Padeen

Morning my friends,
 
@ Popeye,
Thanks!
This helps a lot!
It's great to have such friends like you all.
 
@ Grant,
 
I can believe that it looks funny when i do the ratlines at this moment.
 
A little health update.
I think that the new medication are working. After a good night sleep i wake up with no fever ( for the first time in 2 weeks) we also have no internet so I'll be typing this on my I phone. Soon as we have the internet back , we will be both back!
 
Sjors and Anja

18/03/2012
Well, I've not opened a bottle yet: maybe when I will have a case done for Le Camaret... And as I don't have a clear idea on how to rig the legs yet, I leave that for when I have a chance to go back to the seacoast (Remark 2013: not done yet...) and I give you a few more shots of my now finished model:



 



 

 
---

(Remark 2013: more pics in the completed model gallery...)
 
24/02/2013
She does not have a case yet but she is now at my parents', having survived a three-hour train trip in an overcrowded wagon last Christmas with only one wound: a ring connecting the "upper gaff?" to the upper part of the mast broke. It was easily repaired with a new brass ring and she now stands proudly in my parents' bedroom waiting for me to come back and fetch her!

Afternoon Sir
 
Your model is a piece of art!.......I have been building plastic kits for 15 years and decided to upgrade to wood. Le Camaret will be my first wood model. Hope mine will look as good as yours....Thanks for your tips!!
Regards
LJ

Indeed, if one is looking for authenticity, a fully planked model should also be painted. Why don't we all do that ? Well, I guess for most of us it's just a matter of aesthetics: some find natural wood or stained wood looks better, others don't want their beautiful job of a planking to be hidden under a coat of paint, some are afraid to spoil the model with a poor painting job... For instance I did not paint the hull of my fisrt model beacause the contrast between the different woods pleased me (and the model was not based on any particular boat anyway) but I will paint the second one trying to respect the colour scheme of its period and country both for authenticity and for aestetic reasons (I don't like the look of walnut).
As for museum models, I think that many models were made as shipyard prototypes (like the Admiralty models with partially planked hulls and no masts) so they were left unpainted. Then maybe modelers thought that this was perfection and where inclined not to paint their models (a bit as we constructed buildings with white columns, taking inspiration from Greek and Roman temples, not knowing that they were painted at the time).
Just my two cents' but I think the main answer is "aesthetics".

Thanks very much Sjors, Brian, Pat, Frank, John, Adeline, Adam, Kevin and Patrick - your comments are always appreciated.
 
Sjors, any time you're "down under' you can certainly drop in .
 
Welcome home (again) John .
 
Adeline - you can order the barrels, but the rest is up to you .
 
Some pics of the eight completed guns with their rigging. I've also glued in the remaining deck beams :
 

 

 

 
This weekend I'm taking Vulture to a model show at Port Macquarie - I took her up there twelve months ago and have made considerable progress since then.
 
  Danny

Hiya!
 
I was waiting for the new parts I changed, but now I have added them. I have completed the hull but, frustratingly, I am still waiting for the figurehead, which will hamper rigging the underside of the bowsprit.
 
While I waited, I made up all of the yards, so now masts and yards are all 'blocked up'. Today, I stepped the masts and bowsprit into their permanent positions, after I finally completed the poop screen bulkheads, and the poop itself.
 
Here is why I waited for the new poop screen bulkhead parts - the one on the left is new and follows what's on the actual Victory now, and the one on the right is the old version, as seen in the John McKay books:
 

 
I added the escutcheons for the new doors, as I noticed them on the original Victory when studying the pictures I had taken, and the hinges as they actually appear for the side bulkheads - they were/are left in brass. 
 
And soon to be hidden..


 
Poop almost complete:

 
The photo etched assemblies for the flag lockers seemed to work quite well - and plenty of space above for the small cleats (The ones in the kit will be slightly larger than the ones shown and will be photo etched - I erred too much on the side of caution when drawing them and are just a tad small - but perfectly useable. One thing I don't like is using 'one size fits all' fittings, so cleats come in a few shapes and sizes with the smaller ones being photo etched and the larger ones laser cut.
 
And with a couple of bits added to the poop, the whole hull is now complete:

 
I was waiting for my anchor designs, too, which I have now made up - they are quite large...:

 
And that's it - masts stepped and boarding pikes added to the fore and main and I now have the boring task of shrouds and ratlines to look forward to, which I'll start very soon...
 
I don't really take a great many pics at the rigging stage, as I still think that good line drawings are better for the modeller to follow..
 
Cheers,
 
Chris

B.E. thanks for stopping by.
 
It interesting working on each aspect separately as the need to operate the rigging and sails dictates what I have to make next. each task seems to require more research into how things are done.
 
