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ClipperFan

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  1. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, Your stern looks much closer to Glory's. The drop below the Main Rail molding doesn't bulge out that I see, it's more of a graceful drop and it's a little deeper than your profile. It's hard to tell but it looks to be around 3 1/2'. The edge is visible on her Stern Starboard quarter. Nice catch on that, I didn't see it until you pointed that out.
  2. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, My apologies if descriptions I give are too confusing. I will try to make it simpler. Upper right side of this page, third line down "seven FOOT sheer. None of McKay's Clippers had a sheer in INCHES.
  3. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, It looks overall like you're getting so close. What I've noticed is that Glory's 1st notch (bit) aligns up with the inclined top edge of her Naval Hood. The triple moldings of the Hood's lower edge aren't verticle, they actually each are a little shorter to coincide with the inclined edge which blends with the curve of her prow. You'll need to shorten the top two ribbons in her carving which both end exactly at that edge point. Again, reference the hawse line from the bit in the photo which goes directly over the "E" in "SEAS", it aligns perfectly with that starting edge. Her Bowsprit angle would be much closer to the outer top of the Naval Hood. Look at the 1807 San Pedro Bow, there's no daylight between her Bowsprit and Hood. At Sea, this would all be rigged as tight as possible, since any slack would be disastrous for her massive rigging. Then Glory's transition from her keel to stem is a quarter circle, not the sharp juncture you have. See her 1869 scene on the Ways and look closely at the very bottom of her Prow You are making remarkable progress and it's very exciting to see.
  4. ClipperFan
    TheAuthorsDaughter That's fascinating to learn there's yet one more vestige of Donald McKay's last Clipper left. Thanks for sharing that with us. Of course if you have any pics of it, that would be marvelous to see!
  5. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, That looks much better. Glory's Bowsprit was 34" in diameter & 24 feet outboard. There are 7 iron bands, each 3' apart & 1 additional band which wraps around both her Bowsprit and Jibboom above. There's 18" before band 1 & 18" beyond band 7 to the Cap. The head of Athene lines up midway between band 2 & 3. That puts her 7 1/2 feet from the center of band 1 and 9 feet from the beginning of the Bowsprit. I believe Rob also said Athene's exactly 7 1/2 feet from the inner Bobstay mount on the Bowsprit too.
  6. ClipperFan
    Druxey, Yes. Look very closely at the object up near Athene's tight hair bun. Notice the small oval? That's the neatly severed wrist of her right hand. Only her right thumb is hidden under the drapery, her entire right hand is visible above the drapery. I'm positive of this. Below, just to the right of a dark area at the nape of Athene's neck is her right shoulder, then there's another oval with a tiny black dot in it. That's her severed upper right arm. That dot is most likely an iron armature, as best I can guess. It must have been one powerful wave to snap her arm off so cleanly. There's an old newspaper article that refers to the fact that the young East Boston beauty who posed for Glory's figurehead drowned. When her body was recovered she was missing an arm. Apparently at the same time the Sea gave up her dead, a freak wave struck "Glory of the Seas" and removed her Figurehead's right arm. Superstitious sailors tried to replace it but were never successful.
  7. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, The devil's in the details. This looks lovely but (don't you always hate that there's a but?) The figurehead is a little too small. Take a look at Druxey's work, which looks like his scale is spot on. Also look at the sharp close up. We've confirmed from multiple sources, including that Seattle view, that Athene is 7 1/2' tall. Courtesy of Rob, we now have very precise measurements for the relationship of all the elements in her Bow. At her correct height, Athene's crown is 2' from the tip of the Naval Hood and her head is just above the Hood. Her right hand is 18" from the tip too. Speaking of which, you're copying Druxey's mistake in the position of her upper arm. The item just above is not cloth, it's actually the severed wrist and hand holding the flowing drapery behind it. The arm should blend into that wrist, not be just below as it's drawn now.
  8. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, That's lovely. Now add a thin parallel line to that single line and you'll be very close to the original.
  9. ClipperFan
    Druxey, See how she now looks like she's carrying something in her right hand. Well that thing IS her right hand! What looks like it could be the end of a loaf of bread is actually the inside of her right wrist in the photo. Draw her upper forearm from the angle of her wrist and her right arm naturally bends back from there.
  10. ClipperFan
    Druxey, Take a close look at the gold necklace at the nape of Athene's neck. Just above you'll see what remains of her right hand, the small oval on right is the inside of her wrist, her thumb is inside the fabric and her upper hand grips the top. Meanwhile if you look to the right side of that necklace, you'll see another oval with a dark spot in the center. That's her shoulder and a small section of her upper right arm. Following her contours, you can project her right arm out, slightly downwards, then her upper forearm will reach back up and slightly inwards to connect with her wrist.
