ClipperFan
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Johnny, that's great information to have which helps those of us trying to accurately visualize what shade paints from the 1800s actually were. Thanks for your valuable input.- 3,560 replies
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Rob, the "gingerbread effect" of your Rear Carriage House facade is just gorgeous. I'm sure it must be even more impressive in person. Mike confirmed to me that the twin skylights were 6' long x 4' wide (3/4" × 1/4") had 4' (1/4") between them, were 5' (5/8") away from the center of the Mizzenmast and 12' (1 & 1/2") away from the rear roofline to the rear of the skylight closest to the it. That's in accordance with Mike's Rear House layout, pg 175 "Clipper Ship Captain." From the same book, Appendix B ship's plans, the skylights appear to be 3' (3/8") tall at their centers. The front and rear insets, from the little photographic evidence available appears to be much less than the two sides, which appear to be deep enough to double as benches. If we assign 18" (3/16ths") height for the base, that leaves us 18" for skylight height, 12" (1/8") for the upper base & 6" (1/16th") for peaked center. Insetting each side by 1' (1/8th") +3" (1/32") overhang for minimum 15" (5/32nds") bench depth leaves 2' (1/4") width. I'll get some sketches to you tomorrow.
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Vladimir, actually, while the long cabin abaft the Foremast is larger, it's actually a simpler rectangular design. While there's some sculpture on the upper level, the lower one is pretty plain in comparison, so it should be easier than what you already built.
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Rob, as a teenager I had the distinct priviledge of spending hours visiting a fantastic, incredibly powerful miniature city in Amsterdam, Holland called "Maudorodam." One of the most exciting discoveries in this magical fantasyland was the phenomenal detail in every "nook and cranny" of the place. I'm just as sure that observers will also notice the beautiful details you've built into your replica as well.
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Rob, your results speak for themselves. After having collaborated with you, Vlad and others who have participated in this fascinating journey, I have no doubt that absolute fealty to authenticity and accuracy is your North Star in your miniature recreation. I highly doubt that anyone will fault a color choice when your vessel is complete.
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Rob, I showed these pics of your latest construction to my wife. Peggy was in awe and simply said "Oh my God, that's beautiful!" I couldn't agree with her any more. I particularly like the corner brackets which really ties it all together nicely. Rob, what Pat said makes total sense. It also explains why all structures had the same double molding painted the same blue. A few months ago I found an 1800s Era mirror supposedly with correct original blue. It's definitely a darker shade. Again I'm not suggesting any changes be made to your current color choices which I really like. I just thought you might appreciate seeing this.
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Rob, that looks magnificent. If there's any "muddling" going on, it's not visible from what I see. Great work!
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Rob, Prior to your evolving effort, this model is the most recognizably replica of "GLORY of the SEAS." Odd that none of the rails were completed. In person, this must be quite impressive. It appears like the only area that doesn't have the consistent waterway shade are the sides of the Rear Carriage House as even the front fascia appears to have that light blue trim. Even the tiny skylights have them at the base only. It makes sense from a design purpose as it lends theme consistency to the entire vessel.
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Rob, blue waterways were almost always McKay's practice. One exception was "Lightning" which had lead colored waterways. Glory's waterways were definitely identified as having been painted blue. As for my inclination to say the skylights had blue & white trim, that's based on subtle shade differences I see in both pictures of them. The blue shade on the base of the Rear Carriage House appears to be lighter than nearby wooden browns. There's a similar difference in the trim of the sides of the skylights. It's subtle but noticeable. However, the Walters' oil only shows brown for the tops of the skylights. Meanwhile all MacLean said was that her sides were Pearl, relieved with White and her waterways Blue. Bottom line, it's a personal choice how you want to decorate the skylight trim.
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Rob, photographic evidence supports conclusion that the bases of all structures were painted the same shade of blue. Not just the waterways. It also appears, at least in the case of twin skylights that some trim was also painted the same shade. From what I can tell, the skylights were most likely pearl base, trimmed in white, edged blue with natural wood shades. While it's not specified, the blue you already chose looks like it would work well throughout your Ship.
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Simon, I was born in Cairo, Egypt. Of all crazy things, I still know an elaborate curse which, if truly said to another in Arabic would end up in myself, my son, his children and his children's children all living under threat of death (a literal Fatwah) forever! I remember two other fragments "Hutah Koorah!" Throw the ball & "Geboiah moiah" give me water. Crazy, huh?