Last evening I was able to make the rail for the bottom of the mast the posts knees and rail are all from different colours of maple they are not glued yet. The posts are set through the deck and abut the beam in front of them.
 

 

 
The belaying pin is a placeholder to see what they would look like the final ones will be from Lignum Vitae.
 
Michael

HI Ferit,
 
I have use a little beeswax before I put them on.
 
I have re-do a few ratlines and I hope that this is it what Danny means.
2 pictures….one a little further and one closer.
So let me know what you are thinking of it.
If you don't like it, please say so.
I don't remove them again         
 

Thank you Tony, Brian, Toni, Grant and Alistair.
 
Brian, the stain was spirit based Wattyl. I've thinned it down even more on the rest of the breech ropes (about 60% turps). The first one can go right down the back under the quarterdeck.
 
Hi Alistair, good to see you back again. Enjoy the ride .
 
Here's a couple of pics of a completed gun. I'm going to show them all as "run out" except for Number 3 which will be at full recoil with a train tackle :
 

 

 

 
  Danny

Peter,
you may be right, but there are still so many fine Details to be done. Next to the rigging sometime this year I would also intend to make a full suit of sails of which I have no plans yet.
But in the meantime there Needs to be a lot more work on the hull. Regarding to the coppering, which I completed today I shall go for the rudder now (a double nail capline on the copperline is not attached yet) to provide a neat horizontal finish to the coppering. It went so well, doing the "plates" from tape, actually 4-5 in row at a time, I could hardly believe the Speed myself. Also I have a prototype of a brass Investment casting of the figurehead under way, am expecting it curiously next week, if it works out well.
 
Nils
 

 

 

 

 
 
 

The .024" plastic coated Beadalon 49 strand wire works well. This is with the boom hanging loose and no extra tension, I need to get some smaller diameter black heat shrink. and make the loops bigger but I am happy with the way it is hanging. Also I need to reverse the inside chock. I think I will also make a small saddle for the wire to attach to the block rather than just the shackle.
 

 

 
Michael

Hi Padeen,
 
Thank you 
 
I was wondering where you are lately.
I think you are enjoying the summer.
For the engine…..should be fun.
A ship from the year 1700 with an engine             
They have just inventing candles……..
What about the pictures….when the time is there, pictures are coming.
I have now posted 11 pictures in two days, is that not enough?
 

Hello all.
Some new photos of my Vasa build. At this moment, all the woodwork of the kit has been finished. Masts and yards have been built, furled sails have been placed on masts, and some running rigging for the yards has been placed. The masts are already glued to the interior of the hull.
I made the mistake, when building the fore mast, I got carried away and placed some of the standing rigging stays. Big mistake. I later realized that stays have to be placed after the shrouds as the former go over the latter. Well... I will have to find a way to fix this, that doesn't involve redoing that work.
Remember that only the masts are fixed. Yard arms are not, so if you see some misalignment there, it will be corrected with the rigging (hopefully   )
 
Thanks for watching.

Looking very, very nice Mark. The nice thing with these variations on the French ships - it gives you a choice.
If there's no concrete evidence in either direction, then I think you should follow the advice I've seen you give to others - you're the captain, it's your call.

I omitted to fit bow and stern blocks when framing, but this was mainly because I didn’t know of them back then (well, that’s my excuse). They may perhaps have helped, but I don’t recall any particular difficulties in planking the bow or stern as a consequence.
 
I really didn’t encounter that many problems with the first lime planking either and it seemed to go relatively smoothly, provided the individual planks were properly tapered. I had also never thought to cut a rabbet line for the garboard plank, however, thinking about it in retrospect, it would probably have been a good idea. (In passing, I have sometimes wondered why the kit manufacturers never think to pre-cut this, since its placing is somewhat critical, and I would imagine is something of a daunting prospect for the beginner.) A fore rabbet, up the stem, would also certainly have been advantageous since I encountered a problem with what I have termed ’plank creep’. This is where the first planking, and thus by association the second, comes rather nearer the bow than necessary – and is your own fault! It is not that noticeable now, but you can see it should you care to look closely (please don’t!) Anyway, I tried to ensure a close fit of the garboard plank, by sanding down the inner edge, and this seemed to make a good joint.
 
Next came the second walnut planking, and here I made a perhaps ’radical’ departure from the instructions (easy enough to do now, but in those distant days…) and clinker-plank the second layer.  All that I had read about cutters told me that their hulls were so planked, and inherited from vessels of an earlier period, so I wondered why the Sherbourne was of carvel construction. However, having been designed by Thomas Slade (responsible for the design of the Victory two years later) and built in Woolwich Dockyard, the answer appeared obvious – they were more used to that kind with warship construction. I believe Chris Watton, the kit’s designer, has also said she was carvel. I imagine that the real Sherbourne would probably have been clinker planked, as was more usual, had she been constructed in a private yard. Moreover Peter Goodwin, in what had now become my ’bible’ (the Naval Cutter Alert), maintains that clinker construction remained in cutters until around 1810 – apart that is, from those constructed in the Dockyards. So, I persuaded myself I was on sort-of-safe ground for the project, and in any case I wanted to try the technique – so, clinker it was to be!
 