  11. ClipperFan
    The latest images from Michael Mjelde. These are close ups of "Glory of the Seas" at San Francisco dock 1877. For some odd reason, although I can get them right side up on my phone, they won't orient correctly when I upload them. My apologies. I figured upside down or not, you guys would all appreciate these higher definition images. Vladimir, if you look carefully at the carved arch on her Cutwater you'll see what I meant by the curve mirrors that of the lower one on the upper Naval Hood. I'm going to print these out and then try to merge them into a continuous single image, unless somebody beats me to it.
  12. ClipperFan
    Druxey, Nice work on Athene. One correction you want to make. If you look carefully you can see the central iron armature of her right arm where it broke off. It's pointed down more than your recreation does. Than you actually captured her right hand which is the oblong artifact up next to her small bun. Reposition her right forearm to connect to her hand and erase the back line at the right end of her hand. Very nice overall, you definitely captured her graceful pose and lovely features, which isn't easy to do.
  13. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, Regarding your attempts to recreate Glory's Cutwater flower carvings, there's a continual double stem that leads in a curving line all the way to the end. There's no break. It's the thinnest section but it's definitely there. The problem is that it's damnably difficult to see. Also it looks like the lower carved arch drops down along the outer edge and towards the end follows the curve of the lower Naval Hood arch.
  14. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, Excellent work! That's exactly what I see too.
  15. ClipperFan
    My apologies then. It must have been the way reproductions were made. I forgot that some were taken from books that were quite difficult to get flat in order to reproduce them.
  16. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, Beautiful work on these lovely ribbon scrolls. Some observations on the ornamental moldings of the Naval Hood . While the two lower moldings of the Main Rail continue on to complete the upper moldings of the Naval Hood, there are three thinner moldings that comprise the edge of the lower Hood arch. All three terminate at the tip, while the top two actually continue to the opposite side. The lower moldings aren't even at the Bow where they meet the Hull, they actually stagger inwards, as they edge the joint which is at an angle to match the curve of the prow. There's a hawse line running from the notch in the Cap Rail outward, running over the engraved "E" in "Seas" perfectly outlines this junction.
  17. ClipperFan
    Rob, Vladimir. Druxey, et all It looks like there were more than one image taken of "Glory of the Seas" on the Ways in 1869. I noticed that the position of the flagstaff with starry flag at her Bowsprit changes angles in various pictures, as does the angle of inclination of her Bowsprit Cap and Bowsprit too. The most noticeable difference is between the 1st and 2nd scene. It's hard to tell, since the middle pic has the Flag partially cut off but the flagstaff is verticle in this scene, while it's angled slightly backwards in the top one. Meanwhile in the third, bottom scene, the dolphin striker, which we referred to as being a reliable source as a plumb line actually angles outward slightly. I just thought others would appreciate these subtle differences.
  18. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, I get it with the driving yourself nuts comment. Imagine doing this in your spare time since 2009.... You sort of end up wondering if you're becoming obsessive-compulsive! Back to our project, which really feels like we're getting so close. We're constantly trying to evaluate 3D and calculate 2D dimensions from them. I think everyone is becoming very familiar with how an observation point has a substantial impact on how an object appears from different perspectives. When I attempted to calculate the Stern's height from the close up of Glory's 1869 fitting out photo, I forgot to account for the fact that this was taken from below the Ship's horizon. That likely means the Stern would be a little higher. It's like if you saw a man from atop a small hill, he would look a little smaller than if you saw him on level ground. Meanwhile looking at the Stern from the Alaskan towing scene, there's a definite sheer heading towards the Bow, which looks like it's more than a mere foot and a half. As for determining sheer itself, where Glory is still fairly new, look at her 1877 San Francisco dock image. Again her Stern looks like it's higher than a foot or so above the level of the Main Shrouds. So the work continues....
  19. ClipperFan
    Rob & Vladimir, The lowered Stern now looks a little too low now. I agree with Vladimir that it's not as elegant as before. Maybe the lower view of Glory's stern foreshortened her Stern height a little. Rob can you double check my calculations? I estimated about a 4' difference between her Stern and Bow from looking at the 1877 SF dock photo. That would put her Stern at 21' instead of 19 1/2'. It would also make the difference between her lowest point of 18' and even 3' difference instead of 1 1/2'. I hate to drive Vladimir nuts but this might look better.
