druxey

Welcome aboard! Check the 'Important Ship Model Club News' area on this site: Model Shipwrights of Niagara. The meetings are online as well as in-person.

Welcome aboard! Check the 'Important Ship Model Club News' area on this site: Model Shipwrights of Niagara. The meetings are online as well as in-person.

I think either way will work.

Slight rounding of all corners on a boat are appropriate.
 
You are dong a very nice job on the model so far.

Hello all:
 
I am a relatively new wooden ship builder (and an experienced plastic model builder). 
 
Currently working on MSY's 18thC Longboat and Victory Models' HM Bomb Vessel Granado. 
 
looking forward to connecting with builders in Canada as well as anyone who has built - or is building - Granado. 

I worked in two different barge and river boat yards in Pennsylvania and Kentucky and in both we launched everything sideways.   We did have one disaster when one of the four restraining systems was not released to allow the vessel to slide down the ramp so it turned and went off the greased rails.   What a mess that was.   
Allan

The diorama and a beautiful painting are really nice examples, Allan.
 

I turned my chair 180 degrees and picked up the book.  The step by step illustrations are really impressive. Thanks for recommendations, Mark P.
 

I can't imagine how the Great Britain was launched sideways.

In the 18th century British lexicon, railings at the ends of decks were referred to as 'breastwork'.

Nice idea, SHJ, but no! The beams below the stachions and rail at the ends of forecastle and quarter deck were called the breast beams.

And check out the reef points!

Slight rounding of all corners on a boat are appropriate.
 
You are dong a very nice job on the model so far.

Nice idea, SHJ, but no! The beams below the stachions and rail at the ends of forecastle and quarter deck were called the breast beams.

In the 18th century British lexicon, railings at the ends of decks were referred to as 'breastwork'.

Here we go on the next build the Sailing Pram. This is my second ship build. So far I am up to cleaning up the outside of the hull. I figured it was a good place to get the log started, plus I have some questions.
 
This kit certainly has you up your game. You've got keep a close eye on many things for it to stay true. 
 
Let's start with a picture of the transom. I was a little mixed up because the knee on the aft transom reaches higher up than it does in the photos. I checked some build logs and they matched mine so I moved on.
 

 
Getting everything cleaned up and ready to plank. I didn't have a lot of confidence in the the frames staying square so I added some supports. The transom mount on the base also allowed it to rotate a little so I added the other support you see in the front right of the photo. I don't have a photo of it but drilling the hole in the bow transom knee went well. I started a little smaller and slowly. It came out clean but it's just a tiny bit off center. Darn close though, I'm happy with it.
 

 
 
Lining up the center plank.
 

 
Cutting the sloping rabbet on the back of the plank for the fit at the transom. That was an exercise for sure. Tried many methods, files, sandpaper, finally resorted to more or less "shaving" off the bevel with a sharp #11 blade. And the instructions say 1/3 of the thickness of the board, Hahaha. I went a little deeper because of the overhang, no point in the end being 1/3 deep if it gets trimmed off and farther back it's not quite as deep. That's why it's a little deeper. They did improve the more I did!
 

 
 
Somehow when sanding the bevel on the aft transom I lowered the height of the notch at the center so after the center plank was attached the transom knee was hanging in the air. I added a sliver of wood underneath neat after tracing the shape of the spare transom knee they provided. It should look ok after some cleaning up.
 

 
 
Planking...
 
My notes on planking. This boat planks up slowly. Getting the planks where they are supposed to go and keeping the hull flat on the forms and the transoms level with the board is a bunch to pay attention to. At least with me, once I've got something clamped up, I'm temped to start bending the other side. DON'T do it. Once you get it set and good. Leave it alone to dry, don't risk twisting it or lowering the joint on the transom etc. The Dory was different from this one as it was getting glued to the forms, so the farther you went, the stronger it got. This hull is only relying on that bevel glued to the next plank to hold together. As you move up it tries to lift off of the frames, keep checking underneath to make sure it's still seated on the forms. So take your time and be patient. Let it dry before removing rubber bands and clamps.
That also brings up the point of make sure your bevels make good joints. Dry fit the planks and use a straight edge on the forms to see how well the bevel matches up and clean it up accordingly.
 

 
 
Here's a note for anyone starting this build. After I removed the hull from the frame I noticed char on the inside. I was pretty sure I had cleaned up most of the char and then I realized it was transferred from the frames. So sand that char off also just be careful not the change the shape. It will save you the hassle of cleaning it up later.
There was also some light dents from holding it on the frames that I'm taking care of with a little water.
 

 
Here is the outside of the hull getting some sanding. I'm pretty happy with the spacing and true-ness of it all. The joints at the transom are not too bad. I'd love to hear opinions and constructive criticism on how to make things better.
 

 
 
Some final questions.-- How should the edges of the planks on the bottom be handled? Should they be left square or rounded over? 
 
The instructions mention that sometimes the skeg has a protective brass cover on it. I think that could look nice. Can anyone direct me to on details on that?
 
Thanks for any help and suggestions!

Chris
 
 

I have an identical tack hammer. It is circa 1940 and was my father's. I still love using it; perfect heft and balance. But we digress.

Mark,
Your reference book recommendation is excellent and I was about to recommend it .

