jud

A battle cruiser is a battleship with less armor.  The idea is that it could outrun anything it couldn't fight and beat anything it couldn't outrun.  Jutland sort of ended this idea although it stuck around until WWII.  An armored cruiser is just that, a cruiser with more armor.  Originally there were light cruisers, protected cruisers and armored cruisers.  Light cruisers were essentially large destroyers used for scouting and screening the fleet.  Protected cruisers were heavier but did not have much armor, the protection was from placing the coal bunkers and water tanks around the machinery and other vulnerable spaces.  The armored cruisers were armed much like the protected cruisers but had heavier armor.  Protected cruisers were used like big gunboats, show the flag missions, isolated postings with limited possibility of encountering a heavily armed enemy and as flag ships for detached squadrons.  Armored cruisers worked with the fleet.
 
This is just a quick view of a subject that is really pretty complex.  The history of warship design from the 1870s up to WWII has many examples of ships that do not fall into any defined catagory but are lumped in with catch all groups like "protected cruiser".
 
An interesting thing is the last of the battle cruisers were the USS Alaska and USS Guam.  The were designed as flag ships for fast carrier squadrons and combined fleets.  They were launched in1944.  The Navy called them large cruisers but their designation was CB (battle cruiser) and they match the original idea of what a battle cruiser was.  Both were laid up in 1947 and scraped in 1960.

Hi Tom.
Reading from the Seventy four gun ship volume 1.
"The riders look very much like frames, Since they are shaped, worked and assembled in the same way. There are none at all in the after part of the hold; the width and thickness of the riders is the same as for the frames. They are cut away over the keelson and the thick-stuff at the floor-heads, but while they are being worked as much timber as possible is left in the middle to compensate for the amount cut away to accommodate the keelson.
Filling-pieces are placed in the air-strakes of the ceiling at the point where the riders run. The riders are assembled in the opposite manner to the frames, in the sense that the floor timbers,which is the after"slice" of the floor-riders. The role of the riders is to counteract the tendency of the frames to sag outwards. In out 74 the futtock-riders finish under the planking of the gundeck."
 
I hope this helps.
Regards Antony.

One of my issues with the foot to hold down the work from lifting was that it was just far too large and cumbersome, so I machined up a new one from Bronze and polished it I realized that i did not need it to be sprung like the original.
 

 
I wanted to be able to control  the area more tightly and might even make a couple of different feet
 

 

 
I am now able to cut a close edge all I need to do now is practice using the saw.
 
Michael

I ran into a little bit of trouble on the beam plan. The Revell foredeck did not place the mast in the same position as the deck beams I was planning. So I scanned the underside of the deck and superimposed the plan onto it. I then lined up the mast partners. I think this will work. I now have a pattern to make the beams and may even be able to do it off ship (i.e. no holes in the bulwark as previously planned) and can glue the beam structure to the lip on the Revell model. This plus stanchions should secure the structure to hold the rest of the build and rigging in place.
 

Actually I think it makes me slower. I have to think through things 5 times before trying - at least on my build. I have been slowed down a lot lately. Nice to hear from you. Thanks for checking in.
 
PS...anything new your way? Gonna' be hard to top that last one.
 
Dave

I built a mold to give the beams camber. I used the previous radius of an arc method to work out the curvature and secured it to a piece of oak. The straight 1/8" plastic was then clamped into the mold and heated in an oven (250 degrees) for 20-30 minutes and then allowed to cool in the mold. The center of the beams now have the correct camber. I do not like the way the camber tapers off toward the ends and will cut those pieces away using only the center. The method is reproducible and any number of parts can be made from the mold.
 
Dave
 

It has taken me a while to come up with a plan for the foredeck. I decided to follow the beam plan from the 1920's refit because it gave the most detail. The breast knees, carling, and mast partners should be straight forward. I still have some questions about the hanging knees and the dagger knees and will probably have to make them as I go so they fit structurally into the Revell kit. I will be making a mold for the beams to give the 1/8" square plastic the proper deck camber and will try to 'bake' the mold at 204 degrees to impart the shape. The gun lids will have to be re-rigged. I really don't like the current config anyway. I will also try to give the cross-cut middle deck planking a 'cut wood' look where they are exposed by this revision.
 
