tmj

Hello Allan! The below photo was taken within Victory's bilge. These are the things that I am referring to as 'doublers'. You'll have to pardon my blurbage until I learn the true nomenclature of many unfamiliar parts. It's impossible to see in the photo of my model, but 'my' doublers are also tapered just as the ones shown in this photo. 🙂

I also need to get some ballast glued into the bilge area, on the outside of my formers/ribs. I'm getting tired of looking at my bad joinery taking place there. Those big, ugly gaps are driving me nuts!

I've tarred/waterproofed things inside of the bilge section of my pump locker, added some of the 'doublers' to the outer tops of my bilge stanchions, and planked the interior of my hull up to the next higher level gun deck. I'm not sure if the pump housings were actually waterproofed on the real ship, but when I don my engineers cap, I see this as being an absolute necessity be it factual, or not. I also like the look of the doublers atop those stanchions so I will now be adding them to both sides of 'all' of the bilge stanchions. It adds a really nice realistic effect. I'll then need to file out the gun ports, on the lowest level gun deck, and also add some very thin headers, footers and jams inside of the gun port openings. I think that I will use something like padauk wood, bloodwood, or some sort of wood that has a reddish tint to it for the interior framing of the gun ports. I'm trying to avoid using any paint. I'm trying to use wood that naturally simulates the ships colors without using any paint. So far, so good on the wood colors. I'm also still debating on whether or not I should simulate nails and fasteners for the interior planking of the hull walls within the areas of my gun decks. What do 'you' folks think? Should I nail those planks, or just leave them clean looking and free of fasteners?

Thank you, Mr., Coyle!

So sorry, Mark! It's been so long since I was last here, I didn't realize that I was posting this in the wrong place... until you mentioned it and I just now looked!!! Is there any way that you, as a moderator, can move all of my posts, for this build, to the proper build log location? I have a few posts here and I don't know how to do that.

One more note, for those with really accurate eyes. The arch of my lowest gun deck is not yet set. It is not glued in place. The true 'curve', or arch will finally be set only after I build the second story of my pump house and also fabricate the wooden stanchions that will support that lowest level gun deck. I'll be fabricating all of the scale stanchions myself. I cannot purchase any pre-made stanchions of proper geometry, nor proper scale. Gonna have to make 'em myself! That lowest gun deck will ultimately have a proper arch and look totally correct after all is said and done!

Please disregard my bilge stanchions resting upon bilge planking rather than frames. When I started this build, I had no intention of going for true scale or becoming a 'rivet-counter'. I just wanted to build a model that looked good. That was 'then' and 'this' is now. The true scale thing was an afterthought and certain damages had already been done. All I can do now is to try and work my way through those initial mistakes and try not to make any more gross errors from this point forward. Fingers are crossed!

Making progress. I have the knee braces in place, below the orlop deck, but still need to fabricate the iron braces to hold those knee braces true. I'll be using copper for those iron braces. Copper will make for a great artistic contrast against the wood and will also be far more visible than black iron would be. I also need to add some walnut 'doublers' to the top of the bilge stanchions, where those stanchions attach to the beams supporting the Orlop deck. I'll keep the walnut doublers 'natural' in order to produce a contrasting color against the stanchions. I like contrast. It will draw one's eyes to certain 'small' details, such as those tiny doublers and iron knee braces... fine details that would otherwise likely go unnoticed without extremely close examination. I've also purchased a perfect scale of media to place within the bilge along with my semi-scale barrels, etc. I'll add the bilge media and barrels later down the road, when it is the proper time. I'm now planking the inside of the hull working upwards, between the lowest gun deck up to the next level gun deck. I'm looking at photos of the actual HMS Victory, as she sits today, and seeing no real indications of nails and/or fasteners holding that interior planking to the frames. There must be a lot of paint, putty, etc. hiding those details from the eye. I'm debating on whether or not to show nails on the interior of my build. My decks are segmented and nailed via the 'rule of four'. Not sure how my model would look with nailed decks and smooth walls... "Hmm?"

Allan and Gary, This is "Really Great" stuff that the both of you are sharing with me! I've simply been looking at completed models, built by others, and going from 'that'. I'd have never known about this 'Pigs of Iron' ballast thing without you folks enlightening me! I'll now be losing the small 2mm-4mm gravel, for ballast stones, and replacing it with a coarse grain sand, or crushed rock for the bilge. My barrels will be a teeny bit large, @ 1:98 scale, which would equate to being about 6.125" larger, in diameter, than they should be at full scale, however. I should be able to get away with that minor discrepancy. I doubt that the slightly larger size of my scale barrels will be easily noticed inside the model. I'll also need to make some small woven baskets and shovels to add to the desired effect. Thanks for the photo, Gary. It gave me more inspiration and insight of needful things to display inside of the bilge!

Gary, this is the sort of stuff that I need to know! "Thank you!" Do you happen to have any visual examples of 'pigs' of iron? I'd love to see an example of such!!

