Jump to content

Thanasis

Members
  • Posts

    635
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Reputation Activity

  1. Like
    Thanasis got a reaction from EricWilliamMarshall in Sail cringle holes with eyelet   
    Hi.
    How about these "cringles"...
    Thx

  2. Like
    Thanasis got a reaction from mtaylor in Sail cringle holes with eyelet   
    Hi.
    How about these "cringles"...
    Thx

  3. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Ron Burns in A change of pace - A grown man's fun with paper airplanes   
    Thought a few folks might be interested. I used to take great joy in building these. I am still trying to find a few more pics from years ago.












  4. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Gbmodeler in Fifie by Gbmodeler - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - Typical late 1800s Scottish Herring Drifter   
    I decided to try my hand at "clinker" (lapstrake) planking, since most of the historical photos of smaller (and older) fifies have that feature.  I have never attempted clinker planking before, but it seems easier than carvel planking, so far.  Also, the planks are being stained, rather that painted, for a more natural wood appearance.  Again, the wood is basswood cut from 1/32" sheet.  
     
    I find planking a slow process, but if it works well, it is very rewarding.  The hardest part of clinker planking is getting the ends near the stem and stern posts to transition from clinker to edge-matched carvel-like planking as the planks fit into the rabbet.  Fortunate for me, there is no real rabbet, as I will install the keel, stem post, and stern post after planking😬.


  5. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Gbmodeler in Fifie by Gbmodeler - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - Typical late 1800s Scottish Herring Drifter   
    Deck planks were made from 1/16" basswood sheet cut into 3mm wide strips.  The strips were lightly sanded and then stained with a mixture of India ink, isotropic alcohol, and water.  The stain goes on dark but dries to a "weathered wood" appearance.  The more you dilute the stain with water and alcohol the lighter the color, of course.  Trial and error finds the right mix you prefer.  The strips were then glued with white PA glue to some off-white cotton "business" paper.  I have also used black construction-paper in the past, but wanted to try something different, and a little thinner, this time.  The planks were cut off the paper and installed over the false deck, starting from the middle and working out toward the sides.
     

     
    The deck planks were stained prior to installing because the gluing process (with PA white glue) is very messy (at least the way I do it).  Even though I plan to sand and re-stain the deck, any residual glue would block the second application of stain and give an uneven finish...

     
    After sanding and shaping.  You can see almost all the original stain has been sanded off...

     
    The re-stained deck.  Now on to planking the hull!


     
  6. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Gbmodeler in Fifie by Gbmodeler - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - Typical late 1800s Scottish Herring Drifter   
    More building-up the frame today.  I added curved strips to the tops of the bulkheads to create camber for the deck.  Also installed walls for the hold and a foundation for the decking (i.e. a false deck).  The false deck is cardboard made from a repurposed cereal box.😬 
     

     

     

     

  7. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Gbmodeler in Fifie by Gbmodeler - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - Typical late 1800s Scottish Herring Drifter   
    Making progress by cutting out and assembling the false keel and bulkheads...
     
    Paper templates glued to 3/32" basswood plywood.  A "gap" in the false keel and some bulkheads will become the main hold.  Another gap will accommodate the fore (main) mast.  All the parts were cut out with a table scroll saw...



  8. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Gbmodeler in Fifie by Gbmodeler - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - Typical late 1800s Scottish Herring Drifter   
    I have been researching the famous Scottish Fifies, and am inspired to try building a model of a small to medium sized boat of 42-feet (12.8 meters).  
     
    Detailed information about these boats is hard to find.  Evidently, the real boats were mostly built by sight, without the help of plans or half-hull models, so there is not a lot of documentation to discover.  Most of the sources I did find focus on the large Fifies (60 to 80 feet loa) of the early 1900s.  However, from various historical photographs and writings, I am under the impression that smaller boats were more common-place during the late 1800s.
     
    In addition, there are very few surviving Fifies left in the world today.  One smaller boat, the "Isabella Fortuna," survives as a Scottish National Historic Ship.  She was built in 1890 and is 43 feet loa.  
     