The clear plexiglas probably won't work but the beams and carling may be all that is needed to support the deck furniture once the structure is secured to stanchions on the gun deck.
 

Thank you, Bruce, for your nice words
 
First I decided to redo entrance to under deck space, mixing present look with nice detail from Lou's pictures.
 
Planking surface of entrabce was ... ok ... Interesting ...
 

 

 

 
Devil do not sleep, and I felt I'll get no peace tonight until I try to make compass
 
Today is obviously the day of mixed design, so my compas will be something between ...
 
Carved by hands from rounded wooden molding, and sanded until I died to get nice smoth "metal" surface
 
 

 
Still not finished

Carpenters of the days of Wooden Ships were well capable of making Gun Port Lids that fit, didn't need anything more that the taper or stair step type of seal to stop the Gun Port Lid from coming inboard more than the carpenters intended. Gun Port Stops, not gun port lid stops is the term used?  I have been looking on all models and replicas for anything that would protect the area around the Ports from damage from rolling the gun back into battery, the carriage or the wheels  need to be prevented from contacting the inside planking, matters not whether the gun is on a gun deck or quarterdeck, running the guns into battery at an angle or even square will do damage to the ship unless there is a sacrificial fender in place, I suspect that Gun Port Stops are those fenders and nothing to do with lids. Some gun carriages used a convex shape extending ahead of the carriage and wheels so the gun could be trained forward and aft using the convex part of the carriage to pivot around, that would keep the wheels from contacting the sides, but would still need something to protect the ship from damage from the convex end of the carriage. A lot of effort went into preventing damage to their ships and it rigging  that could be prevented by the use of frapping, bumpers, leather wear points,  etc., be out of character to allow the gun carriages and their wheels to cause preventable damage to the ship, Gun Port Stops perhaps.
jud

Carpenters of the days of Wooden Ships were well capable of making Gun Port Lids that fit, didn't need anything more that the taper or stair step type of seal to stop the Gun Port Lid from coming inboard more than the carpenters intended. Gun Port Stops, not gun port lid stops is the term used?  I have been looking on all models and replicas for anything that would protect the area around the Ports from damage from rolling the gun back into battery, the carriage or the wheels  need to be prevented from contacting the inside planking, matters not whether the gun is on a gun deck or quarterdeck, running the guns into battery at an angle or even square will do damage to the ship unless there is a sacrificial fender in place, I suspect that Gun Port Stops are those fenders and nothing to do with lids. Some gun carriages used a convex shape extending ahead of the carriage and wheels so the gun could be trained forward and aft using the convex part of the carriage to pivot around, that would keep the wheels from contacting the sides, but would still need something to protect the ship from damage from the convex end of the carriage. A lot of effort went into preventing damage to their ships and it rigging  that could be prevented by the use of frapping, bumpers, leather wear points,  etc., be out of character to allow the gun carriages and their wheels to cause preventable damage to the ship, Gun Port Stops perhaps.
jud

I sometimes grind down a (thick) nail to a razor sharp point and use it as a chisel. 

I'm slowly making my way through the Caldercraft kit and striking some minor and not so minor scale issues. Also the walnut is pretty scrappy as it tends to split. Apart from this the rest of the kit seems well thought out and the parts are of a good standard.
 
The minor scale issues involve not allowing for planking thickness on the bulkheads at the keel and parts of the plans and some lazer cut parts which if they are too big can be reduce but if too small then it's a kit bashing but all seem fixable if you stay alert and check the scale of everything step.
 
The major scale problem I have just discovered is that the main deck is short by 2 - 3feet @ 1:1 or 10 - 14mm @ 1:64. I initially thought just the forecastle was too long, but it appears that the quarterdeck is also equally too long (both by 5 - 7 mm of where they are drawn on the AOTS book and 1768 drafts, therefore making the main deck too short. It's too late for me to fix and it would mean moving the offending plywood frames forward and and aft by a ply frame thickness at the start, then extending the false maindeck ply to cover this gap. Seems whom ever drafted the kit plans drew these frames on the wrong side of the line?

Heads up!
 