  20. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, In our continuing search to realize "Glory of the Seas" as she was initially built, we're all collaborating as best we can to accomplish our mutual goal. Rob can either verify or revise my rough estimate on the Stern's height. From my measurement, she appears to be 19 1/2' at her Taffrail. We're fairly certain she's also 25' at her Bow. Using the published 7' sheer from Duncan MacLean, that puts her lowest area, midway of her Main Shrouds at 18'. Counting strakes at her Starboard Docking Port, I got 10 from waterline to base, 4 on the side and 7 to lower Main Rail Molding, with each strake being 6 1/2" it comes to 12' adding 6 1/2' Bulwark brings that dimension to 18 1/2'. We haven't nailed down the exact location but my estimate is somewhat midway between Main Mast and Foremast Shrouds being closer to the Shrouds. Using these dimensions, run a parabolic curve hitting these points. From her impressive 1877 San Francisco docking view, it looks like the most dramatic rise occurs at her Quarter Deck Cap Rail forward. Depth below waterline is a consistent 22'. Her prow is a graceful curve from her Cutwater through her lower Bobstay then it's a almost a straight line at a negative 8 1/2 degrees from verticle, with what appears to be a 1/4 circle at the Stem bottom where it joins the Keel.
  21. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, Remember I've been saying McKay's Sterns all had low overhang? Take a direct line up from the shadow of the rudder joint below. Now look at how little of Glory's Stern projects beyond her rudder. This view actually highlights that fact more than some others do. What's challenging with this image is the fact that sunlight washes out specific details we're able to see in other views. In this image it does appear like her Monkey Rail is verticle but if you look very closely it does project slightly outward. The lovely gold carvings are so shimmery it conceals the character of her Main Rail, so it's hard to tell that it's not rounded. Good catch with the yellow line, although I think it would be a parallel line following around her Stern. This view also shows that Glory's Stern Post is a direct line right up to her Stern planks, there's no significant cut out like your plan indicates. There does appear to be a small pintle device at the very top of the rudder, which is to be expected. Finally, if our premise that Glory's bulwarks are 6 1/2' tall is accurate, it would mean that her Stern is about 19 1/2' above her waterline, putting her Stern 5 1/2' lower than her Bow and just about 1 1/2 higher than the lowest level of her sheer of 18' at the midline of her Main Shrouds. Of course until we can definitely prove her Bulwarks are 6 1/2' this is still somewhat speculation.
  22. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, as the old phrase goes "the Devil's in the details".... beautiful workmanship on your Cutty Sark model. I especially appreciate the gold embellishments.
  23. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, you get the picture! Thanks for the compliment too. What's fascinating is looking at your revised Stern when it's smaller, it looks very similar to your older all round one. I believe when you incorporate these latest subtle changes, it will result in even more dramatic impact.
  24. ClipperFan
    Rob and Vladimir, This is the subtlety that my artist's eye sees. From top down the Wheelhouse and Stern House both aren't purely verticle, there's an ever so slight cant inward, which I suspect is true of all structures. The turned rail on the Stern House definitely cants inward slightly. The picture of the Cabin Boy standing on the roof clearly shows it. The Stern Rail that surrounds it on turned stanchions is verticle on her sides but cants just slightly outwards around her curved Stern, as does her Monkey Rail below. The Main Rail is straight but due to the double moldings and thin shelf which surrounds the entire Ship, appears to be indented, as illustrated here. Then there's a small section just below which only appears to be on the round portion of Glory's Stern which is almost straight but does seem to have a slight bow outwards, after that there's a drop to the Rudder Post which isn't straight but bows inwards slightly. It's all very subdued but it's definitely visible.
  25. ClipperFan
    Vladimir, this is definitely much closer. Starting from the Stern Rail, notice how the turned stanchions tilt slightly outwards. They're also much thinner. They appear to be smaller versions of the full scale ones on her large Stern House. The Monkey Rail looks perfect now as does the Main Rail below. If you look closely, you'll see that besides the two moldings that wrap around the entire ship, there are also two small, thin flat shelves that do the same thing. One can be seen just above and the other mirrors it just below the double moldings. These features are what appears to make the Main Rail look like it's almost indented. The small bulge in your illustration is more subtle on Glory and blends into the curving section below. Upon closer observation of her Stern in the towing scene what appeared at first to be a curve outwards now looks more like it's actually a slight gradual arched curve inwards where it meets the rudder. Lay a ruler on the image you'll see what I mean. What you have now is much closer to the photos now.

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