    By using written descriptions, historical photographs, and the plans of larger boats, I have developed my own paper line-plans of what I think would be a typical boat in existence, circa 1870 - 1880.  Here are some of my sources:
     

  9. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Gbmodeler in Fifie by Gbmodeler - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - Typical late 1800s Scottish Herring Drifter   
    Cutting out templates for the bulkheads.  These will be glued with rubber cement to basswood plywood and cut our out using a power scroll saw...
     
     

  10. Like
    Thanasis reacted to wefalck in Fifie by Gbmodeler - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - Typical late 1800s Scottish Herring Drifter   
    Seems that you are not letting your slipway getting cold ...
  11. Like
    Thanasis got a reaction from mtaylor in Identify-name these rigs   
    Hi all. New information came up for the first photo of my initial post. 
    I really don't know how this photo mixed up with the older ones of my archive and feeling responsible for this mistake allow me to make the correction. 
    The photo shows a Gr type of hull known as "Trechantiri" while her rigging, as many mentioned, it's a "staysail schooner", non existence in Gr. traditional rigs though.
    That because the first owner of her was an English person who built the boat right after the ww2 in Greece, with the hull he liked but he rather found suitable to set the "staysail schooner" type as rigs. You might have heard the name of her which is "Strormie Seas".
    A photo of her in a magazine's cover in 1958.
     


    Thx and my apologies.
  12. Like
    Thanasis got a reaction from mtaylor in Identify-name these rigs   
    @Tony Hunt. As I wrote, these types of vessels-rigging were shown in North Aegean Sea at early of 20th century and I guess the photos were taken between 1912 and 1917, around Lemnos Island.
    By that time, Ottoman Empire had lost western territories as a result of the Balkan wars 1912-1913.
    So among others Gr islands of North Aegean Sea were set free and many of former Turkish vessels had come to Greeks.
    As the Navy officer H. M. Denham in his article "Aegean Caiques 1915-1980" (The Mariner's mirror) also writes, “the local shipping was heterogeneous in type of hull and rig".
    However, even by his own eyes ascertainment (he claims had visited Lemnos in 1915), he doesn't quote (naming) any kind of unusual rigging, but just staying describing the typical ones. In fact, the last photo in my first post, is from his article and been titled "Turkish Trehandiri-a very strange and rare rig. Mudros (Lemnos) 1915". (My comment, I doubt even for the hull as Trechantiri, because the shape of the bow).
      So what we see could be interventions and "patches" from Gr sailors, or remnants of an initial type of rigging, but I thought to give it a try, looking for a suitable name.
      Eventually, after also this discussion and realizing that it can't be given a name to all these motley riggings, I think I'll borrow the name of another vessel of that time, settee-rigged and no other info.
    That is "Savouradiko"* meaning in Gr, more or less, something no worth to deal with (discard-junks) 
    Many thanks 
     
    *It comes from Italian word of “zavorra” meaning the ballast of a ship, therefore something worthless.
  13. Like
    Thanasis got a reaction from Tony Hunt in Identify-name these rigs   
    @Tony Hunt. As I wrote, these types of vessels-rigging were shown in North Aegean Sea at early of 20th century and I guess the photos were taken between 1912 and 1917, around Lemnos Island.
    By that time, Ottoman Empire had lost western territories as a result of the Balkan wars 1912-1913.
    So among others Gr islands of North Aegean Sea were set free and many of former Turkish vessels had come to Greeks.
    As the Navy officer H. M. Denham in his article "Aegean Caiques 1915-1980" (The Mariner's mirror) also writes, “the local shipping was heterogeneous in type of hull and rig".
    However, even by his own eyes ascertainment (he claims had visited Lemnos in 1915), he doesn't quote (naming) any kind of unusual rigging, but just staying describing the typical ones. In fact, the last photo in my first post, is from his article and been titled "Turkish Trehandiri-a very strange and rare rig. Mudros (Lemnos) 1915". (My comment, I doubt even for the hull as Trechantiri, because the shape of the bow).
      So what we see could be interventions and "patches" from Gr sailors, or remnants of an initial type of rigging, but I thought to give it a try, looking for a suitable name.
      Eventually, after also this discussion and realizing that it can't be given a name to all these motley riggings, I think I'll borrow the name of another vessel of that time, settee-rigged and no other info.
    That is "Savouradiko"* meaning in Gr, more or less, something no worth to deal with (discard-junks) 
    Many thanks 
     
