Eddie

Hi,
 
I'm considering purchasing The Frigates of the Royal Navy Series THE NAIAD FRIGATE (38) 1797 Volume 1 and 2.
It looks like a great book but would like to know first how much detail is contained within the two.
How does it compare to the Anatomy of the Ship, the 24 Gun Frigate Pandora for example?
 
I am considering starting a 3D built of the Naiad with the eventual aim to built one using CNC and 3D printing myself.
Is the detail sufficient for that including the interior decks?
 
thank you for the help,
 
 
 

 

Well... I dare say that you build the ship full side using Ed's books and plans.
 
Here's the link to his build:  
 
A quick search shows other build logs using Ed's books and plans.

Thanks Popeye.
 
I found out that the interior floor was covered by an oiled canvas. First I had to remove the Jump Seats again, using Isopropyl alcohol.
 
I made the canvas up by taping a piece of fine-weave Egyptian cotton to a large flat plastic lid, painting it with thinned PVA glue which I let dry thoroughly. I turned the piece over and painted the other side and let it dry too. I could then easily trim the piece to fit with an Xacto knife. I used a wash of the thinned glue and a bead of normal thickness PVA on the two ends under the seats to hold it down. Fits beautifully :
 

 
Next job was to fit the roof sheeting. The kit supplied 1/16" x 1/2 " battens for this, but they were two pieces short (total of 4 the length of the roof) ! Not happy . Luckily I had plenty of spare Basswood strips left over from previous models, but only 1/4" wide so I had to do a lot more work than I should have. I stained the underside of it first :
 


The roof after trimming and sanding :
 

I've digressed a bit and made up some molding using my Byrnes table saw to cover the roof seam. The roof will be covered by a ""tarred" canvas, and I figured this would be the best way to finish it off :
 

 
 

I've also filled the seams on the end panels, and spot-primed any other bits that had sustained a bit of damage - I'll recoat the entire cabin when all is completed :

 
  Danny

Thanks Jond - I've been out of it for a while now, so it'll be nice to be back at the bench when my plate clears....have not even had much time to drop in on some of my favourites - including your massive Bluenose! Promise I will soon!
hamilton

Hi Hamilton
 
glad to see you back again and another schooner back on the boards.   
 
cheers 

A speedy build is never expected. I shall enjoy following. 
Steve

Of course - welcome aboard Steve - can't promise a speedy build........
hamilton

Hamilton, just went through your log. Enjoying it very much. Not the issues with the MS plans though. I shall join your audience. 
Steve

Thanks Mark & Per:
 
It is good to be back (even in such a small way....) Hope to be able to carve out some time also to check in on your work, too! 
hamilton

Hamilton,
That is so true.......
 
And looking forward to the progress of your Bluenose.
 

Nice to see you back at the bench Hamilton. Hope you get your templates to a satisfactory state soon so you can progress with the build.

Hamilton
 
I frequently used to stay in a seafront hotel on the west coast of the English Lake District. About 20 miles out to sea was a large island called the Isle of Man. One of the hotel owners favourite sayings was "If you can see the Isle of Man it's going to rain and if you can't see it it is raining".

Thanks for dropping by Keith - yes, there are so many things that can go wrong at this stage - distorted plans, shaky hands, bad cutting....I could (and do!) drive myself crazy checking things against as many sources as I can and I'll still find time to second guess myself and/or get it wrong!.....anyways, today I made my "good" templates - double checked against plan 1 and 2 of the MS sheets, and against my previously assembled keel to see if the error still showed up as prominently in this final template as it did on the rough ones I made last night - it did! I think I've made these templates at least 4 or 5 times - I really hope this is the last! I'd love to actually get started with this build!
 
Now I have to follow Grant's suggestion above to debond the keel parts already assembled. I'm not sure when I'll have a chance to cut the new keel pieces - as I've mentioned before I'm a dining room table modeller living in the Pacific Northwest and I have to do all my cutting out on the front patio and only when it's nice and dry - the rain has let up for a couple of days but it's supposed to come back tomorrow evening and through the week. There's a well-known Vancouver joke (though maybe it's shared by our neighbours in Washington State) - how do you know it's Monday in Vancouver? The rain stops.....anyway, I'll get the bandsaw out again soon enough....
hamilton

Hello Hamilton. I loved your description of your trials and tribulations with your plans. It reminded me of the issues I have encountered. In my case I had to deal with significant discontinuities / errors between adjacent bulkheads. Like you I had cut the plywood before discovering the problem. I have learned not to trust "professional" plans. Good luck.

Well, my last update to this topic was way back in October.....and my contributions to MSW in general have been pretty lax (the occasional brief comment or like)....above and beyond that the last time I spent any time modelling was back in December! Crazy!! I have not taken a break for this long since I started. But with Syren stalled at the beginnings of the gunport framing (to be picked up again soon) and with the weather improving, I thought I'd think to Bluenose once again.....
 