A scale problem I have just discovered is that the main deck is short by 2 - 3feet @ 1:1 or 10 - 14mm @ 1:64. I initially thought just the forecastle was too long, but it appears that the quarterdeck is also equally too long (both by 5 - 7 mm of where they are drawn on the AOTS book and 1768 drafts, therefore making the main deck too short. It's too late for me to fix and it would mean moving the offending plywood frames forward and and aft by a ply frame thickness at the start, then extending the false maindeck ply to cover this gap. Seems whom ever drafted the kit plans drew these frames on the wrong side of the line?
 
Also some small repairable scale errors with some of the deck furniture which I'll try and document at a later date.

Thanks for the likes and comments guys.

Chris if there is anything you like then by all means use it your model. I usually work through a process of concept, research then trial and error. And after around 3 attempts at trial and error I usually settle on a solution I can live with which is by no means authoritative and probably a compromise due to my lack of ability, research, kit, budget and material restrictions. As part of this process I try and make everything so it works in practice on the kit like a proof of concept. This is all a big learning curve which I get a lot out of, but due to physical health restrictions can be difficult and exhaust me which is when I make lots of mistakes and have to try and pace myself. So I hope you don't copy any of my mistakes :-)

Robin I just went and took a peek and it is something I didn't research due to Caldercraft kit design and material restrictions. But a good topic. So just went with the kit on the wales which used 5x 3x1mm walnut strips which I filled, sanded and painted so you can't really tell which method I have used. However I am very impressed with Chris's wale and hull which I recommend you have a look at if you havn't already.

Ok Robin I found it thanks very interesting and looks to be at quite a larger scale than 1:64. If you look back over my log you will see I ran into problems with my first layer at the bow and due to this found this photo of the replica which follows the run of the frames which worked nicely for this kit. All the comments from those of us who have built the Endeavour bluff hull will tell you she's a baptism of fire.
 
Here's a link to the bow of the replica as she was being built which I took my lead from which I think will answer your question.
 
http://www.seacoastnh.com/endeavour/ph3.html

Actually, I wanted to continue with my SMS WESPE model, but run into some technical difficulties and then this project came my way ...
 
The complex manual machining of very small parts on a milling machine requires smooth and precise movements of the slides as well as small masses to be moved. The slides of a watchmakers lathe fulfill these requirements. In addition, work-pieces and tools should be visible very well during machining.
 
Milling machines such as the Aciere F1 (or the older F12) or Sixis 101 are ideal for working on small parts, but are still far too large for my workshop (and have a too big price tag ...). Interesting from a design point of view would be also jig-borer and milling-machines by SIP (Société Genevoise d'Instruments de Physique), but they are very rare and difficult to come by. All these machines are massive and heavily constructed in order minimise vibrations by their inertia during the machining of precision parts for watches and instruments – too massive for my small workshop.
 

Aciera F1 milling machine (Source: http://www.lathes.co.uk/aciera/)
 

Sixis 101 milling machine (Source: http://www.lathes.co.uk/sixis/)
 

SIP jig-borer and milling machine  (Quelle: http://www.lathes.co.uk/sip/)
 
A special feature of these machines is that the x-slide is not arranged horizontally under the milling spindle, but vertically in front of the main column. This permits the easy installation of a fourth and fifth machining axis.  However, this arrangement means that the movement in the y-axis is not effected by the cross-slide, but by the milling head. This in turn means that milling head and motor should ideally form a unit. A belt-drive is more difficult to arrange, because the angle between the pulleys changes, when the milling head moves along. The SIP jig-borer for these reason originally was driven through a flexible shaft.
A watchmakers lathe is a good starting point owing to the precision of the slides and spindles, but it lacks the z-axis. In more recent years kits became available to convert Chinese-made watchmakers lathes into small vertical milling machines, but the milling table on them is arranged in a conventional way.
 

Conversion of a modern Chinese watchmakers lathe into a vertical milling machine
 
In my stock of watchmakers lathe bits and pieces I have collected over the years parts for several D-bed lathes of variable state of conservation. Some ‘scrap’ was also bought on purpose. From this parts I now want to construct a micro-milling machine with as little work as possible.
As design specifications I decided that the mill should be able to machine in a space of u 20 mm x 20 mm x 20 mm. This requires movements along the x-, y-, and z-axes of around 40 mm. There should be a fourth axis with a 360° rotation, that should be able to rotated under load. This axis should also be able to be moved from the vertical into the horizontal (5th axis). All those movements should be realised with parts from watchmakers lathes, so that no dove-tail slides need to be machined from scratch.
The back-bone of the mill will be a special D-bed that I obtained recently. It was originally meant for the conversion of a lathe into a small precision pillar-drill. Its lower end is turned down to a diameter that fits into a lathe foot. The foot that I am going to use probably came from a British Pultra-lathe (http://www.lathes.co.uk/pultra/page8.html).
 

