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ClipperFan

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  1. ClipperFan
    Rob, her left lower leg and part of her heel appear to be missing in this photo. I've learned from images like this and her Salmon packing label that there was indeed an open area behind her entire back down almost to her exposed buttocks, heightening the raciness of her overall appearance. Look closely at the crew member in the picture of Glory where there is a grouping of men around her Bow. He has his arm behind her back. Something that would be impossible unless her toga is clear from her back. By the way, I laid a compass over this silhouette too. Guess what result I got for the Naval Hood? Another 20 degree reading.
  2. ClipperFan
    Rob, my intent wasn't to be defensive but to clarify how difficult the evolution process has been to get everything right. I like your Figurehead guideline though. It gives an area in which to fill out the 90" form of her Goddess figurehead. I'm still not sure I agree with the 22.30 to 23 degree steeve (angle of inclination) of Glory's Bowsprit. It makes more sense that it's 20.60 degrees, since it aligns exactly with a 4" rise to 1' run. The closest vessel in tonnage, although being launched 16 years earlier is the Clipper "Sovereign of the Seas" whose Bowsprit steeve is published precisely as 4" to the foot. Another reason I struggle with higher angles, is the fact that besides his first Extreme Clipper "Staghound" which had as steeve of 4 1/2" to 1', to arrive at the higher steves means having to use fractions of inches, which none of McKay's vessels were described as ever having done. What would be an interesting exercise to do would be to sketch the Bowsprit at both angles and see which more closely matches photos. Incidentally, I recently managed to buy 'The Outlook' March 23rd, 1912 which has an article "Fish, Fur and Forest, and a Few Other Things' by WD Hurlbert which has the silhouette of "Glory of the Seas" at the head of the article. If there's a better image in the magazine, I'll share it.
  3. ClipperFan
    Snug Harbor Johnny, David MacGregor has an excellent sail plan in his publication "British & American Clipper Ships. Cyril Hume created probably the finest scale miniature of this fine Aberdeen Clipper. One of the best images of her Spartan Figurehead of Leonidas is a front scene where she's loading lumber thru Bow ports. Unfortunately she's painted white instead of her distinctive Aberdeen Green.
  4. ClipperFan
    Rob, it's a tricky challenge to get Athene in proportion to Glory's other elements. Of course, in my own defense, this sketch was done in Summer 2004, well before I learned off her dimensions being 90". Knowing that now helps us to calculate her Figurehead's relation to the inner Bobstay, and the 24' Bowsprit above her, which then should enable us to reconstruct her Naval Hood and Cutwater below.
  5. ClipperFan
    I found more images of previous research. The first silhouette is from an 1912 article discussing Glory's life as a floating Salmon processing factory. There's no way of knowing if she's sitting level or Bow down. It's helpful to see the relationship of her figurehead, naval hoods and the portion of her Cutwater that goes just below her Bobstay mounts. The close up of her Bow is the source of my sketch which is a reverse of that picture. The dimensions of the figurehead get close but she's too close to the Naval hood. The last sketch is probably one of my earliest. It's probably the most detailed effort to capture her intricate carvings. I'm sure Rob will be the first to notice her Bow is too aggressive and stretched out. Compared to more accurate images available now, it's very easy to see now.
  6. ClipperFan
    Sailor, If you have 3D CGI capabilities, my request is to please take on the challenge. I never learned those computer abilities but fully respect the results that can be accomplished with them.
  7. ClipperFan
    Lars Bruzelius' excellent online resource for Clipper & Packet Ships has a good number of Duncan MacLean's detailed descriptions of McKay's vessels. His first Extreme Clipper 'Staghound' is described as having a Bowsprit steeve of 4 1/2" to 1' 20.6 degrees. Every other Clipper Ship description I could find which listed Bowsprit steeve after that was no higher than 4" to 1' 18.4 degrees. The closest vessel to dimensions of 'Glory of the Seas' where I could find the exact Bowsprit inclination was the 'Sovereign of the Seas' with a steeve of 4" to 1'. Nowhere did I find a description of a McKay Ship with Bowsprit Steeve higher than 4.5" to 1' and that's his initial Extreme Clipper Staghound. To have a 22.3 degree angle would require a Bowsprit steeve of 4.96" to 1' and to accomplish 23 degrees requires a steeve of 5.1" to 1', neither of which I read in any description of McKay's vessels. Somehow I was under the impression that 'Glory's' Bowsprit steeve was 3' to 8' 20.6 degrees, probably because to me it made logical sense to follow McKay's own progression.
  8. ClipperFan
    Rob, Michael Mjelde just shared these 4 amazingly sharp images of Glory at San Pedro 1907. He again reminded me to make sure we please credit him as the source of these images which I assured him we would. These are a set of enlargements done in the 80s by a professional developer made from Mike's original contact print from which he made 5x7 negatives. He actually has 2 sets of these prints. Mike said he describes the image in a current sequel being reviewed by a potential publisher.