Tonight I made some new templates of the centre and foreward keel pieces from the MS drawings - two sets of templates were made - one from sheet one (which shows outlines of the laser cut parts) the other from sheet two (which shows sheer and plan views of the framework and planking). The templates were made quite quickly and were a bit rough - but they were really just meant to allow me to identify where my errors were in cutting the pieces the first time. My earlier guess ended up being right - there were two errors that compounded one another - first in the cutting of the forward piece and second in finessing the joint between the forward and centre pieces. Here's a photo showing the cumulative error:
 
 

 
And here's a closeup:
 

 
So as predicted it's back to the drawing board with the keel. I hope to do the debonding of the currently assembled pieces over the next few days - I'll then salvage the aft piece, make more careful templates of the centre and foreward, recut them and assemble the centre keel once again. Since I've already cut the bulkheads, I imagine that once this business gets done the framework will come together quickly. 
 
Bye for now
hamilton

Thanks Tim - welcome aboard! Hope you're a patient man! I have no dry-cleaning bag to put BN under, but at present, I have no keel, and no time or ability to cut a new one at the moment.....could be a long time before I strike this build up again....I have to do all my cutting outside and we're in the rainy season up here....waiting for a dry spell to make new keel pieces, and then onwards....
 
The good news is that I just got a wood shipment for this project and can proceed with some speed once the framework issues get sorted out....bye for now!
hamilton

Hello Hamilton -
This will be great!  Just found it.  I love Bluenose and some of the other (modern?) schooners.  Looks like you are preceding in your usual, careful, meticulous manner.  I know she will be beautiful.  I will sit back and watch.  Still haven't gotten America out from under the dry-cleaning bag.  Soon, soon.
- Tim

Thanks Jond - I imagine that a lot more work goes into people's models than often makes the log - I can think of a few notable exceptions here. I hope that my error can be of help to anyone going down this path in the future....
hamilton

Hamilton
 
I have yet to build many boats but I can assure you I make many parts over again. They don't all make the log though.... Today I took of the forward hatch roof off because it was just wrong.
 
good luck with making your fix
 
cheers

Lately it doesn't seem to work no matter how many times I measure and cut.  The part is still too short. 

Thanks very much Grant and Mark - fortunately there's a small hardware store just a block from my house! While the 5 minutes it will take to walk there won't cut too much into the time required for this fix, it will count for something! What's that saying? Measure once cut twice....? Wait, that doesn't sound right, does it....
hamilton

I think you made the right choice, Hamilton.  Yes, plans can give you misleading info.   
 
As Grant said, find the 90% or better stuff.  If it's not in the hardware store, look in the medical supply departments of some of the big box stores and/or pharmacies.  Down here, it's usually either at Wal-Mart or Target and just about every pharmacy.

Hamilton,
 
Some good news and a good decision! As far as debonding goes, DO NOT use water - it won't do your plywood any favours. Instead, use Isopropyl Alchohol. Either paint it into the joints, or soak a paper towel in it and clamp that along the joints for about 10 minutes. Depending on how much PVA you used, and how long it has been set, this should do the trick fairly easily. IF not, simply repeat until it does. As the alchohol evaporates fairly quickly, there is less chance of distorting the plywood.
 
If you are not familiar with Isospropyl Alchohol, it is sometimes sold as rubbing alchohol but we warned that it comes in diffenrent concentrates. Some of the rubbing alcohol is 50% water - you don't want that one. I get mine from the local hardware store and it is 90 or 99% alcohol commonly used for cleaning computer keyboards and the like.

Well I spent a bit of time this morning trouble-shooting and confirmed that there is both distortion on the plans (between the template sheet and the sheet showing the profile) and some bad cutting and shaping on my part - particularly the centre keel piece, though also the aft joint on the forward piece, where it attaches to the centre . The aft piece - which is where I initially noticed the problem - is actually fine - the drawings all line up and the part is cut with only very tiny discrepancies, easily solved with a sanding block and thin shims.
 
To begin with I made new templates from the profile drawing, which is where I noticed the issue with my keel as built. I then tested each of the new templates against both my keel and the template drawings. There was decent alignment between the new templates and the template drawings, except for the centre portion where there was some distortion - though I didn't think it was enough to produce the misalignment I had.
 
When placed against my keel, though, the issue became apparent. Here are some photos that clearly show the problems in the forward and centre keel pieces....
 

 

 

 

 

 
I think you can easily see where my mistakes are!!! They're very obvious! Hard to say where they came in - likely as I was making adjustments to the joints, though the discrepancies between the template and my part are really pretty "universal"....more care in the cutting process is clearly in order....
 
You can also see that the aft piece is fine as made.....this is the piece with the new templates from the profile drawing, which match the template drawings on the MS plans....
 

 

 
The good news is that I have enough 3/16" ply to cut 3 new parts - and of course it seems that I really only need to cut 2 new parts.....Anyway, I think I will go with the "hard route" described above and cut two new keel pieces - centre and forward. I'll de-bond the existing pieces and try to salvage the aft piece, knowing that I can cut another if necessary. The bad news is that I likely won't be able to get moving on this till we have a decent string of dry weather, which in the pacific northwest is unlikely to happen before the new year. Usually we get some warm dry weather in January, and if that's the case I'll haul out the bandsaw and cut the new pieces then....until then (or later!) I'm afraid this log will be on hiatus.....sigh....at least I have the Syren to work on! And I think I've learned a valuable lesson about using plans as references for scratch building - if you've got two reference points check them both!! 
 
hamilton
 

Thanks Brian - I am dealing with 3/16" ply, so I think I'll avoid soaking....in the other thread SpyGlass suggested steaming....I'm going to give that a shot a see what happens....Since at least one of the parts in question isn't cut properly it's hardly a loss.....
hamilton