frames - deadflat and deadflat 1. There is still a fair amount of cleaning up and refining to do, but for now I'm pretty happy with the results. The joints on deadflat 1 between the futtocks was pretty weak and I had to redo the chock to try to refine them, which was successful enough for the moment, but I really need to get a decent technique down for these joints so they are more secure....apart from "practice makes perfect" are there other things I should be doing to ensure better joints at the chocks?
 
In any case, there is still work to be done on both frames - I need to refine their profiles along the molded dimension, thin them on the molded dimension towards the toptimbers, file out notches for the sweep port sills and lintels on the aft face of deadflat 1 and add trunnels at the joints. Given the need to align the notches for the sweep ports, I will wait to raise deadflat 1 until frame 1-forward is complete, so I can mark these features out at the same time on both.
 
I also fixed the issue with the keel assembly noted above - I sliced off a short length of 1/16" boxwood from a thicker strip, fixed this to the end of the keel assembly and then shaped it with sanding blocks and files. Unfortunately I only have shots of the un-shaped extension attached to the assembly and not the finished piece - I'll see if I can show it more clearly in a future post.
 
In the meantime, here are some photos. Enjoy and bye for now
hamilton
 

I live in Vancouver, so the humidity would argue for the wood expanding....if I were in Scottsdale, maybe it would get all the moisture sucked out of it....this leaves only one possibility - modeller error!!
 
I think I will take a minute or two and just add a 1/16" piece to the front and shape it to suit - not sure I'll be able to blend it very well but as you say Greg it's in a relatively unobtrusive spot.....framing is far more fun than I thought it would be!! But I've got to get my joinery down......
hamilton

I'm just noticing something for the first time and kicking myself I didn't notice it before, since it is so obvious! You can see in the photos just posted that the keel assembly is short on the plan drawing - by maybe about 1/16"!! Half of me is tempted to simply attach a 1/16" thick strip of boxwood to this end and shape it to fit - though this will not look as good as it would if I just re-did the whole assembly......arghhh!!
hamilton

Continuing with the framing - I've now assembled, but not fully completed, the deadflat frame - it remains still to clean up the edges a little, trim down the portion of the chock that steps down from the first futtock to the toptimber, and add trunnels at the futtock joints. I will say that, though my joinery work leaves a lot to be desired (and indicates the need for more practice), I'm pretty pleased with the results. Of course, it's just one frame, so I have to be a bit reserved and wait to see how things shape up as keep going. 
 
I started working on the deadflat 1 frame today - making templates, cutting the components out on the scroll saw and doing some initial clean up of the parts. Once the glue has fully cured on the deadflat frame, I'll return to finish it up.
 
Quick question for anyone who might know - is it best to wait to start raising the frames until all are constructed? I can't think of any advantage or disadvantage in raising them one at a time or all at once, but I wanted to ask just in case I might be missing something.....
hamilton
 
 

Thanks for the tip Christian! This process is not intuitive for me, and I appreciate the guidance!
hamilton

Minor update on the deadflat frame. The chocks and cross chock are now cut out and I think my approach to doing this (at least provisionally) works ok. As noted above, I made a few billets of boxwood for the cross chocks and the chocks, since I felt that it would be very hard for me to make these if I was just trying to cut them out of the larger sheets along with the futtocks.
 
I position the template of the chock/cross chock at the end of the appropriate billets - in this case, they were all cut from 10" stock - with the angled side at 1 edge. I then use the disc sander to shave the angled portions down - not quite fully, so I can finish them off more carefully by hand with a sanding block. I then cut along the straight edge on the scroll saw to release them from the billet - I was worried that this would be really hard to achieve since the pieces are so small, but it actually proved not too difficult. Some light final finishing with sanding block and files and presto! I now only need to refine the futtocks and then get into the joinery....the kind of finnicky work that normally defeats my lazy and distracted nature, but that I'm determined to really get right! The final shot, below, shows the chocks loosely put together with the futtocks, and it shows I've got some ways still to go before I can finalise the assembly and raise the frame....but I'm enjoying this far more than I feared I might! Hopefully that feeling lasts!!
hamilton

A bit more progress on Echo. I took some time over the weekend and studied the framing tables supplied by Admiralty for the cross-section, sorted through wood, made copies of the frame patterns and started work on the deadflat frame. I also made the framing square jig, the pattern for which is also included with the other documentation for this build - it is suggested to use heavy card for this, but having an ample supply of 1/16" basswood strip, I decided to use that. 
 