    *It comes from Italian word of “zavorra” meaning the ballast of a ship, therefore something worthless.
  14. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Harvey Golden in Identify-name these rigs   
    Well said.  We (as English speakers. . . and no doubt other tongues are guilty of this as well) tend to look for our own familiar and comfortable terms to describe things that are actually quite different or entirely misunderstood by ourselves.  I think this is a natural way of processing the new and unknown, but it is liable to folly and overlooking nuance. Perhaps the ideal-- not always attainable-- is to learn the native/local term,  to derive an accurate translation of the term, and to understand it's use and function.  Beyond this, we are really just throwing words around, no?
  15. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Bob Cleek in Identify-name these rigs   
    The terms and phrases "tall ships," "tall ships are coming," "tall ships 20##," and "tall ships challenge" are registered trademarks of The American Sail Training Association (ASTRA.) The term "tall ship" has been registered by ASTRA with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office since 1976. ASTRA reportedly charges 15 to 20 percent of the entire budget of an event to license the use of their "tall ships" trademark.
     
    Perhaps a savvy ship modeling club will trademark the term, "small ships" for use with its next model show!  
  16. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Roger Pellett in Identify-name these rigs   
    Sailing rig nomenclature is regionally dependent.  Names, like the rigs that they referred to were invented by those who used them, without reference to a nautical dictionary.  For example, can anyone explain what a “square rigged bugeye” is; or a “three sail bateau”?
     
    The term “Tall Ship” that I agree is meaningless was taken from John Masefield’s poem:  “I must go down to the sea again, to the lonely sea and the sky, and all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.”
  17. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Tony Hunt in Identify-name these rigs   
    Thank you Thanasis, that's very interesting.  For sure, the naming conventions for sailing vessels (especially small craft) are rocky waters to navigate. 🙂
     
    I get the impression that this is particularly true in the Mediterranean region.  The maritime history goes back thousands of years, there are so many different countries and languages involved, and numerous different shipbuilding and rigging traditions, all of which has led to an amazing number of different types of vessels that have mixed and evolved over the centuries.
     
    Adding to this confusion, at least for English-speaking people, is the strong habit in the English language of co-opting useful words from other languages, often changing their spelling (and sometimes their meaning!) in the process.  Across several hundred years of English mariners sailing the waters of the Med, I have little doubt that there has been a great deal of such cultural appropriation of nautical terms.  From the discussion above, this certainly seems to be the case with the term "Polacca" as an excellent example.  I've no doubt that Bob Cleek has the origin of the term correct with respect to the corsair ships of Murat Reis around 1600 or thereabouts.  However, by the early 1800s it looks like the term was being applied to an entirely different type of vessel with little regard for its original derivation, and by the 1840s it was even being used in the official registers of British shipping.
     
    All of which suggests that the only really correct answer would be to find out what the locals named these vessels.  Which leads me to ask where these photographs come from - are they Greek in origin?  
  18. Like
    Thanasis got a reaction from Tony Hunt in Identify-name these rigs   
    Thank you for your time and your valuable information.
    Too many answers to reply though, so allow me not to reply to each one of you…
    Starting from the term “Jackass-Rig”. There was also here (Gr) a similar term “mule” (or «bastard”) but it was referring to mix up hulls i.e. where a vessel was built with a different bow or stern from what it should be for its type…
    And although the “Jackass-Rig” seems convenient, it doesn’t give the picture or the actual rigging for each vessel.
     