After a three-year Hiatus... I'm now back to this build. The photos that follow are of my current build progress. Be forewarned that any progress I make, from this point forward, might be a bit slow in coming. I'm pushing 63 years old and still working full time designing and building industrial machines... and can only work on my hobbies during the weekends because I'm just simply too tuckered out, after work, to mess with anything during the work week. My first goal, on the continuation of this build, is to now start adding ballast stones to the bilge and build the depth of those stones up to a somewhat scale height that will also offer room for numerous scale barrels that will need to be stowed atop the ballast stones. I'll also need to use ballast stones and sand to artistically hide my bad 'joinery' of the ribbing where it 'should' contact the hull planking. This may take some time. I'll need to inject epoxy, spread it around and add gravel... without accidentally getting any epoxy on anything/anywhere that I don't want it. I'll need to do this one level/layer of ballast at a time until I get the bilge filled to the proper height with ballast stones. I also need to ensure that every level of ballast is securely glued down, and nothing moves, or falls out of the ship when she is turned on her sides to accommodate future building needs and processes. I'll then begin to populate the bilge area with needful items, tools, etc. that would typically be found in that lower area of the ship. I'll try to be as historically accurate as possible, when I can, but will also be using a bit of 'artistic license' in some of the things that I do for visual appeal, effect, and visual impact. If I cannot find the exact details that I seek, I'll put my engineering hat on and create something that I deem sound, doable, and proper be it right, or wrong! That's the best that I can do! Here I go again. The following photos show each end of the current state of my Corel HMS Victory 1:98 'bashing'. Updates will be posted as they occur.

One last question, pertaining to the 'flip side' of this cross section. Other than cannon balls in the bins... is there anything else, cannon ball or weapons related, that should also be displayed on 'this' side of my build?

Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this topic. I now have an idea as to what items I should place on these two different decks/platforms. Thar might even be a bilge rat, or few lurking around!

Thank you mtaylor. Pictured below is what I am calling the 'Orlop'. Please correct me if I am wrong. In addition. What is the proper name for those two 'bench' like shelves/decks that are located down in the bilge, below what I am calling the 'Orlop' deck? I've built them, via Longridge's book and photos of the real ship, and I don't even know what they are called! What would be stowed on 'those' two shelves/decks/benches?

Would there not be things like rope, lumber, etc. on that deck?

I like that! Where can I purchase some 1:98 scale 'Bilge-Rats"?

Exactly what fittings, furnishings and misc. stuff would typically be found on this lowest deck aboard the HMS Victory?

I'm cheating on 'my' limber boards. Just going for effect rather than scale.

It's a rather long YouTube video, showing some major aft deck discrepancies via the Pontos kit. If I can remember which video that was, I'll certainly post the link. As for my search... I think I finally found what I need. Gold Medal Models sells two separate PE kits for the 1:350 Tamiya WWII Missouri. $70 each, but if further research proves these kits to be as good as I believe they are, "I'm in!" FWIW... The inaccurate Pontos kit was 'not' for the WWII version of the Missouri. It was for the 1991 version. If I remember correctly, Pontos doesn't even sell a PE kit for the WWII version 1:350 battleship. If they do, I just wasn't interested in taking the chance.

LOL... "Welcome to my world!" I've also seen a few 'Pontos' videos where the PE was totally wrong, in certain areas. Kinda 'not' looking towards Pontos anymore.

I've been sitting on a Tamiya 1:350 USS Missouri kit for a very, very long time. It's the 1944 version, model #78008. It's time for me to get going on this model. I've already purchased what 'appears' to be an accurate wooden deck for this kit (Scaledecks.com), but I'm now really struggling to find a photo-etch 'up-set' that I feel confident in doing this particular model any real justice. There's a few PE kits out there, but none of them are listed as being a match for my 1944 era scheme, nor the #78008 Tamiya model number. Not sure if anything else that I'm finding will actually be close enough, or not. "Any suggestions as to where I can locate a good PE set that will prove to be a somewhat accurate/good match for this particular kit, reflecting the 1944 details?" Doesn't have to be perfect. Nobody would really know the difference if it was 100% accurate, or not. "I wouldn't even know!" I just want to make sure the PE kit will actually fit my model in a respectable manner. Good PE kits aren't exactly cheap, and I'd rather not waste money on something that won't work because I purchased a set that I simply thought 'might' work...???

Does anyone know of any video links/re-enactments that reveal how 18th century shipboard cannons would have been loaded, fired, re-loaded and fired again? I'd like to see all the actions, motions, and needful operations being performed, in real time, using such cannons.

I was thinking that such was the case, and your response supports that theory. "Oh well." It'll still make for a nice looking 'deco' piece when completed. I'll just 'not' name her. Thanks for your feedback!

I started bashing a Corel 1:98 Victory cross section a while back, but took a break. I'm now back to work on it and wondering about the historical accuracy of a couple of 'pseudo' decks/shelves located below the Orlop deck. The original model is quite lacking, as sold by Corel, and the Diagostini Model Space verson looks quite sexy (that's the visual reference that I followed), however. After purchasing a copy of Longridge's 'Anatomy of Nelson's Ships', and getting back to the build, I'm not seeing those two 'pseudo' decks depicted on either the side elevation, plan #1, nor the cross section on page 63. Did Victory actually have these two platforms, or are they just 'eye-candy', created by a model manufacturer, for 'looks' and to promote sales? I wish I was more into actual historical accuracy when I started this model, but I wasn't. Now it 'Is' what it is and I need to make the best of what I started... 🤔 *NOTE*: The Orlop deck, nor the lower pump house/shot locker are glued in place, yet. This is why the Orlop deck does not appear to be sitting proper at the hull. I have a lot of detail work to go before securing that deck in place....

Were pebbles, sand, or some other medium used to keep ballast stones from easily shifting position during heavy seas? There 'must' have been 'something' used. Surely folks didn't just pile up ballast stones in the bilge. Those loose stones would easily move around, during heavy seas, and likely turn an already bad weather event into something even worse by compromising the weight/balance of the ship...???