ClipperFan
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Greg, since "GLORY of the SEAS" had a published keel of 240' a length between perpendiculars of 250' and from Stern Taffrail to Bow Knightheads an overall length of 265' then add in a Bowsprit of 24' outboard & combined 31' additional inner & outer Jib for an additional 55' she was a huge vessel. "Medium Clipper" refers to her classification as to her Hull's potential speed in the water mainly related to the underwater pitch at "Half Hull". In Glory's case she was the flattest of any of McKay's Clippers with a Half Hull of a mere 8 & 1/2". Compare that to McKay's first Extreme Clipper "Staghound" which had a Half Hull of 40". In fact some maritime authors I've read say McKay's first Clipper was his only "Extreme" one. His second effort, the record shattering Extreme Clipper "Flying Cloud" had a flatter Hull, with a Half Hull of 30". Gradually McKay kept making his Half Hulls flatter as he searched for the ultimate balance between swift underwater Hulls and increased carrying capacity. So I guess Clippers were categorized three ways: Extreme Clipper, Clipper and lastly Medium Clipper. Of course a lot of this is subjective but there never was a classification of "Large Clipper" though McKay built some of the largest in the world. What I see in the brilliance of McKay's last "Medium Clipper" was he created a magnificent vessel with sharp very fine Clipper Hull entrances and exits while having very substantial carrying capacity too.- 3,560 replies
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Rob, you do that while I go and prepare some popcorn. This is more exciting than going to a movie!
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Rob, magnificent! Each time you share your progress, I get more and more blown away with how accurate to scale this miniature vessel is to Donald McKay's "GLORY of the SEAS"! I hope "theauthorsdaughter" or even Michael Mjelde himself is looking in on your jaw dropping progress. This will be unmistakable as any other Clipper Ship. Wow.... just wow.
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Rob, I honestly believe by the time this project of yours is done, there will be 3 people who will know this magnificent vessel inside & out, better than any other people on the planet! By the way, am I correct in guessing that those neat oval ports are called mooring hausers? Do you think they might have been brass lined originally? They appear to have some metallic lining to them.
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Actually in the pamphlet, these images are in reverse order, 1869 Glory on the Ways is Plate XV and her Fitting Out scene is Plate XVI. I found my copy on ebay years ago. The light cardboard cover is almost impossible to find intact as it's quite fragile after 62 years....
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Rob, the 1877 photo is probably the finest image of this beauty "GLORY of the SEAS." The deck structures as revised will make quite an intricately detailed vessel as well. I particularly like the little walkway bridge that goes between 2 lifeboats from the rear Carriage House to the new Boy cabin. It will be a fun build to incorporate all those changes. Doubtless, the very finest modification is the extension of the originally small Wheel House to enclose the Helmsman (which I'm sure was greatly appreciated by those at the Wheel). However, if Vladimir prefers to model Glory as originally launched, I found another, possibly more defined image of Glory fitting out in Boston in 1869. Actually, there are a least 5 freeing ports that I can count, plus 4 oval ports visible in this print. It's from a 1959 American Neptune Pictorial Supplement I, published by American Neptune, Salem, Mass.
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Rob, Vladimir, the best way I can describe this fascinating feature is to think of a sharp crease in dress pants. It's there but hardly noticeable too. It's tough to scale it but I will give it the old "College try." For Rob 1:96 scale, it's easier to calculate, since (1" = 8'), 1/8th" = 1'. So 3&1/2' = 3/8ths" + 1/16" so 3/8ths = 6/16ths + 1/16th" so 7/16ths" = 3&1/2' exactly. For Vladimir, 1:72 (1" = 6'). So 1/2" = 3', that's easy. Here's where it gets more interesting, math wise. Half of 1/2", 1/4" = 1 & 1/2' so 1/16" = 1/2 of 1 & 1/2' or 3/4ths of a foot, just a bit more than 1/2' needed to be precisely accurate. 1/32" translates to 3/8ths of 1'. Now just shy of the 1/2" desired! There's a scale calculator that I've seen before. It's probably easier to just reference that instead. Besides which, Vladimir might be more used to the metric scale too.
