Don9of11

Modeling the bow was a lot more trouble for me than it should have been.... but it is done.
The hawse pieces will require filler pieces between them for the hawse holes (not shown).
 
I will now make the templates from H-AFT to forward of the Stem Head Frames.
 
 
Edit note:
The photos have been updated with the hawse pieces remodelled as discussed below.
 

Thanks Alan, now if MSW would just get their notifications fixed.

Really nice work Alan. Your framing looks nice and smooth with no bumps.
 
 
That's cool! That would save a lot of time.
I'm still reading thru your post to learn how you faired your hull. Have you done a comparison of your centers of floor sweeps, upper and lower breadth sweeps to the Bellerophon's? How closely do they match the original draft. That might be beyond the scope of your work here but I was just curious. What do the zebra line look like now (haha)?
 
 
---edited----
 
SW will let you project 2D curves from different planes to make  one 3D curve. Tested it today. 

Good afternoon Don,
 
Earlier fairing was very time consuming minor adjustments of points to smooth out the lines which probably didn't really matter much (okay, I'll take the 100 lashes with the wet noodle now) due to the reduced scale but now having used the projected geometry everything is dead nuts on (that is an actual technical term guys and gals) based on the scale projections and any minor blemishes are really very minor and un-noticeable.
 
I'm betting sanding will do more damage than 3D modelling.
 
The upper third of the framing/hull was/is a bit more of a challenge as it is only depicted in the one view.... no projecting possible.
 
Ah, those darn zebra stripes!
Now that brings back awful memories.
They look purty darn good now.
 
I am just finishing the attachment of the "pointy end" and will work on the aft half next week.
I was missing the two forward gun ports in the last image posted.
They have been added which forced me to adjust a couple frames.
 
Alan

here is a sample of the beginning of my frame templates!
 
screen captures are a little grainy
when I finish the first set I'll post the PDF

Don
 
Inventor allows you to project 3D geometry from two 2D views.  I didn't see this option in my version of SolidWorks I was borrowing from the office.
 
I was able to project the 3D curvature of the waterline cutting down line, top of the floor timber and top timber lines by drawing them in the Breadth and Sheer views (plans).
I then created a end view (Body plan) plane on the station lines and at the locations in which the top timber line changes elevation.
I inserted points at the intersection of these lines with the plane, projected these points onto a sketch at the station line (at the plane) and then drew in the frame.
 
I did however come to the conclusion that I needed to simplify the dimensions. (something I believe Druxey was trying to make me aware of)
The end of the timber at the top of the rail is 5-1/2" moulded depth (athwartships).
at 1:64 this is 0.086" thick or just over 1/16" (about 2mm)
I don't think I can make these at this thickness so I increased it to 8" (1/8" or 3mm)
Still a challenge but a wee bit better to manage.
I also massaged the thickness at the breadth of the beam from 11.8" to 12"
 
I gave up on tweaking all the polylines with setting the 3 handles at every point once I realized there is a traditional autocad polyline option.
The task is difficult enough without creating extra challenges.
 
The first, second and third futtock moulded thickness are unchanged... but I believe they will be when I have wood to sand!
I'm an old draughtsman (draughtsperson to be politically correct) and it is taking me awhile to adjust and accept what I can and cannot do at 1:64 scale.
.... and I am still learning.
 
I am now learning to adjust my thinking of the timber spacing due to the gun port locations. (something else Druxey gentle nudged at)
When I project the cuts from below they are straight and play havoc with the templates at the gun ports.
I realise the timbers shift.
This means cutting from the side (sheer plan) which is tons more work to draw
I am not sure the effort is needed so long as I refer to the actual timber plan I have to do the shifts.
 
I've modelled stations 2 through G and started the template drawing for these today.
I had planed on cutting all the scarf joints in the timbers but now realising the scale, moulded thickness, my level of talent, who will see it... I'm moving towards simple butt end joints.  I may attempt scarf joints where I have break away views through the hull into the interior as you will see these joints.
I've also toyed with the idea of plexiglas timbers in these areas.
 
Alan

here is my work to date on the "pointy end" less the point!


 
 
.... and assembled to the first part done.
 

I was on a drafting table for about 6 years as a die designer in the forging industry then switched over to a 2D program called ANVIL 1000; it's still around but a little pricy. Then we migrated to SolidWorks which I prefer to use. Each one of these programs has a learning curve but it is easier to grasp the fundamentals and get up to a production level if you have previous drawing board experience. (IMHO)
 
I found the best way to learn SketchUp was to start modeling some of my old high school vocational projects . Simple geometric shapes at first then gradually working into something more advanced. Even if you're just going to trace over an existing design, it still helps to have a good knowledge of the basic tools and what you can do with them under your belt.
 
If you start out with "lofty" ideas (no pun intended), your CAD program could end up in the closet along with your model ship. Like anything else it takes practice, practice, practice.
 
