Ab Hoving

Thanks @Doreltomin and @Baker. Alas, I'm on Apple.

Hi @shipman, I never heard this before. The pictures I take with my telephone are all 2 or 3 mb, too big for forum use. So I cut the relevant parts and use 'adjust size', which apparently makes them png. I don't know how to do it in a way that fits you. Do you mean my pictures in the thread disappear? If you want I can send you the original ones in a pm. Or you can explain how I still keep jpegs, but with a lower resolution.

This is one of the great side-effects of forums on the internet: help for free. Thank you both @Doreltomin and David (@druxey) for your help. Doreltomin: I agree that my aft deck is too long, causing big problems with the stairs to the lower part in front. I will see if I can replace the bulkhead, but I am heavily hindered by the fact that the standing rigging is almost done. This is really a beginners mistake, starting a build before thinking over the consequences of the early choice for a drawing. I'm really playing an away match. This would not have happened to me building a Dutch ship. 🙂 I am also happy with the information of how the guns were placed with the cloth wrapped around them in the gun port. I already found out that most of the decorated garlands on this ship were in fact fake, or serving different purposes than just giving way for a gun. Thank you David for your drawing of the small gun. I was not aware of this type of gun-carriage. I was however aware of the 3-pounder gun we had in the Rijksmuseum collection. I nearly broke my back on it, when I tried to hang it on a specially made iron stool mounted on the wall of one of the History halls. The hubris of youth! I will try my hand on this one, hoping for a better result.

I certainly plan to make guns, and of course they will be made out of paper. In fact I quickly did try one, but I'm not happy with the size, compared to a human body in scale: These were very small guns, without any significance for the defense of the ship. Just ceremonial I think and really tiny, like toys. That saves me the trouble of making rigging for them, they can be handled by hand. And the nine garlands around the gun ports are misleading, I can place 8 guns at the most, the rest is just for show....

Time is moving fast and though there is some progress to show, many doubts still occur. I was also hindered by a rigging job on a frigate I still work on. First my professional helpers delivered the garlands I asked for. I'm very grateful to them so the very thin curls were gilded and added to the model. The gold is still too bright, but once the hull is completely finished it wil get a wash of warm brown varnish, which will temper the looks. As I am used to the rather modest decorations on Dutch ships this excess of golden curls hurts my eyes a bit. I did learn from this project: it was a wrong decision to use the plans I showed: they result in a variant with a square bulkhead in the bow instead of the top planking leading to the stem post. The former was only done in a later stage, when the ships became bigger and were equipped with two masts, while I was aiming for a model of around 1670. It was also a wrong decision to make four windows in the stern with no extra space between de middle two. If the rudder is supposed to be steered from the top deck like in this model, it has to pass the great cabin, partly covering the two central windows. A wider space between them would have been a much wiser option. Too late. Fortunately I did not promise you a model without any flaws... Furthermore I am struggling with the entrance to the main cabin and the size and shapes of the guns. First this entrance: I guessed that it was far below the king to bow in order to get inside, so a man-height entrance was an option. I just have to find out how it was decorated. I saw something like this on a 1701 model of the MMG. Perhaps I will leave the guns out, perhaps not, I have not decided yet. On several locations they interfere with the rest of the deck furniture and I am trying to find locations with some logic in them. It is weird to place a pump besides the mast right behind a recoiling gun, or to find room for stairs with a gun so close by that there is no room for any feet. It is nice to know that there was a complete fleet of this sort of vessels, which releases me from the obligation to work after a specific ship. I like that sort of freedom. I developed a theory about the introduction of yachts in England, after Charles II received two Dutch 'statenjachts' as a gift from the Amsterdam Lord mayor. He ordered an English 'translation' to be built by his shipbuilders resulting in a more luxurious and faster vessel for his pleasures. It seems logical to me that many things from the Dutch version were adopted. I mounted a horse (the horizontal beam a few inches above deck to attach the fore sail's sheet to) after Dutch design. I will get back to my theory once we are dealing with the rigging, which in the mean time was prepared as far as I could. So more on that item in a later stage.