    The term “Galiot” again is not referring to the rigs of a vessel but rather to the shape of hull not to mention me too, that there is also a confusion since I have met that, from nation to nation was also called “Fusta” and “Semi Galley”. At least for the Greeks, the term “Galiot” (Galiota) was used in a vessel similar to Chebeck, back in 1800.
     
    “Polacca-Polacre” (see also Pollaccone) yes it’s a rigging term, although it’s not certain whether refers to a two or three masts vessel with square or triangular sails. I think it was-is used for naming something close to that rigging and give a general idea to someone not familiar to the terms-names of other nations' use…That’s why in my model (Thanks Tony) I name the rigging as “a version of Polacra”.
    I would hardly accept this term for the vessel in photo no2, since to me looks like misset topsail Schooner or misset Bombarda…
     
    So about the term “Bombarda” and “Bombarda Sabatiera”. ”Bombarda” in Gr naval bibliography, is describing either the shape of the hull, or the type of the rigging which was two masts, with four square sail in front 2-3 staysails and a mainsail in aft.
    On the other hand “Bombarda Sabatiera” refers only to the type of rigging where in a type of hull (usually Bombarda and Trechantiri hulls) there are two masts with three square sails in front and a lug sail in aft.
     
    I must admit I didn't expect this interesting and the long discussion, but at least for me, it turns to be a good chance to refresh some of my knowledge…
     
    Thx
  19. Like
    Thanasis got a reaction from Bob Cleek in Identify-name these rigs   
    Thank you for your time and your valuable information.
    Too many answers to reply though, so allow me not to reply to each one of you…
    Starting from the term “Jackass-Rig”. There was also here (Gr) a similar term “mule” (or «bastard”) but it was referring to mix up hulls i.e. where a vessel was built with a different bow or stern from what it should be for its type…
    And although the “Jackass-Rig” seems convenient, it doesn’t give the picture or the actual rigging for each vessel.
     
    The term “Galiot” again is not referring to the rigs of a vessel but rather to the shape of hull not to mention me too, that there is also a confusion since I have met that, from nation to nation was also called “Fusta” and “Semi Galley”. At least for the Greeks, the term “Galiot” (Galiota) was used in a vessel similar to Chebeck, back in 1800.
     
    “Polacca-Polacre” (see also Pollaccone) yes it’s a rigging term, although it’s not certain whether refers to a two or three masts vessel with square or triangular sails. I think it was-is used for naming something close to that rigging and give a general idea to someone not familiar to the terms-names of other nations' use…That’s why in my model (Thanks Tony) I name the rigging as “a version of Polacra”.
    I would hardly accept this term for the vessel in photo no2, since to me looks like misset topsail Schooner or misset Bombarda…
     
    So about the term “Bombarda” and “Bombarda Sabatiera”. ”Bombarda” in Gr naval bibliography, is describing either the shape of the hull, or the type of the rigging which was two masts, with four square sail in front 2-3 staysails and a mainsail in aft.
    On the other hand “Bombarda Sabatiera” refers only to the type of rigging where in a type of hull (usually Bombarda and Trechantiri hulls) there are two masts with three square sails in front and a lug sail in aft.
     
    I must admit I didn't expect this interesting and the long discussion, but at least for me, it turns to be a good chance to refresh some of my knowledge…
     
    Thx
  20. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Tony Hunt in Identify-name these rigs   
    Yes, I think we're making progress here.  I suspect that, just like the "Galiot", the term polacca (in it's various spellings) was applied to some quite different rigs.  The ships of Murat Reis the younger may have been the origin of the name but he sailed a long time ago (1570-1641) so that usage has about a much currency as the Galiots! I think the term was applied much more widely over the following centuries.
     
    It's worth noting that David R MacGregor also provides a detailed review of the rig (he refers to it as a Poleacre) in pages 130-134 of Merchant Sailing Ships 1815-1850. In the early decades of the 19th century this rig was familiar (if not common) in England, presumably as a result of prizes being bought into the British mercantile fleet during the Napleonic wars.  The piece includes a photo of "Peter and Sarah" taken at Padstow in the 1850s, that appears to be the basis of the model pictured above.  It's clear from what he writes that poleacres, or polaccas, came as both brigs and brigantines, and these terms were for a time used somewhat interchangeably, at least in the official shipping records.
     