For the deadflat frame, I first cut out templates of the individual frame elements, but realised that cutting and refining the chocks and cross chocks might be done more precisely and efficiently if I made billets for this purpose. The chocks and crosschocks are made from different thicknesses of boxwood depending on their location - 10.5", 10" and 8.25". The cross chocks for the forward frames are all 10". So I made 4 billets - 1 10.5" x 5/8" x 3 1/4", 1 10" x 5/8" x 3 1/4", 1 8.25" x 5/8" x 2 1/4" and for the cross chocks 10" x 1 3/4" x 2 1/2". I cut these billets over long for the number of chocks required so I could use the excess as a handle to refine the angled portions of the chocks on my disc sander. The straight edge will be cut using a chisel and refined by hand.
 
I have yet to refine the futtocks so the images below show them as I rough cut them on the bandsaw.
 
Enjoy and bye for now!
hamilton
 

I've now constructed the first two frames - deadflat and deadflat 1. There is still a fair amount of cleaning up and refining to do, but for now I'm pretty happy with the results. The joints on deadflat 1 between the futtocks was pretty weak and I had to redo the chock to try to refine them, which was successful enough for the moment, but I really need to get a decent technique down for these joints so they are more secure....apart from "practice makes perfect" are there other things I should be doing to ensure better joints at the chocks?
 
In any case, there is still work to be done on both frames - I need to refine their profiles along the molded dimension, thin them on the molded dimension towards the toptimbers, file out notches for the sweep port sills and lintels on the aft face of deadflat 1 and add trunnels at the joints. Given the need to align the notches for the sweep ports, I will wait to raise deadflat 1 until frame 1-forward is complete, so I can mark these features out at the same time on both.
 
I also fixed the issue with the keel assembly noted above - I sliced off a short length of 1/16" boxwood from a thicker strip, fixed this to the end of the keel assembly and then shaped it with sanding blocks and files. Unfortunately I only have shots of the un-shaped extension attached to the assembly and not the finished piece - I'll see if I can show it more clearly in a future post.
 
In the meantime, here are some photos. Enjoy and bye for now
hamilton
 

Continuing with the framing - I've now assembled, but not fully completed, the deadflat frame - it remains still to clean up the edges a little, trim down the portion of the chock that steps down from the first futtock to the toptimber, and add trunnels at the futtock joints. I will say that, though my joinery work leaves a lot to be desired (and indicates the need for more practice), I'm pretty pleased with the results. Of course, it's just one frame, so I have to be a bit reserved and wait to see how things shape up as keep going. 
 
I started working on the deadflat 1 frame today - making templates, cutting the components out on the scroll saw and doing some initial clean up of the parts. Once the glue has fully cured on the deadflat frame, I'll return to finish it up.
 
Quick question for anyone who might know - is it best to wait to start raising the frames until all are constructed? I can't think of any advantage or disadvantage in raising them one at a time or all at once, but I wanted to ask just in case I might be missing something.....
hamilton
 
 

Your  doing some  great work  my friend  -  its  not  easy  trying  to achieve  scale  accuracy   and   convert that  into  a  working build.
 
OC.

I've now constructed the first two frames - deadflat and deadflat 1. There is still a fair amount of cleaning up and refining to do, but for now I'm pretty happy with the results. The joints on deadflat 1 between the futtocks was pretty weak and I had to redo the chock to try to refine them, which was successful enough for the moment, but I really need to get a decent technique down for these joints so they are more secure....apart from "practice makes perfect" are there other things I should be doing to ensure better joints at the chocks?
 
In any case, there is still work to be done on both frames - I need to refine their profiles along the molded dimension, thin them on the molded dimension towards the toptimbers, file out notches for the sweep port sills and lintels on the aft face of deadflat 1 and add trunnels at the joints. Given the need to align the notches for the sweep ports, I will wait to raise deadflat 1 until frame 1-forward is complete, so I can mark these features out at the same time on both.
 
I also fixed the issue with the keel assembly noted above - I sliced off a short length of 1/16" boxwood from a thicker strip, fixed this to the end of the keel assembly and then shaped it with sanding blocks and files. Unfortunately I only have shots of the un-shaped extension attached to the assembly and not the finished piece - I'll see if I can show it more clearly in a future post.
 
In the meantime, here are some photos. Enjoy and bye for now
hamilton
 

I've now constructed the first two frames - deadflat and deadflat 1. There is still a fair amount of cleaning up and refining to do, but for now I'm pretty happy with the results. The joints on deadflat 1 between the futtocks was pretty weak and I had to redo the chock to try to refine them, which was successful enough for the moment, but I really need to get a decent technique down for these joints so they are more secure....apart from "practice makes perfect" are there other things I should be doing to ensure better joints at the chocks?
 