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Vladimir, I would tell you but that would hijack this topic..... and of course, I'd have to kill you. (My dad was a genuine Cold War spy)
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Vladimir "Rainy days and Mondays always get Ships built!" A funny but true experience of my first day at Würzburg Hochschüle. Our dad, who worked at the US base nearby dropped us off. It was still dark, so we played in the schoolyard until it was light. We tried every visible door. They were all locked. The building was dark, unoccupied. Gradually an old janitor came along. We told him "Ich bin ein Amerikaner, waroom schuler nicht offnet?" Mind you, this was using a small English - German translation pamphlet. The old man told us "Gehen sie weght! "Leherertag" when we couldn't understand his fast talking german, we said "langsemer" meaning slower, while we desperately flipped between pages to translate. He proceeded to rant at us "Aselkopf! Schweinkopf!! Scheisskopf!!! Verukte Amerikaner, gehen sie weght! Keine schuler heute!" I told my brother Steve. This old Coot's insulting us in german. After a long time of gradually translating, we realized school was cancelled for a teacher's training session. But the rest of the day we repeatedly insulted each other in the new german words we had learned. Absolutely true story.
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Vladimir, having spent nearly 2 years of my teenage years in West Germany back in the 60s, I can relate to the challenges of communicating in a foreign language. I just want you to know that you're doing an excellent job. When it comes to the Slovakian language I would need an interpreter or at least a book that would allow me to understand what the Hell it was you were saying! 😉
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Vladimir, your wooden insert & walnut joinery work is so elegant & beautiful, I feel it would be a shame to paint it over. Leaving it natural would be a nice compliment to the Rear House front fascia. Besides, from what Michael has told me, often structures were left natural and varnished whereas other times they were painted. In his 1869 detailed description of Glory, publicist Duncan MacLean described all lower decks as being left varnished natural wood. Photographic evidence could support your supposition too. The sole image we have of the area under the forecastle is of the Ship's Boy taken from the Rear House. The Ship's Bow is visible at a great distance. It's in shadows but from what I can tell it's dark like natural wood would be.
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Rob, you're welcome. It's a thin line I walk between being helpful guidance and a pain in the a$$ 'rivet counter' know it all. Believe me when I say I'm doing my best to be helpful and not the latter.
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Vladimir, those are amazing! It's hard to believe these were all individually hand made. I love your Assembly style approach, brilliant! Just a friendly reminder. The roof posts all mount on the inner top of the white molding that surrounds the upper Rear House deck. There's a very slight cant inwards too. The outermost 4 cant more dramatically then the rest. Rob mentioned that there's a neat wrought iron rail at the aft end of the House. Before Wheelhouse expansion the rail would have continued around the rear, attaching to the rear companion entrance to the House, located only on the Port side. To assist you in double checking dimensions, here's a link to a helpful scale calculator: http://www.scalemodelersworld.com/online-scale-converter-tool.html#aScaleConvert
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Rob, from the calculator I work with 24" = 5/16ths" & 30" = 7/16ths" not much bigger than yours
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Rob, you know I'll "bring the hammer down" on Vlad if he doesn't stick to his scale! 😉 Just kidding Vlad. We all know you're fully committed to keeping everything to proper scale but Rob's right. At 1:72nd scale, if you want to keep your rail height at 30" (2 & 1/2') including the rail, your posts will have to be below 1/2". Good luck buddy, we're all pulling for you!
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Vladimir, the single turned stanchion you made for the Rear Carriage House is amazing. It looks practically identical to those in the photo on the vessel itself. Bravo!
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Rob, beautiful work. Now the more subdued vent profile enhances the size of the Helm House it's built on, instead of competing with it as it had before. I'm sorry if I embarrassed you but it felt necessary to help you correct an issue which, while not huge would have still diminished overall accuracy of your recreation. When considering a very real likelihood that your completed effort, as well as Vlad's will be included in an upcoming Nautical Research Journal article on accurizing "GLORY of the SEAS" it puts even more emphasis on remaining true to the original as faithfully as possible.
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Vladimir wow! That's what my wife and son said when I showed them the pictures of your Rear House. Just beautiful work.
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Rob, since these raised panels are on the Front House, Wheelhouse and front fascia of Rear House, it's looking more and more like this was a consistent design element on Glory. The challenge with this particular pic is that on the original, it's a very tiny element but it's definitely there. I thought you guys would appreciate knowing.
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George K, meanwhile I forgot to compliment you on your excellent coppering job on "Flying Fish" for which I apologize. I'm looking forward to the beautiful progress you're making on your ship. Dover is a great book. I really enjoyed it myself. Later I learned about Richard McKay's original publication with the different title. Being an artist myself, I enjoyed the added rare full color paintings and there's more specifics, including fascinating references in the original. Since it was widely published, decent copies are still available for 20 bucks. I thought you might appreciate knowing.
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Rob, the last thing I want is to make you feel that I'm out to "get you" or Vlad. As I've always said, it's my goal to be of assistance in maintaining scale accuracy in order to assure you both create the most accurate reproduction of Glory possible. To assist you, I've attached a small sketch of what I see in the photos. The louvers can be painted, they look like they were natural wood anyway. Meanwhile, I'll redouble my efforts to sketch more structures accurately in advance.
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