  9. ClipperFan
    Rob, thanks for the great tip! You would think by now our good friends at Abe Books would be sending us some great discounts!
  10. ClipperFan
    Rob, if the correct angle is 22.5. 23 or 20 degrees doesn't matter to me. I just want to be sure we're accurate. You bring up a good point though, about being unable to determine the vessel's orientation to the building in the 1911 shot. I didn't take that into consideration. To place the compass on the 1907 shot, I measured the exact distance from 3 reference points on the compass from the bottom of the page and figured that gave me a 90 degree angle. If that approach is flawed, can you measure the angle you get from the 1907 close up? Also, I admit to being confused about the site line you used for the midshipmen reading which isn't parallel with the keel line, it's more of a perspective line. How is that angle determined? Michael referred me back to Glory's 1869 fitting out photo at McKay's yard as a reference for her Bowsprit steeve. I still think that's a tough one. That viewpoint is much closer to the Stern than the Bow and that alone shifts the angles of everything.
  11. ClipperFan
    Rob, Michael Mjelde told me that his Bowsprit reading of 22 degrees 30 seconds was taken from Glory's 1869 fitting out image, not the 1907 one. Using a compass on both the 1907 San Pedro pic and the extreme close up of her Naval Hood from 1911, I get 20 degrees exactly in both images. I'm going to run these figures by Mike to get his response.
  12. ClipperFan
    Rob, I found the full size vessel that you made a miniature of: 1906 Truscott Steam Launch "Puffin" and she's an interesting rarity indeed.
  13. ClipperFan
    Rob, I was impressed to read that you did a miniature of the Steam Sloop "Puffin". if there's any pictures, I'd love to see them. By the way, I calculated that if you use 1/16" = 3', it turns out to be 48' per inch which equals exactly 240' at 5" which is the precise dimension of Glory's keel. Her overall length of 265' Taffrail to Knightheads is 5.59". Coincidently the smaller sketch I recently did of Glory is 6 1/8" at her Keel, 6 7/8" Taffrail to Knightheads, just slightly larger than the scale you're looking at.
  14. ClipperFan
    Rob, at 1:700 scale your models would be a little over 4". Probably not big enough to view decent details. A 1:200 scale at 265' comes in at 15.9" which would allow for better observation of Glory's evolution over her long lifetime.
  15. ClipperFan
    Duncan MacFarlane "CSS Nashville Capturing and Burning 'Harvey Birch' 1864" is probably one of the most famous oil paintings of the horrific destruction of our American Merchantman during the Civil War. To my knowledge the US never did recover the hard earned preeminence they established before that conflagration. Such a loss...
  16. ClipperFan
    Rob, Thanks for sharing these beautiful images of the lovely figurehead of the Clipper 'America.' When I see the sole vestiges of USA's once mighty fleet of magnificent Clippers it literally makes me sad. True, most of these impressive "Greyhounds of the Sea" were lost in the depths or burned due to freak accidents but there were a few which survived mainly intact into the 20s and even the 30s. Vessels like "Dashing Wave" the hardy Downeaster "Benj. F Packard" and McKay's last ever Clipper the magnificentn"Glory of the Seas" all gave long lived service, proving the incredible durability of their Builder's craft. Yet where are they today? All gone, except a few surviving Figureheads.... Such a loss to America's Merchant Maritime History.
  17. ClipperFan
    Rob, In his multiple descriptions of various Packet and Clipper Ships, Duncan McLean, writer for the Boston Daily Atlas described that it was a popular fashion style to monochromatically paint most ship's Figureheads white. I have also read where occasionally there would be gold and sometimes blue trim applied to highlight folds of garments. In the published image of Glory's Figurehead of the children's book there are definitely two very thin parallel lines that grace the bottom of her toga. These lines can be seen all along the many graceful folds which drape behind her right arm. She's also wearing an impressive necklace and two arm bands which also have two complementing thin lines on the ends. However unless there's new information uncovering original paint schemes, this falls in the realm of pure speculation on my part.
  18. ClipperFan
    Hi Rob, In his latest email to me, Michael specifically asked me to share this information with the group, so I am quoting him exactly: "For your information Ron Haug has been a shipwright since he began his apprenticeship in 1952 when he was 15 years old. We first started corresponding in 1995 when we were trying to determine the accuracy of the purported builder's model of Glory at Mariner's Museum. We concluded that it it is indeed the builder's model, it was changed 'drastically' on the mold loft floor. He is likewise probably the 'expert' regarding Benj. F Packard. Therefore I trust his opinion. Please share this information with the group." This is verbatim what Michael Mjelde wrote to me. (If anyone knows how to italicize words, Mike used italics for the vessels "Glory" and "Benj. F Packard." Then it would be precisely how he wrote it).