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Rob, Vladimir, I went back a few pages and found more references to the shadow line that we've now confidently identified as the horizontal post timber. It's barely noticeable unless you know what to look for. In the sad scene where Glory is beached at Endolyne, take a close look at her Stern and again, below the sheerline is that line shadow which now can be seen to extend beyond just the Stern to her rear quarter as well. In fact, it's actually more visible on her rear quarter. Vladimir's uncanny ability to spot this same feature just by cast shadows confirms this very hard to catch feature has been there since the day Glory was launched. The 1869 Fitting Out scene also shows that, as I first suspected, while the wrought Iron chain plates do mount onto a 2nd shelf, for lack of the proper nautical term, they do indeed then bend below that device and mount directly to the Hull itself. Since Glory's verticle Timbers were all evenly spaced 28" center to center, it makes sense that there would be a need for a consistent horizontal structure to mount all of these critical chain plates to. Again, while it's just a thin line in McKay's Twin Packet sketch, if you count 5 lines down from the top of the Stern, there it is and it does stretch clear across the entire Hull and appears to terminate at the section which probably would be the Naval Hood on these actual vessels. For some odd reason, McKay jealously guarded this section of his Bow. It was a very successful tactic too, as practically none of our present day lines or models of McKay's magnificent Clippers accurately incorporate Naval Hoods or Cutwaters. They just show the bare Stem. That includes "Flying Cloud" "Sovereign of the Seas" and "Flying Fish." Even "Lightning" sketched by McKay himself oddly leaves this entire Bow area blank! It's a "pet peeve" of mine which I intend to set the record straight one day. Enough of my rant on sloppy, inaccurate models and plans. Back to "GLORY of the SEAS" again, looking carefully at the relation of this shadow to her Main rail height just above, now knowing for a fact that the outer height of that main rail bulwark is exactly 4', including all moldings, the post timber does look slightly shallower, which leads me to believe it's 3'6" below, which not coincidentally aligns perfectly with the bottom of the Naval Hood, as Rob previously calculated. I'm not saying anyone has to incorporate this fascinating detail in their model but if they could it would be just one more tribute to the very complicated construction technique of Donald McKay's Shipyard.
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Rob, you mentioned earlier how you weren't fully satisfied with how your Stern was turning out. From the last view shown here, I would say you're doing a damn good job! I only brought up the post timber issue in order to be of assistance if you felt something was missing, not to be critical or cause concerns. As I've said confidently before, your "GLORY of the SEAS" is shaping up to be the best 1:96 scale replica ever created. I'm confident Vladimir will follow suit with his 1:72nd scale version too!
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Rob, now THIS is a genuine CLIPPER SHIP worthy of the royal name "GLORY of the SEAS!" WOW!!! I am simply blown away by these glorious images. Excellent work!!!!
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Rob, sadly, this is actually the best model I've seen on the Internet too. Perhaps there just wasn't sufficient access to images of "GLORY of the SEAS" as Michael Mjelde so generously shared with us. From the standpoint of craftsmanship, this is a beautiful & impressive creation. She's just in no way accurate to the genuine, lovely hullform of McKay's last Clipper. Now you see why I say without exaggeration that you & Vladimir are creating the most exhaustively accurate miniature of this marvelous ship ever done!
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Rob, I couldn't remember the name of those iron bars. Chain plates is exactly right. My apologies for the confusion. Still, when I do my plans of "GLORY of the SEAS" I will incorporate this line as it is historically shown on the Twin Packets, which illustration is credited to McKay himself. It makes sense that it also would align with the base of the Naval Hood too, though as Vladimir first discovered, it's visible along the rear Starboard Quarter in her 1869 Fitting Out scene.
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Rob, as my earlier post mentioned, I was incorrect about the mounting of the iron bars, they actually mount to another protruding shelf. Bumpkins are clearly visible in Glory's fitting out scene. It would be not surprise that these devices would be cut off. It's really such a damn shame how shabbily poor old Glory was treated in her later years. If they had just maintained her yellow metal cladding, she most likely would have been proudly resting in company with "Old Ironsides" today....
