ClipperFan
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Rob, it really pains me to say this, as it looks like I'm being over critical but since I know your goal is to be as authentic to Glory as possible, so here goes. Upon a second look at your Helm House, it looks like it could be too wide, throwing off the scale of your poop deck. Looking at the Alaskan stern view, I count four poop deck stanchions framing the Stern of the Helm House. Figuring these are 3' apart gives a maximum dimension of 12' (1 & 1/2"). That leaves enough room for a pair of ladders on each side with 4 Carriage House Stanchions for the turn of the rail, probably set 1 & 1/2 apart, mirroring the front sets. As your model is configured now, there just doesn't appear to be enough room to replicate these features. Feel free to correct me if you feel I'm mistaken. -
Rob, you continue to do impressive work. It will be fun to see Glory's very busy deck be realized as you continue with her neat little gangway to the Boy's House and all the other various modifications post 1872.
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Vladimir, thanks for the vociferous comments.... 😉 Incidentally, scale being used for this piece is 1" = 2'. I measured out 4' width (2") in entirety. Than I did my best to approximate 7" sheer rail molding, topped by 6" (1/2") shelf molding below and 6" shelf molding above, topped by another 6" upper main rail molding. "GLORY & "SEAS" lettering are 1' tall, it appears that the "OF THE" is 1/2' while "BOSTON" is most likely 8" on the vessel herself. Distance across is a graceful elliptical arch covering 16' (4" ea side in the drawing). Interestingly too, the style of the transom lettering is entirely different than that on her carved signboard. I suspect that's most likely because they were carved as individual elements, then attached permanently to her hull.
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Vladimir, truly beautiful work with extremely delicate hand carving and painting. I especially like Glory's nameboard lettering which is highly accurate for scale. You and Rob are doing an incredible job bringing Glory's true, unique beauty to life. A concern about notifications that I have Vlad is that while I get notified when Rob posts new activity. I don't for you. Is there a setting I need to do in order to receive them?
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Incidentally, I literally stumbled upon the Carriage House configuration while concentrating on Glory's Stern display. Here's my progress on that issue. Again, emphasis on work in progress. The lettering and fancy doo-dad between them is as accurate as I can get. Carved scrollwork is pure conjecture based on her carved Cutwater arch.
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Guys, remember when we were trying to decide if Glory's Rear Carriage House stayed the same width fore to aft or if it narrowed to fit the contours of the poop deck? Well here's the answer. Incontrovertible proof. It definitely narrows. Compare the square roofline of the Rear Wheelhouse to the widening one of the Carriage House, it's clear that the Rear House roofline is smaller towards to rear and larger towards the front. I also see a very slight, almost imperceptible curve as well. In case anybody can't enlarge the original photo, I've edited the scene in order to make this easier to see. Look at the Port side Carriage House railing to see the subtle graceful curve of the railing too.
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Vladimir, from what I understand, and from the layout of Appendix B in Mike's 2nd book "Clipper Ship Captain" how you described hatch layouts is correct. 12' dimension is across deck and 10' shorter length is oriented Bow to Stern. As for the Rear Carriage House, I could be mistaken but from the few images available, it appears that the front is actually flush with the beginning of the poop deck. Rob can correct me if my information is inaccurate. If he does, I'd welcome any visual evidence to support it. The 3' overhang goes beyond the poop.
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Rob, Mike said he's going to mention the 1911 overall view of Glory in Seattle to Ron Haug. I told him how his other photos have been instrumental in helping us develop the accurate look of her Rear Carriage House, including her narrow windows, narrow sliding doors and interesting design layout of her 11 upper turned rails. Even how I stumbled on her neat wrought iron bars at the end of her poop rails. I also stated that as far as I'm aware, your model under construction and Vladimir's are the two most accurate versions of Glory being produced right now. For an eventual Journal article, since your's is based on a post 1872 version while Vlad's will be her original configuration, it will add even more interest.
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Rob, your Rear Carriage House is shaping up very nicely. From a nautical design philosophy, I like how the low profile emphasizes stability of the vessel herself.
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Rob, it truly is uncanny how two separately, scratch built models so closely match. It really is a tribute to months of painstaking work of all involved in our most in depth research as to the true nature of this incredibly powerful yet lovely vessel.
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Rob, since this suggestion comes directly from Michael Mjelde himself, who as far as I know was at one point the Editor (?) or possibly even President (?) of the Nautical Research Society which publishes the journal, I believe this is a genuine possibility.
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Rob, go back to the picture of the ship's boy resting against the front of the Rear Carriage House, it's in Mike's first book "Glory of the Seas". The turned stanchion rails actually rest on a slightly elevated section which encircles the entire roof. It appears to be about a foot wide, maybe 6" deep. Another words the roof is indented 6" from the rails themselves. So the rail height is probably 30" from the house but actually 3' from the deck's indented roof. Just another fascinating little detail most would overlook As far as the poop deck ladder from the main deck, at first I was only able to count 3 rungs on the Starboard side, however I missed the bottom rung which was slightly faded. There are indeed 4 rungs to those ladders.
