ClipperFan
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Guys, remember when we were trying to decide if Glory's Rear Carriage House stayed the same width fore to aft or if it narrowed to fit the contours of the poop deck? Well here's the answer. Incontrovertible proof. It definitely narrows. Compare the square roofline of the Rear Wheelhouse to the widening one of the Carriage House, it's clear that the Rear House roofline is smaller towards to rear and larger towards the front. I also see a very slight, almost imperceptible curve as well. In case anybody can't enlarge the original photo, I've edited the scene in order to make this easier to see. Look at the Port side Carriage House railing to see the subtle graceful curve of the railing too.
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Vladimir, from what I understand, and from the layout of Appendix B in Mike's 2nd book "Clipper Ship Captain" how you described hatch layouts is correct. 12' dimension is across deck and 10' shorter length is oriented Bow to Stern. As for the Rear Carriage House, I could be mistaken but from the few images available, it appears that the front is actually flush with the beginning of the poop deck. Rob can correct me if my information is inaccurate. If he does, I'd welcome any visual evidence to support it. The 3' overhang goes beyond the poop.
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Rob, Mike said he's going to mention the 1911 overall view of Glory in Seattle to Ron Haug. I told him how his other photos have been instrumental in helping us develop the accurate look of her Rear Carriage House, including her narrow windows, narrow sliding doors and interesting design layout of her 11 upper turned rails. Even how I stumbled on her neat wrought iron bars at the end of her poop rails. I also stated that as far as I'm aware, your model under construction and Vladimir's are the two most accurate versions of Glory being produced right now. For an eventual Journal article, since your's is based on a post 1872 version while Vlad's will be her original configuration, it will add even more interest.
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Rob, your Rear Carriage House is shaping up very nicely. From a nautical design philosophy, I like how the low profile emphasizes stability of the vessel herself.
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Rob, it truly is uncanny how two separately, scratch built models so closely match. It really is a tribute to months of painstaking work of all involved in our most in depth research as to the true nature of this incredibly powerful yet lovely vessel.
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Rob, since this suggestion comes directly from Michael Mjelde himself, who as far as I know was at one point the Editor (?) or possibly even President (?) of the Nautical Research Society which publishes the journal, I believe this is a genuine possibility.
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Rob, go back to the picture of the ship's boy resting against the front of the Rear Carriage House, it's in Mike's first book "Glory of the Seas". The turned stanchion rails actually rest on a slightly elevated section which encircles the entire roof. It appears to be about a foot wide, maybe 6" deep. Another words the roof is indented 6" from the rails themselves. So the rail height is probably 30" from the house but actually 3' from the deck's indented roof. Just another fascinating little detail most would overlook As far as the poop deck ladder from the main deck, at first I was only able to count 3 rungs on the Starboard side, however I missed the bottom rung which was slightly faded. There are indeed 4 rungs to those ladders.
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Rob, believe me, I personally have used large ornate heavy wooden sliding doors with round glass door knobs. I wouldn't get hung up on that issue. Meanwhile here's the side of the Rear Carriage House, using 3/16" = 1' scale.
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Rob, Vladimir in his most recent communication with me Mike wrote the following: "Our ultimate goal is to attain a degree of accuracy which will far exceed anything done in the past based on careful analysis of cumulative data gathered by a number of people. It would be great if at the end someone is able to put together a definitive article, backed by photographs of actual models, for Nautical Research Journal." Of course, as I have been observing all along, you Rob and Vladimir have, in my modest opinion, the two most accurate replicas ever undertaken in the world today. I suppose Ron Haug could build a professional model too but unless he uses our lines, his results won't match images of the real vessel at all.
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Rob, Vladimir, as usual it's not perfect but I figure this is close enough to be usable for the front of Glory's Rear Carriage House. I'm doing the side now and should have it done soon.
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Rob, that's simply beautiful! I love how you managed to replicate the slight inward cant of the turned stanchions. Speaking of which, you also did an amazing job of capturing the pattern of those fat, stubby stanchions too. It really captures what I call "the woodeness" of it all. By keeping all of these elements to scale it actually increases the size of the overall vessel as well. Great job!
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Vladimir, first, I love the selection of pearl you chose. It offsets the white very nicely. Just remember all flat areas are supposed to be pearl and raised surfaces white. The decking subflooring, like Rob already said is perfect. I'm sure it will look amazing when the deck overlay is added. The printed carved Naval Hoods and Carved Arch look really sharp too. I can't wait to see these areas gilded, it's going to be stunning. If it helps, the double molding at top is slightly thinner than the triple ones below. To make it interesting, the upper two moldings themselves are slightly thicker. Meanwhile all three lower ones are skinnier. The 1911 starboard bow scene shows this area perfectly. Good luck!
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Rob, thanks for your feedback. I agree. Thanks to Vladimir's input, I took a closer look in the shadows and was able to discern the flatter windows as well as the doors. As soon as I complete the front fascia, I will sketch the side with the fancy bracket utilizing my best estimate of how it appears on the Wheelhouse.