Column and foot
 
Another key part is an old and somewhat battered cross-slide from a Lorch, Schmidt & Co. D-bed lathe. This will be the x- and z-axis of the new milling machine.
 
Cross-slide from a D-bed watchmakers lathe
 
The y-axis will be constructed with the help of a nearly scrap lower-slide from the cross-slide of a Lorch, Schmidt & Co. WW-lathe that I was able to buy cheaply. The spindle and micrometer-dial will have to be made from scratch. A 6 mm-grinding spindle of unknown make will serve as milling spindle. This limits somewhat the maximum diameter of cutters that can be used to ones with about a 4 mm-shaft, but the machine is meant for light work after all. On the other hand, many years ago I made an adapter for 6 mm end-mill for use in the lathe together with a vertical slide (before I owned a milling machine).
 

Lower slide from a WW-lathe cross-slide and grinding spindle
 

Future arrangement for the y-axis of the micro-mill
 
The fourth and fifth axis will be formed by the dividing head that I made some years ago from a 6 mm-watchmakers lathe grinding-spindle. For the moment it will be simply screwed onto the cross-slide as for use with a lathe. This gives considerable flexibility for the positioning at any angle between vertical and horizontal. The setting will be a bit time-consuming and has to be done with templates.
 

Column, cross-slide and dividing head assembled
 

Column, cross-slide and dividing head assembled
 
So far the existing parts that need to be re-conditioned somewhat at a later point in time.
 
To be continued ...

For drilling holes change the caliper, install the pipe with an electric motor inside, and drill is all you need! For example, ship blocks.

I do understand perfectly what you're doing and why.   By saying that, I think I need to see Dr. Per also.

Still playin' arround
 
Testing piece
 

This has been crossing my mind so I looked it up. Thanks Jud for sharing this and emphasising the importance of reliable steering geer, as this tragic accident could have been much worse like you say. An importance that would have been quickly learned and well understood throughout the ages I imagine.
 
With this in mind it would seem even more likely that the Admiralty would have put every effort into making HM Bark Endeavour the most technologically reliable vessel in their fleet so she could perform her important mission which involved a 3 year voyage into uncharted waters that would take her and her crew weeks or months away from any known safe port.
 
So I'd imagine they would not have skimped when it came to the Bark's helm and therefore another reason that makes me think (unless information to the contrary comes to light) that the tiller sweep support is not part of the 1771 refit but an existing intregal part of the helm gear since atleast the Admiralty refit of 1768 if not from her date of build.
 
Something I will try and keep in mind while building my interpretation of the HMB Endeavour from 1768 whilst in the relative safety of my studio.
 
Thanks again for everyones input into this discussion which I'm learning a lot from.

Ships pivot around the head from rudder movement, it is the stern that swings, that trait saved my ship 'the Ammen' from being cut in two during a collision, just enough time to start the swing, so the other ship slid down our Port side.  19 July 1960, USS Ammen DD 527, killed 11 injured 25.
jud

Turn the wheel righty and the stern goes lefty, turn the wheel lefty and the stern goes righty, rudders on the wrong end of the boat! 
jud

Ships pivot around the head from rudder movement, it is the stern that swings, that trait saved my ship 'the Ammen' from being cut in two during a collision, just enough time to start the swing, so the other ship slid down our Port side.  19 July 1960, USS Ammen DD 527, killed 11 injured 25.
jud

Ships pivot around the head from rudder movement, it is the stern that swings, that trait saved my ship 'the Ammen' from being cut in two during a collision, just enough time to start the swing, so the other ship slid down our Port side.  19 July 1960, USS Ammen DD 527, killed 11 injured 25.
jud

Ships pivot around the head from rudder movement, it is the stern that swings, that trait saved my ship 'the Ammen' from being cut in two during a collision, just enough time to start the swing, so the other ship slid down our Port side.  19 July 1960, USS Ammen DD 527, killed 11 injured 25.
jud