    Apparently the original research on these ships in English waters was done by Vernon Boyle and published in Vol 18 of the Mariners Mirror under the wonderful title "The Bideford Polackers".  So another spelling appears! 
  21. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Bob Cleek in Identify-name these rigs   
    This is fascinating. I'm learning something here. I think.
     
    Okay. I'm with you now. Sort of. To be fair, Underhill is describing a type of brigantine rig, called a polancca brigantine. I may be misunderstanding your comment, "hence the name," but I'll point out that the word "polacca" is Italian and means "Polish." It refers to "a Pole," i.e. being Polish, rather than to a "pole" as in a mast on a ship or a pole from which a flag flies. The adjective "polacca" referring to sail rigs originally referred to the sail rigs favored by the notorious Dutch-born Barbary pirate leader, Jan Janszoon van Haarlem, AKA Reis Mourad the Younger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Janszoon) whose ships carried combinations of lateen-rigged and a gaff-rigged sail on their masts. Holland was then part of the Habsburg Empire and Janzoon obtained a Letter of Marque from his native government. Thus, he flew Habsburg colors when attacking Habsburg enemies, but ran up Barbary States colors and preyed equally on Habsburg allies when the opportunity presented itself.  As a Dutchman by birth, he was captured by Ottomans, converted to Islam, and returned to his pirate trade as a Muslim.  The Habsburg Monarchy and the Poles were allied against the Ottoman Empire in the long-running Ottoman-Habsburg Wars, which may explain why Janzoon, known by a variety of aliases, including "John Barber," might have been given the nickname, "The Pole," although I can't say for sure that he was, but in any event, the distinctive lateen and gaff-rigged sail plans that struck terror in the hearts of European mariners came to be called "The Pole's sails," "Polish sails," or, in Italian, simply "Polacca" and Janzoon was well-known for his extensive use of what mariners came to call the pollaca sail plan. This was the origin of the adjective "polacca," referring to a sail plan employing both a lateen and a gaff sail on the same ship, as in "polacca brigantine" or "polancca" followed by whatever other type of rig it might be.  (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polacca) 
     
    Underhill's discussion of the type correctly notes there were innumerable "polacca" or "Polish" rigs combinations throughout the Mediterranean. What he seems to focus on, writing immediately following the Second World War as the type was waning, was the characteristic that the type carries yards which may "be raised and lowered like Venetian blinds," i.e. in which none of the yards are permanently attached to the mast. In such an arrangement, a fidded mast would certainly not be helpful.  So, yes, the polancca is characterized by an unfidded mast, but the term isn't referring to a "pole" (lower case "p.")  Obviously, a lateen sail's yard (or "antenna" in the original Latin and Italian) also requires a single "pole" mast because it is lowered "like a Venetian blind" and that's where the term originated. Essentially, a "polacca" rigged square sail is one attached to a yard which is hung on a mast in the same fashion as a lateen sail's yard is hung on its mast and may be lowered "like a Venetian blind." And there you have it. 
     
    From my reading of pages 70-72 of Underhill's Deepwater Sail, I must say he does provide a much better explanation of the mechanical meaning of "polacca" than I've seen elsewhere, but it needs be noted that he uses the term "polacca" in distinguishing it as a method of rigging yards, be they square yards or antennae and uses it as an adjective, just as the same word in English, "Polish," is an adjective, to describe, what in the instance he cites, is, was, and always will be a brigantine, as in the phrase he uses: "polacca brigantine." 
     
    Note also that the NMM's description of the "polacca" pictured above repeatedly refers to that model in the British usage as a "brig" and reverts to referring to it in "shorthand' as a "polacca" instead of "polacca brig." The model is not, in American English nomenclature, at least, a "brig," because in American usage a brig is defined by having square sails on both its fore and main masts. A brigantine carries only square-sails on its foremast (no boomed fore and after sails on the foremast,) and a gaff-rigged mainsail on it's mainmast. (Square sails may also be carried on a brigantine's mainmast, most commonly when encountered it's a single topsail, but that is not are not definitive of the brigantine rig in American English.)   
     
