NAZGÛL

I agree ... I also like seeing knots.
 
OK. How about combining ideas ??
Sew your thin rat-line thread through  ... create the sag as you want ... spot glue the ends ...
THEN, tie a clove-hitch knot over each shroud/rat-line juncture.

Thanks for the input Keith, its appreciated!
 
Here is a more high res pic:
 
 

 
 
You may be right, but to my eye it looks right on the model.
 
I do tend to like downscaling details pretty often on my models...
 
 
/Matti

Cheers mate! Actually I'm enjoying the rigging so far. After all that shaping of the deadeyes and metal parts it feels so quick to just color the ropes and put them on and thats it. I'm sure ratlines will be different as there are so many though.
 
Two questions:
 
When is the best time to make the "ladders" (A) up to the tops? I would guess after the ratlines are on.
 
Is it possible to get the curved sag the real ratlines get ( B )? I'm afraid lose ratlines would curve unrealistically and look wormy (if that's a word haha) as a thin thread has little weight.
 

 
/Matti

Thanks for the suggestion Steve! Yeah I found a thread here suggesting that. I'm pretty sure I would mess up the shrouds with that method. And for me its something of an aesthetic decision, like adding nails to the hull or not. Or not adding any chaulking between the weatherdeck planks. 
 
I don't really agree that you would not see any knots where the ratlines cross the shrouds. I see it even on smaller reference pics.
 

 
I do agree that the knots in this scale are slightly to big, but I prefer that to no knots. I hope to get a glose color match between the shrouds and the ratlines and that this would make the knots less prominent.
 
 
Cheers!
 
/Matti

Thanks for the suggestion Steve! Yeah I found a thread here suggesting that. I'm pretty sure I would mess up the shrouds with that method. And for me its something of an aesthetic decision, like adding nails to the hull or not. Or not adding any chaulking between the weatherdeck planks. 
 
I don't really agree that you would not see any knots where the ratlines cross the shrouds. I see it even on smaller reference pics.
 

 
I do agree that the knots in this scale are slightly to big, but I prefer that to no knots. I hope to get a glose color match between the shrouds and the ratlines and that this would make the knots less prominent.
 
 
Cheers!
 
/Matti

Just a suggestion to consider, Matti, but I have seen at least one builder here one MSW who has sewn a thinner thread straight through the shrouds. This is INSTEAD of tying all those clove-hitches. I think they tie the line off at each end with a clove-hitch - plus a spot of glue.
 
I've never tried this method (I used to have nightmares involving being swarmed by clove-hitches), but it would make your job of creating sag a lot easier. 

Thanks man! I eyeball as much as I can. But that would not work if I had no real ship to look at. I suck at interpreting plans though so that way has big downsides also.
 
Matti

I did a little test on the fake shrouds just to see if I could get any controle of the curve. I felt at home with the CA on toothpick method so I will probably go with that. It also turned out to have the advantage that the ratlines when glued end up close to the color my painted shrouds have.
 

 
Next I did some templates by scaling pictures of the real ship. That way I hope to get the same curves as she has, and also how to space them.
 

 
Gulp, this means I'm going to have a go at the model now...
 
 
/Matti

Hello Matti
One thing to keep in mind is the ratlines are usually the smallest diameter rope on the ship.I use small diameter sewing thread.At your scale you would never see the twist of the rope.Hope that helps.Also you might try doing some with both a clove hitch & a simple overhand knot.I find it`s easier to get a naturally looking sag with an overhand knot even though it`s not historically correct.
 
/Mark

vary nice work that u are doing keep it  up

Hey again!
 
I'm finally done with the channels and its details. Also did the collar holding on to the bowsprit.
 
First a pic I took at the museum.
 

 
And how mine turned out:
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
Time to start planning those ratlines now...
 
 
/Matti

Cheers pops!
 
I tried to take dark background images earlier. I don't get why the LED lights look so weird in the image. IRL it is quite dim and have a grey/greenish tone, as the windows are tinted. The camera pick the light up as bright and almost blue.
 

 

 
Now it's back to shaping deadeyes and the metal parts for them so I can continue with the foremast.
 
 
Thanks for the likes everyone!
 
 
Matti

Thanks man! I eyeball as much as I can. But that would not work if I had no real ship to look at. I suck at interpreting plans though so that way has big downsides also.
 
Matti

If you use that same "eye" you've used so far it WILL be excellent.
 
I tend to eyeball many things rather then measure, on small stuff sometimes I think over exaggerating certain features or ratios, sometimes gives a more detailed look, in for example the shroud to ratline ratio. When I see shrouds tied with ratline of the same size its like fingernails on a chalkboard for me, but in some kits the rope is so limited. My swift had 2 sizes of white thread. I upgraded to 5 sizes of brown and 4 of tan to cover all my bases.
 