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Rob, when I went to share this image of Glory's Hull it came as a surprise that the iron bars I was referring to actually don't mount directly into the Hull but into another projecting mounting board, which completely demolishes what I was thinking. My turn to eat some humble crow. Yum!
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Rob, from this illustration, it looks like the horizontal "post timber" is the structural member I'm referring to. If, as McKay's other illustration shows, this feature covers the entire Hull, it would be a logical mounting point for the iron bars which anchor all Shrouds and back stays which are crucial in supporting all three of Glory's massive masts.
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Vladimir, if you're going to incorporate this fascinating ridge, for lack of a better term, I recommend it be 3'6" drop below the sheerline. Your illustration of this feature, respectfully was too close to the sheerline, at 1:72nd (1"=6') this drop would be appx 1/2"=3' & maybe 1/16th" which translates to 3/8ths'. Not precisely 1/2' but I'm doing this in my head. 😉 That would exactly mirror the Naval Hoods. I have nothing more to go on, but it makes sense that this somehow could be the mounting point for all of the wrought iron that anchors all three shrouds. It only becomes more visibly noticeable as the fullness of Glory's hull transitions to her rear flank and Stern. What is most noticeable in the beautifully clear photo Mike sent us, is this is the directional default where her curvilinear Stern drops gracefully to become the sharp exit which is so beautifully noticeable in the this Stern scene.
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Rob, in no way did I mean to denigrate the unbelievably accurate model you are constructing. You mentioned being a little dissatisfied with your Stern (which I think is just beautiful) so I thought you might benefit from knowing about this fascinating feature of Glory's construction.
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Rob, it looks like a linear shadow. It's below the sheerline. What cinches that it's a structural feature, for me at least, is that when you look at the outer edge of the Stern, there's a noticeable change in profile at that exact line. If you re-examine McKay's twin Packets, count down 5 lines at the Stern, there's no molding but the line goes clear across the entire Hull. It appears to be about a 3'6 " drop below the double molded sheerline, which would align it perfectly with the lower Naval Hood molding. Vladimir saw it too. Somehow he even caught it in the 1869 fitting out scene. It's definitely there and may help account for the complex geometrics in creating such a graceful Stern.
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Rob, while I appreciate the joke, in fact the particular line I'm referring to has no molding at all. It's just a line that Vladimir & I identified a while ago. Below the sheerline molding, it's visible if you look closely enough.
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Rob, I appreciate your humility in altering your choice of painting the waterways blue. I think later on when all additional deck structures and details are added in, this will make a lovely, distinctive contrast.
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Rob, while your Stern is probably the most accurate ever realized in a Glory model yet, it is lacking one distinctive component of the real ship. Look closely below the sheerline and you'll see another more subtle line. I now believe this is a 3'6" drop, coinciding with the lower Naval Hood molding. That would mean that while it isn't so clearly distinguishable across her entire Hull it's still there. If you go back to McKay's illustration of his Twin Packets "Star of Empire & Chariot of Fame" that same thin line is there too. I surmise that perhaps this might be a mounting line for all of the wrought Iron shrouds as well.
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Rob, that is spot on! You simply have to share these with Michael Mjelde. I have a feeling he will be blown away! I completely agree with Vladimir's expression, as he put it succinctly and perfectly "My God, it's her!"
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gak1965 thanks for sharing something new with me. I never read the book you mentioned. It comes as a complete surprise that McKay originally considered painting "Flying Fish" green. Perhaps that's why Duncan MacLean made the wry observation that like Clergy, Clippers always come in Black. As for the Cutwater, that's a nautical device that always mounts on the Stem. Unfortunately, while this is an impressive kit which builds into a beautiful model, I believe the Bow is inaccurate. A figurehead tacked on with nothing to support it would be lost with the first wave. Better to have it incorporated into the end of the Cutwater, which is how Buttersworth has depicted her.
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Rob, the very fact that your Hull form, even incomplete bears such an amazingly close resemblance to various contemporary photos of "GLORY of the SEAS" is all the proof we need to validate that the lines our combined group arrived at are accurate. I am thrilled to observe you and Vlad's inspiring progress.
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