tmj

'Hancock' Stem and Stern Design 'Take Two'. "Am I getting closer, now?"

I ran into a problem, today, after applying some stain to my middle gun deck. I don't like the look of this, but I'm going to go with it just the same. I don't want to rebuild this deck. Hopefully the different shades of wood (all the same wood) will not be too terribly noticeable once the model is completed, the deck is populated with 'Gun Deck Stuff', grating, and the deck also becomes somewhat 'shaded' and shadowed by the upper decks that are yet to be built and installed. I'll need to pay closer attention to what the wood looks like while I'm laying the planks atop the remaining upper decks. Note to Self... always stagger dark and light planks to ensure that this does not ever happen again! Second Note to Self... try to keep toes and unclipped nails out of future pictures! 😐

I'm looking at a 'Genmitsu' CNC router 4040 pro (Amazon), with the fourth axis accessory, for a home 'desktop' sized unit. I have a router at work, but I'd rather work on my hobby projects at home, at my leisure, and not have to bother with going to my place of work to use their 'HUGE' CNC router for small sized projects. Not very convenient. Does anyone have any experience using this specific Genmitsu 4040 Pro router? Suggestions for other routers would also be appreciated provided you have firsthand experience using the model that you recommend. 4th axis is also a huge selling point for me.

I was hoping to take care of the grating on my middle gun deck this weekend, but that's not going to happen. The grating material that came with the kit has proven to be insufficient, in quantity, to properly make the grating size needed for the middle gun deck. I just ordered some grating material from Model Expo, but it won't be here until next week. I might just continue planking the interior of the hull and work up towards the upper gun deck while I wait. I might even just put this build on hold, until the grating arrives, and work on another model in the meantime.

Thanks guys, this helps! What if I were to use a pattern similar to Allan's 74 Gun Ship circa 1798 example for the stern, and David's pattern on page #137 of his book (vol 1) for the stem? Would those two separate designs be acceptable and also likely for a ship the size of 'Hancock' and also the era? Sorry guys, I'm not showing the image from David's book. Copyrighted material and respect for David.

Not being an 18th century ship builder, nor a forestry expert, this initial draft represents my first attempt at designing the stem and stern sections of a circa 1776-1777 Continental Frigate without having a whole lot of usable historical engineering data available. This design is currently nothing but a ‘concept’ and a subjective work in progress. Every time I look at my drawing, I discover something that just doesn’t look correct, at least not correct from a ‘modern day’ engineering perspective... and then I quickly modify the drawing. I probably should not do this as methods of engineering that are used today are nothing like they once were 247 years ago. I’m just simply doing my best to try and design something that would be structurally sound and actually feasible via the readily available sizes and shapes of wood, ease of layered assembly construction techniques and the stable ‘locking’ of timber components together to prevent shifting wear and also reduce the potential for undesirable stresses being placed upon certain components while under heavy loads. “That was a ‘mouthful’ of ‘blurbage’, but you know what I’m trying to say!” The hull of this ship is based upon Harold Hahn's plans for the Continental Frigate 'Hancock' 1777. His model was rather small, so I doubt that details of the stem and the stern framing would be easily seen. That's probably why his stem and stern pieces are basically nothing but a blank canvas on his plans. It makes sense. Why put a lot of work into something that will not be seen anyway? I'm scaling the model up and believe that these details will now be visible to those who want to peek between the frames. I'll never get the actual framing of the stem and stern 100% correct, so I just need to make it look reasonable for 'possible construction methods' of the time, artistic licensing included. Let me know what you think, what should be changed, etc. Please note that the keel is not ready to be reviewed yet. It's currently just there to keep the Stem and the Stern sections from falling off of my computer screen!🙂

Has anyone ever experienced issues with wood swelling and cracking via changes in weather and humidity, over time, where lots of 'deadwood', etc. is used in the stem and stern of your models? Expansion, contraction and eventual cracking. If so, how do you counter this problem and prevent it from happening?

The framed in area was first CA glued really well, for strength before drilling. I also put masking tape on the top side of the deck to prevent splintering when the forstner bit came through the planking. After drilling, I rolled up some 400 grit sandpaper to work the hole until the mast fit "Jussst Right!" "Nice snug fit!" Everything perfectly centered and canted!

That explains it nicely. Thanks again, Allan!

Allan, I'm looking at your drawing. I'm curious. Would there have been any framing 'below' those wedges to support them and prevent them from falling out when they became loose due the mast constantly crushing against them, in all directions, and compressing them via the force of the wind, etc.? Maybe there would have been some 'lower' support framing, below those wedges, similar to what I have done on my model? I'm just guessing here. How were those 'wedges' kept permanently fixed in their places, and 'always held tight' up against the mast, even after a bit of time at sea and a lot of crushing punishment from the wind? One more question. What would have kept those wedges from 'denting' or otherwise physically damaging the outer perimeter of the mast, itself, thus creating even more potential for further loosening between the wedges and the mast? Aside from potential wear to the mast... there must have also been a system for either tightening loose wedges back up against the mast, or maybe just replacing the loose wedges, as needed, once they became worn and compressed. This obviously would have nothing to do with model building. I'm just being curious for the sake of being curious! Tom...

Interesting indeed and well noted Allan. Thank you!

Deck is now framed in around the mast, and everything is perfectly aligned for center and the cant of the mast. I can now finish planking the deck, then drill through the framing/jig and have a perfectly located hole for the mast to go through.

I've not had any speed issues at all, ever... at least not during the normal times that I check in on a daily basis.