Planking of course had to commence at the garboard strake, since the planks above overlap onto those below. I overlaid my planks by about a third, which seemed about right, sanding down the top edge of each plank so that it formed a good joint with the one above. A thin bead of glue along the top of the strake below, plus a small amount along the reverse of each plank, ensured a good bond. I learnt early on not to use too much glue, as it tended to seep out onto the planking, which of course was not desirable! Provided the planks were sufficiently tapered at bow and stern, I don’t think I encountered many problems – or perhaps I have conveniently forgotten about them!  A few small stealers were needed at the stern, but apart from that the planking went surprisingly well. 
 
For both planking layers I opted to use scale length planks, staggering them as in full size practice. This was not only more historically correct, but I found that the shorter lengths made for easier positioning. I believe I planked about three strakes, on alternate sides, until the planking was done, and it was actually quite exciting to see it progress. At the time I was a member on the old Dry Dock Models site, and remember that posting a few pictures of my build encouraged at least one other member there to try clinker planking for himself. His results were pretty impressive too, so far as I remember.
 
Perhaps I should say a little about painting the waterline. Marking this was quite literally achieved by cutting a hull-shaped hole in a piece of hardboard, gradually enlarging it until I was satisfied the model was at the height I required, and then drawing a line with a pencil around the hull. Rather heath-robinson, but it seemed to work! The painting was a little tricky, especially at bow and stern, where the lie of the planks tended to interfere with a good line, but I think I managed it reasonably well. I opted to use an ivory shade rather than white, since it is a largish area and I felt that the white would be too harsh. It also has a somewhat old look to it. The planks from the waterline to the wale were left natural, although they were treated with beeswax.
 
The hull pictures are reproduced below:
 

 

 
 
 
 
 
Next, the bulwarks, stern and deck.

Well, after 1443 hours over 608 consecutive days,  she's done !!!!!!!!  Here are the photos, some of which will appear in the Completed Ship Gallery later today:
 
Please note -  as the original photos were lost in the disc corruption issue in March, 2014, I've posted these replacements (the only ones I still have available:
 

 

 

 

 

 
 
 
 
 
Now, as we used to say at back work, the job's not done until the paperwork is complete.  So here are a few comments I'd like to make regarding this voyage.
 
I'd like to thank Chuck Passaro once again for designing this kit and following through to have it kitted by Model Expo (who did a fine job as well).  Chuck's plans and instructions truly set the standard for future kits.  They made it possible for a relative novice like myself to actually complete his first POB fully-rigged ship.
 
But beyond even that, I wish to thank all here on MSW (1.0 and 2.0) for their interest, participation, critique, patience and advice during the journey.  There is no way to mention everyone here.  But trust me, there were several times I was caught in a fog bank listening to waves crashing against unseen rocks...and you folks got me through it.  And for that I shall be ever grateful.
 
Yes, I let the log go astray at times with the inclusion of cotton fields, frogs, spiders, fish, airplane and even moose.  But I think we had some fun along the way.  MSW became an almost daily ritual and, as much as I enjoy watching everyone's projects, successes and failures, what I really enjoyed was the friendship, camaraderie and downright concern for one another.
 
My skills improved along the way --- and I've learned an awful lot I was completely unaware of.  I am proud of what you've helped me achieve and now at least know what I can do better.  Many of you know I'm primarily an R/C aircraft builder and pilot.  What you don't know is that this was to be my and last ship model.  But things have changed.
 
I'll be building Syren's case over the next few weeks, have a week long annual fishing trip just around the corner and will be spending most of September overseas.  So the shop will be quiet for a bit, the sense of accomplishment almost overshadowed by the sadness that the build is over.  But I still have my friends here.  And I'll be watching.  Always cheering you toward victory ---- and sometimes giving you the business    .
 
And the shipyard shall once again find itself beneath a cloud of sawdust when the next project begins in the fall.  And that project will be -----
 
CONFEDERACY !
 
Until then, everyone be well and..........    STAY THE COURSE !!
 
 

Because Grant don't like my singing and I'm tired of waiting for Augie because sunday is almost over, I placed myself a few pictures…..
 