    With a nod to your citation to Underhill, I'll amend my answer to say #2 appears to be a polacca brigantine in American English nomenclature and, apparently, a polacca brig in British English usage.  
     
     

     
     
    "Sail plan for a Polacca, first built by the Barbary pirates around the 16th century, many scholars believe the Polacca was extensively used by Jan Janszoon."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Janszoon#/media/File:Sail_plan_xebec.svg
  22. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Tony Hunt in Identify-name these rigs   
    Well, I'll again refer to Underhill. Pages 70-72 of Deepwater Sail describes a Mediterranean rig he refers to as a Polacca brigantine, a distinguishing feature of which was that it the square rig was carried on a pole mast (hence the name) with no tops or cross trees.  There is a model of one in the Royal (National) Maritime Museum at Greenwich, see below, interesting that it is a British-registered vessel. 
        SLR 0662   Scale: 1:48? A modern exhibition style waterline model of the merchant brig ‘Peter & Sarah’ (circa 1809) built plank on frame and fully rigged with sails set. This model is complete with scale figures and represents a typical merchant trading brig of the early nineteenth century of about 47 tons gross. The rig is known as a ‘polacca’ where the foremast is a single ‘pole’ spar as opposed the traditional two part upper and lower sectioned type, and the fore course is rigged to a boom rather than loose footed. The ‘Peter & Sarah’ was registered at Bideford, Devon and traded in general cargo around most of the major ports in the British Isles, including pilchards from Newquay to the Mediterranean.  
    Doesn't look like a stretch to me. 😀
     

     
    The resemblance to Thanasis's lovely model of a "Polacra" is striking, too.
     
     
    Aldo Cherini's website looks wonderful, thanks for the link. Hours of detour coming up!
  23. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Bob Cleek in Identify-name these rigs   
    I've never known the presence of a fidded mast to distinguish a type of rig. "To fid or not to fid" depends simply upon the length of the mast and the length of the available tree the mast is made of, so to speak. 
     
    Polacre, or polacca, roughly translated means "Pollock" or "from Poland." (I have no idea if that was a term suggesting that they were indeed from Poland or a 17th century ethnic slur. Goodness knows, I don't want to offend any Poles or persons of Polish descent or be accused of posting "Polish jokes.") They were generally three-masted vessels carrying lateen sails on their foremast and mizzenmast, similar to a xebec, and square sails on their mainmasts, though not always. Some carried two masts and some carried no lateen sails at all. Suffice it to say, it would be really stretching it to call a vessel as pictured in photo #2 a polacre or polacca.
     

    https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/NBM/slides/orig_Polacca.html
     
     
    Truth be told, the closest I've been able to come to any identification of the vessel depicted in #2 is actually an 18th to 19th century Royal Navy bomb ketch, except that the bomb ketch is generally a larger vessel than #2 appears to be, a bomb ketch's mainmast would be stepped farther aft, halfway between the stem and stern, and the general derelict appearance (note the sails) of #2 sure doesn't suggest she's in active naval service. She could have been "sold out," but it's hard to see that there'd be much civilian use to be gotten out of bomb ketch. 
     

    https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/NBP/slides/orig_Bombarda.html
     
    I'll recommend Aldo Cherini's website of Mediterranean vessel ethnography from which the above drawings came... if you want to risk getting detoured for several hours in an incredible "dump" of Italian nautical trivia!   https://www.cherini.eu/ and  https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/NBM/ and https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/BEU/index.html
     
     
     
  24. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Tony Hunt in Identify-name these rigs   
    For sure, galiot is a term that was applied to many ship types, not an uncommon thing.  However, I'm not convinced that the term jackass-rig is really applicable - as John notes, these are Mediterranean rigs and therefore may well have their own, quite specific names.
     