Middle gun deck going in. Learning from my previous mistake of trying to form the arch of my 'lower' gun deck, after it was built, I decided to 'pre-bend' this newest gun deck. It was not only a wise choice but also yielded much more consistent results! What I did was to cut my beams a bit longer than required and boil them in water, for 30 minutes, to totally saturate the wood with heat and moisture. I then pulled my hot/wet beams out of the boiling pot and quickly clamped them all into a sandwich between a radiused stainless-steel form and a flexible metal ruler as a backing. The metal ruler backing, and a few clamps insured that the wood would not try to 'kink' or go flat anywhere along the bend. I then baked this sandwich in the oven, @ 260 degrees for an hour then shut the oven off to let things cool down. Worked much better than using just a hot plank bender and a wooden form. After a few hours of cooling and drying I removed the clamps and was pleasantly surprised with the results. The arch was perfect on the first try! 😁 Now, I need to frame in around the mast with addition support beams, forming a square that is the same dimensions of the mast, in the proper X/Y axis locations that I need to keep the mast accurately centered and canted. This additional framing will become my 'drilling-jig' to ensure that I get the mast hole correct on the first try. I'll then complete the planking, over the additional mast hole framing and finally remove the deck from the ship, drill the hole for the mast then put the deck back in. If you look at the mast and its hole on my lower gun deck, you'll see a perfect fit. I did the lower gun deck mast hole the exact same way, as I also did with the mast hole in the Orlop deck. I'll continue to use this same method of locating the mast holes for every deck on this build. It's the only way that I can think of to easily get the mast hole properly located for each deck, one deck at a time, without a lot of guessing, hoping and potential rework. Nothing above the Orlop deck has been glued in place. The stanchions, ladders, gun decks, mast... all friction fitted and 100% loose!

Howdy! Welcome aboard!

Hello Michael! Not to worry. I truly doubt that I would actually do this. It was just a curious thought that I wanted to share in case 'somebody else' wants to try it! 😗

Hello Allen. You just gave me an idea via the LOS thing! I seriously doubt that I will do this due to the amount of work it would require, but... that is also subject to exactly how many bolts would be required to sister a whole ships worth of frames together. I have micro brass tubes that will fit inside of each other. I just checked, and these types of tubes are still readily available, on eBay, in the proper sizes for the 1:76 scale that I seek. The simulated bolt up frames could be made via a 1mm O.D. brass tube, a .5mm O.D. brass tube, and a bundle of extremely fine copper wires twisted together. The 1mm tube is cut slightly proud of the thickness of the sistered frames. This tube would represent brass washers. The .5mm tube is treated with LOS and cut slightly proud of the 1mm tube and inserted into the 1mm tube. This would represent the nuts. Lastly, some extremely fine copper wire 'strands' are bundled up and twisted together, via a drill motor, until the twisted copper wires will properly fit inside of the .5mm tube... treated with LOS and cut a bit proud of the .5mm tube. The twisted wire would represent the 'all threads'/bolts. I'm wondering if the brass tube would darken less than the twisted pure copper wire, creating contrast, after being treated with the LOS, due to the brass tube also containing zinc? This would obviously be a lot of work. Each tube would have to be dressed up on the ends and also cleaned out, with teeny, tiny drill bits after being cut, to reshape the tube, remove burrs and allow the next tube, or twisted wires to be fitted inside. After all is said and done... would the 'micro-fruits' of such labor even be noticeable? Just a thought. Figured that I might as well throw it out there... for whatever it's worth. Tom...

Does anyone have any examples as to how such 'bolts' can be successfully modeled in 1/67 scale?

I never thought too much about the scale of those ladders until you mentioned it. They simply 'looked' good, and that's all I was going on, until now. "Now", those ladders are really starting to bug me! I might need to scratch build some new ones with proper scale dimensions and realistic steps... @#$%! This is reason #967 why I really don't want to buy any more pre-manufactured kits. In all honesty, the only thing that I have truly used, as intended, from this kit is the ridged frame that forms the hull shape of this ship model's section, which is probably not accurate either!

Support stanchions are complete, save my needing to clean them up a bit. Now, I need to figure out how I want to populate the Orlop deck with furnishings, stuff, etc. This is my first idea, for the first half of the Orlop deck. Three surgeon's tables being used by the crew for mess tables, gambling, whatever. Wooden crates for benches and chairs to sit on. Not sure where to go on the opposite side of the deck just yet. I might even change this design.

You might be able to use a jewelers saw to cut out the windows. Drill a hole in each windowpane to feed the saw blade through, then cut out each separate pane of glass. That's the only way I can think of to get square corners. If the metal is too thick, and breaks your sawblades, use a Dremel and grind away at the back of the part until the metal is thin enough to easily cut.

No, there are actually 4 steps, which is still a really tall step (around 20" between steps). That's what comes with the kit. I suppose that sailors had longer legs back then than they do today! 😗 There are a 'lot' of problems with this model. When I bought this, I had no real direction. I just wanted to build a ship model that looked good. Historical accuracy was not a part of the plan. That changed and I now have something that will 'never' be correct. I'm now using it as a training aid to hone some skills for my next project. My next project 'WILL' have a more proper, historically accurate direction to follow. My current plan with this kit bash is to simply do the best I can do, with what I have to work with. I want the model to look nice when all is said and done, but I don't want to put too much effort into making corrections. I just want to get 'er done and move on to something with a more promising future. Everyone has to start somewhere. This is my start...

Here's the 'flip' side. Ladders/stairs are not glued. They're just sitting loose in place, just like the stanchions. Please forgive me for anything that doesn't look square and plumb. Everything will be situated properly before I add any glue.

Winston, from Model Ship Builder finally got back to me. Stated that his computer had to go to the shop for a repair. All is good now! Plans will be on the way shortly...

Lower gun deck stanchions complete and dry fitted in place. I like it. A bit of cleanup with a file and some sandpaper and they will be ready to permanently install.