Haha, here come the commercials: \https://seawatchbooks.com/products/dutch-17th-century-ship-models-in-paper And I did a tutorial on this forum here: Enjoy!

They are @Bill97, I just show them to prove that there are no limitations in model building than the ones other people in their wisdom try to convince you of. By the way in case you didn't know, the models are all made of paper and card and the flags are from tissue paper (but the sails are of course made of very thin linen).

I'm not sure if I understood the mainstream of this thread. Sails on a static model look unnatural? I beg you pardon? In my humble opinion sails and flags are the few items that can bring life into a model. A picture says more than a thousand words: Model ship building is too nice a hobby to be frustrated by rules, laws and frozen opinions. Make what you like. It's the pleasure in building what it is all about.

That is exactly why I decided to ask help from professionals. I'll keep you posted Eberhard. You are entitled to. Many artists covered his songs. But 'nobody sings Dylan like Dylan' (except perhaps the artist who played him in the movie: Timothee Chalamet, who even did the singing in this biopic himself). The movie 'A complete unknown' stirred a lot of feelings in me I had forgotten about. Even though I have Dylan's complete work (I think its 64 albums by now). I am an addict.

Finally I found the time to make some small steps for my 'royal yacht'. In the mean time it is (again) clear to me that a hasty start with a model is not the best way to begin. Several odd things popped up, demanding time to find solutions. The stern is taking shape, although doubts remain, in accordance with my overall feelings about this project. I plan to add some graceful garlands to the black upper planking, but so far I failed. What I cut out of 0,5 card is too heavy, it must be much more frel (Is that a word? My Google translate says it is.) Anyway, I called in help from my son and Herbert Tomesen (Artitec), so we will see what he comes up with. Awaiting some action, but for so long: 'Shoemaker stick to your last'. This is an old saying, holding a lot of truth. I was deeply impressed by the movie about Bob Dylan. My youth passed by. What a fantastic film and what a fantastic actor and what a fantastic singer/songwriter... I have been a fan ever since The times they are a changing. 1964?

I use only very cheap materials: boxes from frozen pizzas, shoeboxes and such. Paper for water color painting is not particularly smooth, so it can't be used because of its rough surface and its more or less spongy material. But indeed, the model I restored was done with leftovers, donated by a Rijksmuseum Prentencabinet colleague conservator. At least 200 years old remains of restorations. Such paper was hand made out of rags, in a paper mill. Smooth as a baby skin. I doubt if such paper still exists. It could be cut to very tiny threads and still did not fall apart or delaminated. And not a sign of aging. Wonderful stuff. Is it a problem that paper models don't last for ages? Not for me. I have seen too many wrecked wooden and metal models. Nothing lasts, we ourselves certainly not. Why worry? Just enjoy seeing a model grow in your hands...

I once restored a paper model from 1830. But paper was a whole different material in those days. There was no wood in it, so it lasted very long.

Slow progress. Painting is tedious if you have to wait until it has all dried. Fortunately there are other things I can do in the times between, but life intervenes. Have to find more time (or more excuses to take time to build). Before gilding the beak head I use yellow paint underneath. Compared to the Dutch yachts the gilding is outrageous. Of course it's a matter of taste, but I think more failures can be masked with multicolored painting than by gilding alone. We will see if it all works out.

Hallo Eberhardt, I agree. Indeed the Elder did the pen-paintings, his son painted in oil paint. Rumor has it that the Elder was not a guild member and was therefore not allowed to make paintings. I don't know if that is true. Later, after father and son moved to England in 1672 the father tried his hand on some paintings too, but without the excellence his son showed. The Elder witnessed several sea battles, but that the son also worked from nature can (among other proofs) be seen on my sketch from his hand. Yes, working with paper is unbelievably fast compared with other materials. Probably the models won't last as long, but that is not my problem. I enjoy seeing them in the state I make them. It fits my sloppy nature....