Good Evening Masa;
 
In the Eighteenth century most ships of any size were built or repaired in a dry dock. An existing ship would be floated in on a high tide, and as the water receded, the hull would be propped up with a large number of shores, whilst her keel would settle on a line of timber blocks. The base of the dock sloped towards the river, both to allow the water to drain away thoroughly, and to facilitate launching on a slipway. Once the dock was empty, a pair of gates would be shut across the entrance to keep the water out. In earlier periods, the dock would be closed with a bank of clay and stones. 
 
The floor of the dock was made of stout timbers, called the 'ways' which were set in like railway sleepers. The blocks to support the keel, and the shores, would be nailed to these ways to prevent them moving.
 
A new built ship could be launched by opening the gates and allowing the dock to fill with water; this was best done with extra high tides. On the other hand, if there was no high tide soon, the ship could be launched  down the ways; this was done by setting down timbers like a railway track, called a slipway, running into the water. The ship was fitted with launching cradles at the bow and stern, which sat on the slipway, and the blocks under the keel were knocked away. The ways were well-greased. Sometimes the ship would slide down the ways easily, other times she needed a good pull to get her moving. 
 
The book 'Building the Wooden Fighting Ship', by James Dodds and James Moore, describes the build process in detail, with a large number of hand-drawn, good quality illustrations, and also covers the launch. There are several models of ship on the ways ready to launch, including the well-known model of the Bellona, and the Victory of 1765. 
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

 
 

In the 18th century British lexicon, railings at the ends of decks were referred to as 'breastwork'.

Even dry docks would need a slight slope for drainage, would they not?

In the 18th century British lexicon, railings at the ends of decks were referred to as 'breastwork'.

Thank you for the detailed explanations, Andy. The launch procedure is more complex than I thought. It is really interesting that dock workers remove stable wooden logs and insert slipways one by one, like a jenga game. Also, the method of draining water using terrain is really clever.
 
Because of the special equipment, such as slipways and launch cradles, I'm not ready to build launching ceremony dioramas. I'll keep it on my bucket list and collect more data for future building... Thanks so much!

It’s important to distinguish the difference between a build ways and a drydock. A build way is typically sloped to the water’s edge, and while the ship is built, it doesn’t actually rest on the slipway until just before launching.
 
A drydock is constructed below the level of the water, and does have a flat bottom. It might have some sloped drainage towards the centerline, or to wherever the drain valves are located. Where pumps are not available, drydocks can make use of natural topography to fill and empty. For example, by locating the dock some ways up a river, after closing the gate, the water can be drained to sea level (helps also to do the draining when the sea is at low tide). There is a drydock in Port Weller, Ontario, that is located above the first lock in the Welland canal. It doesn’t use pumps at all. The water is allowed to drain down the 40’ drop into Lake Ontario. 
 
Things haven’t changed too drastically over time so some pre-modern ship launching techniques are similar. Prior to  launching, the slipways (usually a pair of flat beams laid astride the keel (you can see these in the picture of the shipyard model you posted), are well greased with tallow or other lubricants. A pair of special launch cradles are constructed fore and aft. These cradles will bear the weight and balance of the ship when it comes time for the launching. These will slide down the slipway, but are held static by a series of chocks and braces. Once the launch cradles are built and braced in position, the ship is then slowly lowered from its build staging (usually by knocking out the keel blocks) onto to the launch cradles. Any remaining staging is removed, and when the time comes for launching, the chocks are knocked out and the cradles (with the ship) slide down the ways into the water. Typically hawsers or anchor cables are used to arrest the movement of the ship once waterborne.
 
Hope that helps.
 
Andy

In the 18th century British lexicon, railings at the ends of decks were referred to as 'breastwork'.

Even dry docks would need a slight slope for drainage, would they not?

I have a question about 18th century shipyard docks. According to the video's beginning, the shipyard's bottom is flat and wide. The keel is on the wooden logs like a railway. I'm curious how did 18th century sailing ships, like the HMS Alert, get balance when she was launched.
 


( Source : https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-68861 )
 
 
I researched some contemporary dry dock dioramas, and they shows several characteristics of dry docks in 18th century.
 
1) Some dry docks had water gates, so the gates are opened when the ships were ready. It is identical to modern shipyard.
2) Some dry docks had sloped bottom. As a result, the ships were on uneven ground.
3) The outside of the dry docks were connected to 'railway'. It is really amazing how the ships were safely balanced when she was moving on the wooden logs and railway before ceremonial launching day.
 

( Source : https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-68110 )
 
4) In the Chatham dockyard diorama, all the dry docks had flat and solid wooden bottoms. It is very similar to the modern shipyards.
 

It looks like magic that completed ships on the wooden log rails were smoothly launched without any rollover accidents.
 
Summary
- In the 18th century, were all dry docks for large sailing ships flat?
- Were the wooden logs sufficient to launch the big sailing ships without water? Did workers replace the wooden logs with rail before launching?
- Why didn't dockyard place completed wooden rails when she was laid down?
- Were there any launching accidents in the century? I remember the HMS Formidable's case.
 
 
I think this question is a big chunk to digest at once. Could you recommend any reference books or guides to explain launching the big sailing ships?