    Re #2, unfortunately the foresail is masking the transition from lower mast to topmast. In the photo it looks like they don't quite align implying the topmast is fidded, but that may just be an optical illusion.  My point being, that if it is a pole mast then perhaps this is an example of the rig referred to in the Med as a polacre (or polacca) - a bit like the lovely model of Bombarda Sabatiera by Thanasis?  Intriguingly, it looks like there is another example in the left background of picture #3, which to be fair looks more brigantine-like to me. At the very least it appears to have a topgallant!
  25. Like
    Thanasis reacted to Bob Cleek in Identify-name these rigs   
    Indeed the rigged galiot, sometimes-spelled "galiote," model does at first glance appear to carry the same rig as photo #2, but, critically, I believe, photo #2 does not carry a boomed fore and aft sail on the forward mast.  It's "Mediterranean-appearing" hull is no contraindication because, according to one sometimes accurate source, the term "galiot" was used to describe a variety of hull and use-distinguised types of vessel in the 16th through 19th centuries, most notably a "half-galley" with two masts, often lateen-rigged and also propelled with oars in the Mediterranean area in the 16th through 17th centuries, as well as a type of Dutch and German vessel similar to a ketch with rounded ends like a fluyt (as appears to the be case in the picture posted above) in the North Sea in the 17th through 19th centuries, a type of French naval vessel in the 17th through 19th centuries which was distinguished by carrying lateen-rigged sails and a bank of oars as did the earlier "half-galley" galiot, although in some instances with but one mast, a type of horse-drawn canal barge called a "galiote" in France from the mid-17th century through the 19th century, or a localized French flat-bottomed river barge with some sort of simple sail rig used to transport wine in the Anjou region during the same period.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galiot
     
    In other words, it does not appear that the term "galiot" was ever used to specifically describe a rig, but rather was used to describe a variety of vessel, rather than rig, types.
     
    The term "galiot" or "galiote" seems to have been more descriptive of the purpose of the vessel than its rig. Indeed, it seems to have been used to designate lateen-rigged oared galleys as much as anything else. The rigs of the various vessels called "galiots" or "galiotes" seem to be of wide variety, as do both the shapes of their hulls and the uses to which they were put.
     
    Dutch galiot of 1740:
     

     
    https://www.modelships.de/Dutch_Galiot/Dutch_Galiot.htm
     
    Contemporary painting: "A Spanish xebec (center) attacked by two Algerian galiotes" (1738)
     

     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galiot#/media/File:DonAntonioBarcelóConSuJabequeCorreoRindeADosGaleotasArgelinas.jpg
     
    "A Dutch galiot from Willaumez's Dictionnaire de la Marine in the 17th century."
     

     
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galiot#/media/File:Galiote.jpg
     
    "A galiote, or scute, transporting wine on a French river during the 18th century."
     

     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galiot#/media/File:Scute_transportant_du_vin_sur_la_Loire_XVIIIe_s.jpg
     
    The "A Dutch galiot from Willaumez's Dictionnaire de la Marine in the 17th century." and the German-flagged model vessel pictured in the preceeding post carry the same rig, but perhaps on hulls of varying degrees of refinement, although that's hard to ascertain certainly from the pictures. That said, the vessel #2 in the originally post, distinctively unlike these two, does not carry a boomed fore and aft sail on its forward mast. For this reason, and especially as well as because the term "Galiot" does not appear to have been in use for similar vessels (i.e. other than canal barges) beyond the mid-1700's, while rig #2 is a photograph of a vessel necessarily taken almost certainly over a hundred years later, at least, I'm sticking with the label, "brigantine."
     
    In any event, the term "jackass rig" is certainly often appropriate where rig deviations from generally common arrangements occur. For many years, I owned a J. Laurent Giles Vertue sailboat which somewhat uniquely was rigged with a masthead stay from which could be flown a masthead jib as well as a two-thirds staysail, both tacked at the stemhead.
     

     
    While the designer called it a "sloop," others called it a "cutter," and still others called the unusual rig a "slutter." Go figure!  
×
×
  • Create New...