Some examples of SketchUp work I have done in addition to what I have posted already.
 
 

 
-----added----
 
If you're looking for a good SketchUp learning source I found the tutorials at the Chiefwoodworkers Blog to be excellent http://www.srww.com/blog/

Oh my word, what have I done!
 
There was a knock at the door at 7pm this evening and a young lady gave me a large box. In it were several other boxes, the main one being my first ever wood ship kit by Caldercraft, called "Convulsion".
 
Unfortunately Cornwall Model Boats were out of stock of the needle files I'd ordered so these were not present so I'll have to get some elsewhere. However, it would appear I now have to get cracking with making a work board and jig etc.
 
I've got one or two things to do before I start on this but I should be taking my first steps in wooden ship building in the next week or so.

Well, it is done and running much better now!
 
step 3 , find the temp folder, was easy
step 4, empty the folder was at first impossible as I wasn't allowed access
 
I searched online and discovered others had the same 3D modelling issue and they accessed the temp folder as follows
" open windows explorer and type in     %temp%    "
this opened the file and it was full of stuff!
then I typed CTRL + A to pick all
then I hit the delete key

Only a hardwood like boxwood will hold the detail of a miniature moulding. Basswood is too soft and fuzzy. I use a piece of heat-softened hacksaw blade for filing in my moulding profiles.

I would start with very simple shapes, like 2x4's or octagons anything with simple shapes and here's why. Starting with something simple will help you learn the controls and features of AUTOCAD. It will teach you where the icons are (if any) and it will help you learn the basic drawing tasks that you'll need to master to later draw your ship plans.
 
Do a search on youTube, there are numerous videos for beginners. As an extra, go to your local library and check out a high school drafting book and try to draw the simple projects they might have in the book. If you do any scroll work learn to draw your scroll patterns.
 
If you try and tackle something big and difficult, you'll get frustrated and discouraged. Don't be in a hurry and just take your time. It might take you a couple of weeks or maybe a couple of months to master enough of autocad to start your ship plans.

Good morning Don,
 
No, I haven't given up.
 
A number of things occurred to slow me down this summer.
First there was the warm inviting sunny days I hadn't seen for months.
Then extra work demanding more of my time.
Then I caught my finger on my table saw cutting stock to make a honey stick...it is healing and to my surprise the finger nail is growing back!
The end of my finger will almost look normal.
 
It has been an uphill battle with creating my templates, now using Autodesk Inventor.  My files were huge and going backwards to work on an earlier sketch caused crashes.
Then I learnt about dirty files and dumping the temp files to clean up.
I've just refined my process and starting over yet again (4th time) but not from the very beginning!
This time I honestly believe I will have it.
 
Hope to start reposting again soon.
I will also remake my keel and stern post assembly.
I know I can do a better job.
It is the learning curve that is killing me.
 
 
Alan

Alan, I was reading through the last few post and paying close attention to how you developed your hull station lines. You sketched out the water lines first and then it seems you matched the curves of the hull station to those points on the water line. Am I correct in that assessment?  Have you done a hull surface to see how smooth it is? I hope you doing well and you've just taken an extended brake.

Since my first post a little over a month ago, I have been working with Onshape. I created a Free account and I have been steadily learning how to use the program. Anyone with 3D modeling experience should have no difficulty working with this program. There is absolutely no software to download and none of the programs functionality is withheld. I did have to purchase a new graphics card as my old ATI Radeon card did not support webgl. I spent about $60 on a new card. I can pretty much do any task I want on my PC, stream video or music and the modeling is not in anyway hampered by my multi-tasking. I'm have a dual core pentium processor and it handles things very nicely. I can only imagine what the new i3 and i5 chips can do.
 
Anyway, I have spent the last two weeks remodeling my 74 gun ship in Onshape and I have modeled some other interesting parts. The starship Enterprise was an assembly of a SW model I had created several years ago.
 
This is really exciting technology be cause a doing a group build or in this case a group design is a real possibility. Several people can be working on the same part at the same time and all the changes are saved. That's another nice thing about onShape, you never have to save your work, it saves it for you. You can also go back and review every change you ever made or review your entire modeling process. 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're interested in English ship design from say 1780 -1820, I would suggest Steel's "The Shipwrights Vade Mecum" easily found on Google and Ree's "Naval Architecture" which you can find at Abe books or similar rare book stores, also Peter Goodwin's "Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War" and Scantlings of Royal Navy Ships which comprises the Repository and Steel's "Elements of Naval Architecture" by Allan Yedlinsky. Also, Deanes Doctrine of Naval Architecture which has been mentioned already, though Deanes work starts around 1670 if I recall.  The Ree's and Steel works mentioned above use a lot of the same language, nearly verbatim in some paragraphs. 
 