I just thought you might have used some scrap rope for practice, as it looked different.

Ah, Just me reading your post all wrong Keith! I read ratlines, long day today. I was wondering about the ratline thickness earlier, and I guess thats why I read wrong. The rope is the same (not as the mizzen that I gave thinner shrouds), but unpainted on the plank.
 
I bought many different thicknesses, and judge the rope thickness by eye compaired to reference or what look I prefer.
 
 
/Matti

Are you using the kit-supplied thread or buying from scale rope suppliers?  I haven't really looked at the kit-supplied stuff yet, but the first model I built had thread that was way out of scale and I needed to replace it to get it to look right.
 
mark

No Matti, I think the size on the model looks perfectly matched to the real ship photo scale-wise.
 
It was just that the practice shrouds looked smaller to my eye, like I said it could have been the background board, just like the outside lighting give a better photographic representation of color.
I was just thinking that if it was smaller, the proportion of shroud to ratline would be greater on the model, if the small ratline size was used on the model and would look great. I'm not nit-picking, just thinking out loud.
 
I'm not saying anything is wrong, just wondered if the practice shrouds were thinner or the same as on the model.
 
Looking at these 2 pictures, assuming shroud separation is constant, to my eye the practice shroud look thinner. Its probably an illusion from the background.

Thanks for the input Keith, its appreciated!
 
Here is a more high res pic:
 
 

 
 
You may be right, but to my eye it looks right on the model.
 
I do tend to like downscaling details pretty often on my models...
 
 
/Matti

Thanks for the input Keith, its appreciated!
 
Here is a more high res pic:
 
 

 
 
You may be right, but to my eye it looks right on the model.
 
I do tend to like downscaling details pretty often on my models...
 
 
/Matti

The "practice" round looks good...  and I think one can obsess over trying to achieve perfect symmetry with the ratlines. A little serendipity looks more natural as far as I'm concerned ------It also looks like there is some slackness to the real shroud images and this will prove very challenging at the scale we work at --- I find that the shrouds need to be quite taut otherwise tying the ratlines may distort the shrouds..........enjoy!!!!!!!!
 
JP

Hey Matti
 
Not being critical, just curious.
...was the practice done with smaller diameter rope on the shrouds? I saved pictures to the desktop and compared your actual shrouds and the practice shrouds appear smaller...but you know how hard scale is to judge... (I have found I save lots of pictures for blowing up to see detail better)
The reason I ask is that I have a huge issue when the shroud to ratline proportions are not far enough apart. The proportion on the practice looks good, but the shrouds look smaller diameter then your previous photos of your Wasan 1628.
 
Looking at the real ship rigging the ratline dimension appears 1/2 or less.
 
Here's the picture you posted earlier of the real ship and a cutout, which becomes pixelated when expanded, but as expanded the ratlines appear to be even a smaller diameter (less than 1/2). Isn't scaling a pain. Also can anyone out there tell me the best way the measure rope diameter, The compression in the calipers gives quite a range and I finally just had Chuck send what he saw best. Having many differing thicknesses really helps and for me adds HUGELY to the overall detail.
 


 
Again, I know whatever you do will be Exceptional, or it wouldn't happen. The practice shrouds just looked smaller.. but that could have been the board background.
 
Ratlines are really going to make a huge wonderful change, it always does. You will probably be tying clove hitches in your dreams before your finished. My builds always invade my dreams, especially the HUGE tasks, I see it as extra practice

I did a little test on the fake shrouds just to see if I could get any controle of the curve. I felt at home with the CA on toothpick method so I will probably go with that. It also turned out to have the advantage that the ratlines when glued end up close to the color my painted shrouds have.
 

 
Next I did some templates by scaling pictures of the real ship. That way I hope to get the same curves as she has, and also how to space them.
 

 
Gulp, this means I'm going to have a go at the model now...
 
 
/Matti

I did a little test on the fake shrouds just to see if I could get any controle of the curve. I felt at home with the CA on toothpick method so I will probably go with that. It also turned out to have the advantage that the ratlines when glued end up close to the color my painted shrouds have.
 

 
Next I did some templates by scaling pictures of the real ship. That way I hope to get the same curves as she has, and also how to space them.
 

 
Gulp, this means I'm going to have a go at the model now...
 
 
/Matti

If there's any one that  can do it..... you can Matti !!
Frank

I did a little test on the fake shrouds just to see if I could get any controle of the curve. I felt at home with the CA on toothpick method so I will probably go with that. It also turned out to have the advantage that the ratlines when glued end up close to the color my painted shrouds have.
 

 
Next I did some templates by scaling pictures of the real ship. That way I hope to get the same curves as she has, and also how to space them.
 

 
Gulp, this means I'm going to have a go at the model now...
 
 
/Matti