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Rob, Vladimir in my ongoing efforts to accurately capture the glory of the ornate face of Rear Carriage House, here's my latest results. The left side has incorporated all revisions suggested by you both. From much closer inspection, the doors and windows definitely have an arched component to them, more subdued than the semi circles of before. Interestingly enough, the actual door from Glory is almost identical. The entire house now shows 11 stanchions, which are the most accurate count & distance I can calculate. The right face hasn't been revised yet. If you agree with the left side, that's how I would revise the right one.
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Rob, here's the scene I was referring to. I've enlarged the rear Wheelhouse. Actually if you pay attention to the "negative space" created by the shadow you can get a fairly decent idea of how ornate the bracket really was. I suspect for the sake of consistency, brackets on the front of the Rear Carriage House would have been identical. Update: I found a larger image of the same scene. Whether the edited version of the Rear Wheelhouse is any sharper is hard to tell but I figured it might. If not, you should be able to see better details in the more detailed photo too.
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Rob, Vladimir, FINALLY! After over 12 long years of intense, careful research, I have produced what I consider my finest print of Donald McKay's1869 Medium Clipper "GLORY of the SEAS" hull. Is it perfect? Certainly not but I've come to accept that nothing in life truly is. But there's also this thing in life called the "relentless pursuit of perfection" in which nothing is ever truly finished. I will say this. Every possible, quantifiable, measurable property has been meticulously reproduced in the exacting scale of 1:96th (1/8th inch = 1 foot) identical to Rob's model in production now. The first print Staples did is more clear than this but some of the lighter work was barely visible. It also has a future copywrite date by mistake. This image produced by Staples has been darkened more than the first, which has advantages and drawbacks. All elements are now clearly visible but it blurs out the delicate work around the Bow. I'm mailing out both prints to Michael Mjelde in duplicate so he can forward copies to his Shipwright buddy Ron Haug for his evaluation. I have printed enough copies to share one of each with Rob and Vladimir, just PM me your addresses. While this is about a 43" long print, it's actually not terribly tall and will fit easily into a mailing tube. I can also email the pdf & jpg images as well.
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Rob, if you can, enlarge the 1869 East Boston fitting out scene. That's about the best I've seen. You can see brackets for both the Wheelhouse and Rear Carriage House.
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Rob & Vladimir, That's amazing, If I didn't know better, I would think I'm looking at the same model! It's indeed a testimony to our groups combined research & to both of your incredible modeling skills.
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Rob, agreed. My bet would be that these ornamental outer brackets would mirror those that are just barely visible on the front sides of the original rear Wheelhouse. When I'm done with the Rear House, I'll work on it.
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Vladimir, first thanks for your appreciation of my drafting efforts. I deeply appreciate it. I'm in the process of redoing my large sketch (yet again). I've redone the 11 stanchions and it now much more closely matches images in the pics. Thank you Rob for making me review the post count one last time. My revisions will also include a deeper lower molding but comparisons I've seen seem to show that the ornamental soffett below rooftop is slightly deeper than the blue molding at the base of the house. Doors and windows now align equally.
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Rob & Vladimir, I think I've finally calculated correct spacing for front 11 stanchions. Starting with 26', outer 4 are 1 & 1/2' apart for a total of 3', leaving 23', inner 3 are 2 & 1/2' apart for a total of 5'. 23' - 5' is 18' ÷ 6 = 3' each. When I get home from wife's dental appointment, I will recheck my math and sketch it out, it should work. Also, I looked into the dark area above the door and there's definitely a small area above it, probably 6" of uninterrupted space. Also the windows appear to flatten out to remain aligned with top of the doors. I think we're getting closer to 'nailing this down.'
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Rob, since there are no visible door hinges on the right side, where you'd expect them to be, my impression is that these are indeed sliders. I once lived in a Century old home with fantastically large over 7' tall ornately carved heavy oak doors. They were hanging sliders with ornate round glass door knobs. Another factor which makes the original ornateness of the wooden carving of Glory's structure is what appears to be many layers of paint over the decades.
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Vladimir, I agree with both of your points. The very upper edge of the house is in shadows, so it's hard to make out specific details. From a design viewpoint, it would make sense that major elements such as windows and doors would match. From a construction viewpoint, even just for structural integrity, there should be at least a small area, maybe 6" that is uninterrupted by any cut outs. Since I have to redesign the upper stanchions, I will also redo the front as well to incorporate these revisions too.
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Rob, until I just made a much closer inspection of the deck level image, I could have sworn there were a dozen stanchions. After taking a very close inspection of that picture (again thank you Mike) I now count 11. This time you can see the left side of the house. Interestingly enough, the ladders to the upper poop deck are also visible on the left, between the ship's lifeboat and house, as well as the outer poop deck rails which continue to cant inwards for as far as is visible. My new conclusion now is that there are definitely only 11 stanchions. 9 central and 2 outriggers, for lack of a better term.
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