The detailing is indeed amazing. The man used a reed-pen. Look at the hatching:

Just like you said: I get them. I help a befriended art dealer with some explanatory texts and information on his maritime paintings, and sometimes he finds things that are not very profitable as merchandise, but gold in the hands of fools like me. He understands my madness. Earlier he donated a beautiful life-size copy of a Van de Velde grisaille, which hangs in my living now.

Come on Jan, this is pottery compared with your Sovereign of the Seas. You can do better with two fingers in your nose. 🙂

Slow progress, mainly as a result of long drying times of paint. But at least we are getting an impression of how it might develop. Still a lot of mistakes and untidinesses to hide... I had some real gold leave left so I try to use it for this model.

In the thread 'What did you receive today' I reported the arrival of my own Willem van de Velde drawing. I realise that the picture was rather misty: So with the help of my son and his computer tricks we created a clearer picture in which all the pencil lines are easy to distinguish: So now we can see exactly what was drawn and we can admire the incredible technique of the artist in picturing a recognizable ship type in only a few lines. It almost looks like a handwriting. I also own two small rubb-offs made by the same artist. Also very unclear. With the same technique we can now see exactly was was drawn. A rubb-off is a sort of a tissue paper, that was laid over drawings freshly made with a silverpoint, an early lead pencil, to prevent the lines to be smeared out over the drawing. The result is a slightly lighter drawing in mirror image. I own two of them, donated by the same art dealer: Van de Velde obviously made such sketches from nature, to be used for details in his paintings. I cherish them.

Ten days ago I started this model with little more than an original design drawing and some pictures of other models. The hull (overall length 33 cm) is ready for painting now. As you can see most of the untidy 'loose ends' have been cured and I made some progress in planning what the model will look once it is finished. I never make models of actual ships, I just show the type and that seems to be a lucky decision here, because of all the models I saw I can only say that none of them is similar to the others. That gives a lot of freedom, which is exactly how I like it. The stern I (temporarily) added is just a first stage one. I will find out how to make it acceptable. The lining of the hull planks look better in reality than in the grazing light available when I made the pictures. Choices have been made. I chose for a front bulkhead instead of hull planking up to the stem post. The bowsprit will not rest on top of the stem post, but beside it. The panels for the inside of the bulwarks have already been painted red and will be glued in as soon as the decks are painted. I will have to make a stand now, so I can draw the waterline, after which the usual painting of the outside will be done. A lot of time will pass while the paint is drying, which gives me the opportunity to make all sorts of details for both the inside and the outside of the model. I'll keep you posted.

There is a world of difference between the two. The Dutch shape is very full, almost square, the English one was sharp: The Dutch shape was meant to push the water under the hull and slide over it, 'like a duck's breast', the English shape really cuts the water. No doubt much faster, still originally derived from the Dutch example, which was presented to Charles II by an Amsterdam lord mayor in 1660. It did not stop Charles to start the Anglo-Dutch wars. The English master shipwrights made a beautiful 'translation' of the Dutch example.

Planking a hull in less than an hour: Still a lot to do (and a lot to hide :-)).

I started planking the upper strakes with c-d-fix self adhesive latex. The top planking will have to be covered with carvings, so that is for later. Things are going real fast now. Covering up all the mistakes I made in previous phases. Glueing on the covering boards is a start for a neat finish.

The longitudinal planks are glued on, they needed some sanding, which makes them a bit furry. I use shellac to mend that. Some filler here and there is also necessary. That's how it goes building from scratch.... The inside of the bulwarks is stiffened with an extra layer of card and the outside is planked. I work about six hours a day and I think for a small ship like this one a week should be enough to roughly finish the hull. But then the deck furniture and the decorations follow, not to mention the rigging. Still a long way to go....

Thank you Patrick, most helpful. Don't pick up my wrong habits. 🙂