I've done the safety railing and something else.
What that something else is, you name it         
 

bonjour
aujourd'hui je vous fais part de l'avancement de mes travaux:
 
je suis parti sur le kit soclaine de l'IRIS vendu sous le nom de la recouvrance!
 
hors ,la recouvrance est une réplique de 1990 construite aux chantiers du guip à brest et porte le nom d'un fameux quartier
de la ville ou les bateaux partaient....
 
j'ai donc commencé par revoir tout le pont et les accessoires:
 

Bigcreekdad,
 
I'm sure you're Sherbourne is just fine!
 
As to the cottage, although it's just inland from the coast north of Stockholm, no, I'm not a fisherman. We're reminded on occasion of the proximity of the Baltic, such as the other night which was somewhat misty inland, and we could hear the ship's fog signals. If the wind is in the right direction, we often hear the ship's engines. There is a small harbour not far from us, and often the mere sight of the yachts there makes one want to go sailing again!
 
A summer cottage is quite a usual thing in Sweden, my wife's father constructing it around 1960, overlooking a small lake. We now have a couple of neighbours. We've made a few improvements to it, such as giving it a new roof and chimney a few years ago, and we normally spend the summer months here. It is, mercifully, fairly quiet but it is getting noisier. There is a motorway to the north of us running between Stockholm and Kapellskär, which is the ferry port to Mariehamn in the Åland Islands, and when the ferries come in it seems to become a race track. It's worse when the wind blows from that direction! Unfortunately, there are plans to enlarge the port. We'll probably be here until late September or early October.
 
Adeline,
 
Not particularly a funny way, although I think it's perhaps more apt when referring to people. Not to worry though!
 
I'll do my best to recall my recollections, and I look forward to your Fly update.
 

I make the breech ropes and the eyebolt with rings…...
Everything is in place and I started with the small boat.
Planking is done and I use some filler.
Now I can go sanding and then paint the whole thing.
Progress still going slowly because of the heat and working thing….
 

Little boat is finished.
It's not the quality that Grant is showing, but I'm happy with it !
I have to make some oars but that's for later because I have to buy a few dowels.
And of course pictures!
 

Remember "Back in the day" before fast food and national heath programs we where on average shorter and thiner than we are today, so a slightly smaller stance might actually be more to SCALE than the model requires.
Andy

Side Tackles
 
The Side Tackles were used to run out the guns. Each side has two single 6" blocks which have a hook stropped to them. One block also has a becket to take the end of the line, which is eye-spliced to it.
 
I've made up one of these tackles so far to see how it looks, and also to give me the method for doing all sixteen of them. In the pics below you can see the attachments to the carriage and spirketting - the line will be tidied up when the guns are installed permanently :
 

 

 

 
  Danny

The thing about kit price is that, most of the time, you get what you pay for. I remember paying almost £600 for my Sovereign of the Seas 20 years ago. The cost didn't end there, though: I bought new and better wood, had to change the model beyond original recognition to get it took even vaguely correct (even deck heights and bulwark lines and curves), new blocks, thread, fittings etc. The model, in reality ended up costing closer to £800. However, if made well enough, they can be sold for a lot more than the original cost of the kit and materials.
 
For me personally, I want to design stuff so that people like me do not have to throw out half the kit contents and buy better quality fittings/materials to make a half decent job of the finished project - it should all be there in the kit without me having to spend an extra dime, aside from paints/glues and tools - and most important of all, the kit I make, when complete has more than a passing resemblance to the vessel it purports to be - not 'It looks about right if you squint and ignore the oversized turned columns, and don't look at the bow and stern too closely...' No kit will ever be perfect due to production and material constraints, but that doesn't stop you trying to get close..
 
I have to admit that one of my pet hates are the sea of kits that, although cheap, are no more than caricatures of the original vessels (and that's even if the vessel that the model is based upon existed at all!) - when I see them made 'out of the box', they remind me the cheap and cheerful made up 'models' you see in every seaside shop. No matter how good a builder you are, they always end up looking like a cheap piece of Chinese furniture - it can be a 16th Century galleon or a 19th Century three decker, they all share the same fittings - and, speaking as a modeller, I do not like them. If you don't want your cheap kit to look like a piece of seaside tat, you will have to spend the equivalent of the original cost of the kit again. These were my thoughts from over 20 years ago, when in my early 20's, and my views haven't really changed that much since - but at least I can act upon them

Chris,
 
I would recommend including a set of flags with the kit, but not sails. I have always included flags (and pennants) with my models. I think they are a nice "finishing touch." For those who would want to make sails, a plan set included with the kit would be nice. If the interest is high, Amati can always make a full suit of actual cut sails available as an option.
 
Assuming you drive the completed Vic to Italy this Fall, I understand your job is basically done. I get that you can't accurately guess on how long it will take to put this model into production - however.... can you (please) tell us how long it took Amati to get the Vanguard (or the Pegasus) into kit boxes?
 
Ron