In any case, there is still work to be done on both frames - I need to refine their profiles along the molded dimension, thin them on the molded dimension towards the toptimbers, file out notches for the sweep port sills and lintels on the aft face of deadflat 1 and add trunnels at the joints. Given the need to align the notches for the sweep ports, I will wait to raise deadflat 1 until frame 1-forward is complete, so I can mark these features out at the same time on both.
 
I also fixed the issue with the keel assembly noted above - I sliced off a short length of 1/16" boxwood from a thicker strip, fixed this to the end of the keel assembly and then shaped it with sanding blocks and files. Unfortunately I only have shots of the un-shaped extension attached to the assembly and not the finished piece - I'll see if I can show it more clearly in a future post.
 
In the meantime, here are some photos. Enjoy and bye for now
hamilton
 

Thanks Greg for this clear explanation - your approach to the chocks makes a lot of sense - I have been using the drawings to make these to this point, so I'll try your technique. I've already got the mechanical 2mm lead holder and hard leads but maybe a new disc sander is in my future....Thanks again - this is very helpful!
hamilton

I've now constructed the first two frames - deadflat and deadflat 1. There is still a fair amount of cleaning up and refining to do, but for now I'm pretty happy with the results. The joints on deadflat 1 between the futtocks was pretty weak and I had to redo the chock to try to refine them, which was successful enough for the moment, but I really need to get a decent technique down for these joints so they are more secure....apart from "practice makes perfect" are there other things I should be doing to ensure better joints at the chocks?
 
In any case, there is still work to be done on both frames - I need to refine their profiles along the molded dimension, thin them on the molded dimension towards the toptimbers, file out notches for the sweep port sills and lintels on the aft face of deadflat 1 and add trunnels at the joints. Given the need to align the notches for the sweep ports, I will wait to raise deadflat 1 until frame 1-forward is complete, so I can mark these features out at the same time on both.
 
I also fixed the issue with the keel assembly noted above - I sliced off a short length of 1/16" boxwood from a thicker strip, fixed this to the end of the keel assembly and then shaped it with sanding blocks and files. Unfortunately I only have shots of the un-shaped extension attached to the assembly and not the finished piece - I'll see if I can show it more clearly in a future post.
 
In the meantime, here are some photos. Enjoy and bye for now
hamilton
 

I live in Vancouver, so the humidity would argue for the wood expanding....if I were in Scottsdale, maybe it would get all the moisture sucked out of it....this leaves only one possibility - modeller error!!
 
I think I will take a minute or two and just add a 1/16" piece to the front and shape it to suit - not sure I'll be able to blend it very well but as you say Greg it's in a relatively unobtrusive spot.....framing is far more fun than I thought it would be!! But I've got to get my joinery down......
hamilton

I've now constructed the first two frames - deadflat and deadflat 1. There is still a fair amount of cleaning up and refining to do, but for now I'm pretty happy with the results. The joints on deadflat 1 between the futtocks was pretty weak and I had to redo the chock to try to refine them, which was successful enough for the moment, but I really need to get a decent technique down for these joints so they are more secure....apart from "practice makes perfect" are there other things I should be doing to ensure better joints at the chocks?
 
In any case, there is still work to be done on both frames - I need to refine their profiles along the molded dimension, thin them on the molded dimension towards the toptimbers, file out notches for the sweep port sills and lintels on the aft face of deadflat 1 and add trunnels at the joints. Given the need to align the notches for the sweep ports, I will wait to raise deadflat 1 until frame 1-forward is complete, so I can mark these features out at the same time on both.
 
I also fixed the issue with the keel assembly noted above - I sliced off a short length of 1/16" boxwood from a thicker strip, fixed this to the end of the keel assembly and then shaped it with sanding blocks and files. Unfortunately I only have shots of the un-shaped extension attached to the assembly and not the finished piece - I'll see if I can show it more clearly in a future post.
 
In the meantime, here are some photos. Enjoy and bye for now
hamilton
 

I live in Vancouver, so the humidity would argue for the wood expanding....if I were in Scottsdale, maybe it would get all the moisture sucked out of it....this leaves only one possibility - modeller error!!
 
I think I will take a minute or two and just add a 1/16" piece to the front and shape it to suit - not sure I'll be able to blend it very well but as you say Greg it's in a relatively unobtrusive spot.....framing is far more fun than I thought it would be!! But I've got to get my joinery down......
hamilton