  19. ClipperFan
    Rob, you're right. I multiplied incorrectly. I might have caught it too if I referenced the distance in the photo too. The front of the head on the Figurehead is about Center of the span above between two bands, that's about 18" not over 5'.
  20. ClipperFan
    Rob, I think I follow you on the distance of the center of the Foremast to the Forecastle of the Main Deck being the same as the Height up to her Fore Top. Staghound's Foremast was described as being 50' from the Knightheads. Your description of the Deckhouse width being 4x distance from Fore to Main Mast must have somehow been misstated. Staghound's Main was 67' from her Fore. 4x that would be 268' wide which makes no sense as these vessels were about 40' Beam. You must be referring to some other dimension unless McKay's figured out how to install a "Tardis" on his Clipper Ships!
  21. ClipperFan
    Rob, that's a good catch to notice the relationship of Glory's Figurehead to Inner Bobstay. That's definitely not a coincidence. Mike confirmed that Truss Bands are 3' apart on Masts and Bowsprits as a Ship Builder's standard practice. As the Inner Bobstay is below band #6, that's about 18 1/2' outboard. Counting back, the tip of her Naval Hoods are right below band #3, 12' from the inner Bobstay. Now we know the head of Glory's Figurehead is about 5 1/2 feet from the tip of the Naval Hood and projects 15' outward from where her Prow meets the water.
  22. ClipperFan
  23. ClipperFan
    Rob, in the 1907 pic, if you look closely at the base of Glory's prow where she meets the water, there's a shadow which I believe is the pier behind her. The actual prow of the Ship herself is just slightly inclined in front of that shadow. In addition it looks like the entire waterline of the photo itself has an ever so slight tilt upwards. Laying a compass with true verticle at the base of the image should verify this, if I'm right. Meanwhile, Appendix 1 of Mike's 1st book lists Glory's Bowsprit as 24' outboard with 34" diameter. From the latest close up of that section, I count 7 metal hoops around the Bowsprit with 1 additional which encircles both Jibboom and Bowsprit. Assigning 3' distance between each band gives us 21'. That seems to work, since there's a little distance to the Bowsprit Cap and slightly less before this spar enters her Hull. I also noticed that a section of Jibboom narrows just a little as it squares out to meet the Hull too. I wouldn't be too concerned about messing up her Figurehead. If you let me, I can help with that. I've been perfecting my obsession with her graceful aspect for years. It's been a pleasant surprise to see that my efforts have gotten pretty close, even without benefit of either 1907 or 1911 images. For instance, seeing how her hand is much higher up by her tied hair bun clears up a problem I've had getting the position of her absent right arm correct. It's quite difficult to make out but her long flowing scarf actually makes a loop behind her body. Another beautiful trait I've noticed in Glory's interface between her Figurehead and carved Cutwater is an impression of a reverse "S" curve. Observe the outline of her Figurehead. She actually stretches out in a very graceful arch which reversely echoes the Cutwater below her. To make it easier to see some of these details I darkened the latest image a couple times. Finally, her gown and scarf appear to have had light gold trim, which would highlight the graceful folds better. In the 1911 image, she has dark hair. It makes me wonder if she was painted naturally, similar to the way the Donald McKay and Great Republic's figurehead were.
  24. ClipperFan
    Hi Rob, trying to accurately nail down Glory's true form is clearly an exercise in patience, for sure. You're certainly getting closer. I sense our best approach is to carefully measure the distance of the Bow from her Figurehead in the 1907 San Pedro scene. Knowing her Figurehead is 90" we should be able to get very close to her actual dimensions. I suggest using a verticle line up from where her prow meets the water and measure horizontally out to where her Figurehead rests. For example, her Bowsprit length is published, we know she's sheathed with yellow metal up to 22' to her waterline. As we carefully piece together these related components, gradually a more accurate overall vessel will emerge. Meanwhile, our key resource Michael Mjelde has just sent me another great image. It's a close up starboard view of her Figurehead, Naval Hood and Cut Water in 1911, one of a series of articles he wrote in the 90s about the conversion of Glory to the fishing industry. Mike assures me that there are a few rare pics of Glory in these series of articles. To show how close my own efforts have come, I attached a pen & ink sketch done a few years ago of this identical scene. It was done without benefit of having seen the 1911 pic.
  25. ClipperFan
    To support his position that there were only two, not three skylights on the deck of the Rear House, Mike directed me to this 1915 image of crew dancing on deck on page 235 of his first book. More evidence of only two skylights can be seen from this picture of Glory beached at Endymion. Look closely at both pictures, the skylights consist of two identical structures. Basically rectangles surmounted by trapezoidal structures.

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