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Rob, believe me, I personally have used large ornate heavy wooden sliding doors with round glass door knobs. I wouldn't get hung up on that issue. Meanwhile here's the side of the Rear Carriage House, using 3/16" = 1' scale.
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Rob, Vladimir in his most recent communication with me Mike wrote the following: "Our ultimate goal is to attain a degree of accuracy which will far exceed anything done in the past based on careful analysis of cumulative data gathered by a number of people. It would be great if at the end someone is able to put together a definitive article, backed by photographs of actual models, for Nautical Research Journal." Of course, as I have been observing all along, you Rob and Vladimir have, in my modest opinion, the two most accurate replicas ever undertaken in the world today. I suppose Ron Haug could build a professional model too but unless he uses our lines, his results won't match images of the real vessel at all.
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Rob, Vladimir, as usual it's not perfect but I figure this is close enough to be usable for the front of Glory's Rear Carriage House. I'm doing the side now and should have it done soon.
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Rob, that's simply beautiful! I love how you managed to replicate the slight inward cant of the turned stanchions. Speaking of which, you also did an amazing job of capturing the pattern of those fat, stubby stanchions too. It really captures what I call "the woodeness" of it all. By keeping all of these elements to scale it actually increases the size of the overall vessel as well. Great job!
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Vladimir, first, I love the selection of pearl you chose. It offsets the white very nicely. Just remember all flat areas are supposed to be pearl and raised surfaces white. The decking subflooring, like Rob already said is perfect. I'm sure it will look amazing when the deck overlay is added. The printed carved Naval Hoods and Carved Arch look really sharp too. I can't wait to see these areas gilded, it's going to be stunning. If it helps, the double molding at top is slightly thinner than the triple ones below. To make it interesting, the upper two moldings themselves are slightly thicker. Meanwhile all three lower ones are skinnier. The 1911 starboard bow scene shows this area perfectly. Good luck!
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Rob, thanks for your feedback. I agree. Thanks to Vladimir's input, I took a closer look in the shadows and was able to discern the flatter windows as well as the doors. As soon as I complete the front fascia, I will sketch the side with the fancy bracket utilizing my best estimate of how it appears on the Wheelhouse.
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Rob, Vladimir in my ongoing efforts to accurately capture the glory of the ornate face of Rear Carriage House, here's my latest results. The left side has incorporated all revisions suggested by you both. From much closer inspection, the doors and windows definitely have an arched component to them, more subdued than the semi circles of before. Interestingly enough, the actual door from Glory is almost identical. The entire house now shows 11 stanchions, which are the most accurate count & distance I can calculate. The right face hasn't been revised yet. If you agree with the left side, that's how I would revise the right one.
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Rob, here's the scene I was referring to. I've enlarged the rear Wheelhouse. Actually if you pay attention to the "negative space" created by the shadow you can get a fairly decent idea of how ornate the bracket really was. I suspect for the sake of consistency, brackets on the front of the Rear Carriage House would have been identical. Update: I found a larger image of the same scene. Whether the edited version of the Rear Wheelhouse is any sharper is hard to tell but I figured it might. If not, you should be able to see better details in the more detailed photo too.
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Rob, Vladimir, FINALLY! After over 12 long years of intense, careful research, I have produced what I consider my finest print of Donald McKay's1869 Medium Clipper "GLORY of the SEAS" hull. Is it perfect? Certainly not but I've come to accept that nothing in life truly is. But there's also this thing in life called the "relentless pursuit of perfection" in which nothing is ever truly finished. I will say this. Every possible, quantifiable, measurable property has been meticulously reproduced in the exacting scale of 1:96th (1/8th inch = 1 foot) identical to Rob's model in production now. The first print Staples did is more clear than this but some of the lighter work was barely visible. It also has a future copywrite date by mistake. This image produced by Staples has been darkened more than the first, which has advantages and drawbacks. All elements are now clearly visible but it blurs out the delicate work around the Bow. I'm mailing out both prints to Michael Mjelde in duplicate so he can forward copies to his Shipwright buddy Ron Haug for his evaluation. I have printed enough copies to share one of each with Rob and Vladimir, just PM me your addresses. While this is about a 43" long print, it's actually not terribly tall and will fit easily into a mailing tube. I can also email the pdf & jpg images as well.
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Rob, if you can, enlarge the 1869 East Boston fitting out scene. That's about the best I've seen. You can see brackets for both the Wheelhouse and Rear Carriage House.
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Rob & Vladimir, That's amazing, If I didn't know better, I would think I'm looking at the same model! It's indeed a testimony to our groups combined research & to both of your incredible modeling skills.
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Rob, agreed. My bet would be that these ornamental outer brackets would mirror those that are just barely visible on the front sides of the original rear Wheelhouse. When I'm done with the Rear House, I'll work on it.
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