You could also pop on over and read thru my post "Scantling Questions" http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4080-scantling-questions/  
 
I'm currently under taking the task of drafting plans for a 74 gun ship from scratch, this is not a tracing or redrawing of existing plans, but real drafting using the sources mentioned above. You'll find references to many of the sources mentioned so far plus a few more.
 
I would recommend that you pick a subject (ship) and a time period because English ship design changed over the years and what was done in one century might not be what was done a century earlier. 

If you're interested in English ship design from say 1780 -1820, I would suggest Steel's "The Shipwrights Vade Mecum" easily found on Google and Ree's "Naval Architecture" which you can find at Abe books or similar rare book stores, also Peter Goodwin's "Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War" and Scantlings of Royal Navy Ships which comprises the Repository and Steel's "Elements of Naval Architecture" by Allan Yedlinsky. Also, Deanes Doctrine of Naval Architecture which has been mentioned already, though Deanes work starts around 1670 if I recall.  The Ree's and Steel works mentioned above use a lot of the same language, nearly verbatim in some paragraphs. 
 
You could also pop on over and read thru my post "Scantling Questions" http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4080-scantling-questions/  
 
I'm currently under taking the task of drafting plans for a 74 gun ship from scratch, this is not a tracing or redrawing of existing plans, but real drafting using the sources mentioned above. You'll find references to many of the sources mentioned so far plus a few more.
 
I would recommend that you pick a subject (ship) and a time period because English ship design changed over the years and what was done in one century might not be what was done a century earlier. 

If you're interested in English ship design from say 1780 -1820, I would suggest Steel's "The Shipwrights Vade Mecum" easily found on Google and Ree's "Naval Architecture" which you can find at Abe books or similar rare book stores, also Peter Goodwin's "Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War" and Scantlings of Royal Navy Ships which comprises the Repository and Steel's "Elements of Naval Architecture" by Allan Yedlinsky. Also, Deanes Doctrine of Naval Architecture which has been mentioned already, though Deanes work starts around 1670 if I recall.  The Ree's and Steel works mentioned above use a lot of the same language, nearly verbatim in some paragraphs. 
 
You could also pop on over and read thru my post "Scantling Questions" http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4080-scantling-questions/  
 
I'm currently under taking the task of drafting plans for a 74 gun ship from scratch, this is not a tracing or redrawing of existing plans, but real drafting using the sources mentioned above. You'll find references to many of the sources mentioned so far plus a few more.
 
I would recommend that you pick a subject (ship) and a time period because English ship design changed over the years and what was done in one century might not be what was done a century earlier. 

I would start with very simple shapes, like 2x4's or octagons anything with simple shapes and here's why. Starting with something simple will help you learn the controls and features of AUTOCAD. It will teach you where the icons are (if any) and it will help you learn the basic drawing tasks that you'll need to master to later draw your ship plans.
 
Do a search on youTube, there are numerous videos for beginners. As an extra, go to your local library and check out a high school drafting book and try to draw the simple projects they might have in the book. If you do any scroll work learn to draw your scroll patterns.
 
If you try and tackle something big and difficult, you'll get frustrated and discouraged. Don't be in a hurry and just take your time. It might take you a couple of weeks or maybe a couple of months to master enough of autocad to start your ship plans.

I would start with very simple shapes, like 2x4's or octagons anything with simple shapes and here's why. Starting with something simple will help you learn the controls and features of AUTOCAD. It will teach you where the icons are (if any) and it will help you learn the basic drawing tasks that you'll need to master to later draw your ship plans.
 
Do a search on youTube, there are numerous videos for beginners. As an extra, go to your local library and check out a high school drafting book and try to draw the simple projects they might have in the book. If you do any scroll work learn to draw your scroll patterns.
 
If you try and tackle something big and difficult, you'll get frustrated and discouraged. Don't be in a hurry and just take your time. It might take you a couple of weeks or maybe a couple of months to master enough of autocad to start your ship plans.

Don's advice is very sage.

I would start with very simple shapes, like 2x4's or octagons anything with simple shapes and here's why. Starting with something simple will help you learn the controls and features of AUTOCAD. It will teach you where the icons are (if any) and it will help you learn the basic drawing tasks that you'll need to master to later draw your ship plans.
 
Do a search on youTube, there are numerous videos for beginners. As an extra, go to your local library and check out a high school drafting book and try to draw the simple projects they might have in the book. If you do any scroll work learn to draw your scroll patterns.
 
If you try and tackle something big and difficult, you'll get frustrated and discouraged. Don't be in a hurry and just take your time. It might take you a couple of weeks or maybe a couple of months to master enough of autocad to start your ship plans.

I thought this might be of interest to all of you following this post
 
https://www.onshape.com/cad-blog/onshape-goes-to-sea

This looks very interesting! Thanks for bringing Onshape to our attention.

I thought this might be of interest to all of you following this post
 
https://www.onshape.com/cad-blog/onshape-goes-to-sea