druxey

A nice rendering of Verne's original!

Both those weathered looks seem fine on camera, even if the first was unintended!

If a contemporary source says that the post had 2ft of rake, then the outer (after) face (the one the rudder follows) would be 2ft further aft at its top end than at its bottom end. That's what the wording would have meant to any shipwright.
 
There is, however, some uncertainty in just where the top and bottom were defined. The bottom was probably where the after face of the post met the upper surface of the keel, though it might be the projection down to the baseline (lower surface of keel), to the garboard rabbet in the keel or to somewhere else.
 
The upper end could be where the post disappears into the planking of the counter, where the physical piece reaches its top or a projection form there up to the deck. I don't know what was normal practice at the time, nor even whether there was any agreement between shipwrights and/or yards.
 
I'll not be dogmatic for a particular ship but it was normal for a post to be wider (fore-and-aft) where it met the keel than at its head, in part to compensate for having to be thinner (starboard-to-port) at the keel, where the planks draw close together. Thus the inboard face of the post (not usually visible in a model) was typically angled more than the rake of the outboard face.
 
Hope that helps!
 
Trevor

Thanks for linking that vid. I had completely forgot about that one.
 
I have some good news. The pins I ordered from the UK worked. They're Amati, I'll post a pic of the package for any future victims of Model Expo. I got the nails installed on the stays; finished and installed the rudder. I was able to hold true to the prototype and instructions by completing the pintles as described.
 
It was fun fitting the nails, but I can't say I had fun fiddling with the CA and getting it on my fingers every few seconds - the gobs that come out, even with my 'precision tip' are far too large. I'm thinking there are better options out there than the gorilla glue tips for such ultra fine detail. I found the idea of using pipettes, which I'll try. It also looks like BSI has some precision tips. Something to experiment with in the future - I'd love to hear comments from the wise ones here. Also, if there's a trick to keep away, reduce or clean up the white powder CA leaves behind.
 
I'm very happy that I managed to keep the rudder as a working, and removeable part. I didn't bother marking out the transom for the gudgeons as instructed. I simply glued both on at the same time while hinged to the rudder. The bottom one ended up slightly crooked but it worked well enough and ensured the rudder was installed straight.
 

 
Filed the rudder down a bit to seat the pintle closer. However I wouldn't advise doing this since there isn't a lot of room to work with and you could end up binding the hinges when fully assembled.
 

 
Here are the nails I used:
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
I haven't glued the base together yet, but it's shaped, and yes, my incredibly small workspace needs a cleaning up.
 

 
Thanks for looking
Matt

While the jig solves one problem, it creates another - that of making the throat and end seizings 'in the air'.
 
I use a jig simply to mark the underside of the line where it wraps around the deadeye. After removing the shroud or shroud pair, I can hold things using third hands while applying the seizings. Then I pop a deadeye into the bight (the line has sufficient stretch to do this) and reinstall the shroud over the masthead.

While the jig solves one problem, it creates another - that of making the throat and end seizings 'in the air'.
 
I use a jig simply to mark the underside of the line where it wraps around the deadeye. After removing the shroud or shroud pair, I can hold things using third hands while applying the seizings. Then I pop a deadeye into the bight (the line has sufficient stretch to do this) and reinstall the shroud over the masthead.

Here's a jig that can be made out of heavy card or aircraft ply. It's not my design but solves the spacing problem between the deadeyes.

 

Being considered, by some, McKay's only true *Extreme* design. Staghound, was indeed a sleek model. Compared to the more robust design of his last clipper....Glory of the Seas.
During this finalizing time of her hull creation....I'm relying heavily upon the images of her Cornelius half model...to bring her into compliance, as best as I can.  Noting one slight issue I have found...between the McLean description and the Cornelius half model.  It is the 7ft overhang of her aft poop.  The model depicts this measurement slightly longer than the description.....requiring some creative decision making.  She was 5ft taller forward then aft, as well...so this needs to accounted for in the sheer of her rail.
Currently, I am cutting in her stem and cutwater....this can be tricky.  Following the Cornelius model as best I can and still incorporating the McKay *hood*.
 
Rob

As a footnote to Trevor's contributions, Humphries took off the lines of South Carolina, ex L'Indien in 1782. She had been a French design built in Amsterdam. She was heavily armed with 28 39-pounders (continental guns) on a single gun deck. She was extermely fine below water, fore and aft - more clipper-like than a heavily armed warship. As a result, by the time she reached Philadelphia, she had hogged 'amaisingly' (Humphrey's own note). However, she was the prototype for Humphrey's heavy frigates and, noting this deficiency, as well as the extreme sheer of her decks, he built in preventative measures including early diagonal riders.

These are the last photos I’ll post for this one until I finish my aftermarket wheels and tires.

As a footnote to Trevor's contributions, Humphries took off the lines of South Carolina, ex L'Indien in 1782. She had been a French design built in Amsterdam. She was heavily armed with 28 39-pounders (continental guns) on a single gun deck. She was extermely fine below water, fore and aft - more clipper-like than a heavily armed warship. As a result, by the time she reached Philadelphia, she had hogged 'amaisingly' (Humphrey's own note). However, she was the prototype for Humphrey's heavy frigates and, noting this deficiency, as well as the extreme sheer of her decks, he built in preventative measures including early diagonal riders.

Diagonal bracing was normal for large ships with high length:beam ratios by the time McKay was active.
 
Humphreys' use of diagonal riders was cutting-edge in the 1790s but Seppings took the idea much further and, by the time he published his full account (1814, if I remember correctly), his line-of-battleships had extensive diagonal bracing, not only as riders but between the deck beams etc. His system could not be applied in frigates, nor merchant ships, as the riders took up too much space in the hold. The alternative was diagonal iron strapping, initially on the inboard face of the frames, later set between the frames and the outer planking. Adaptations of that approach were essential in the big wooden paddlesteamers built from the 1830s on (the biggest of them built for the Atlantic crossing, of course) as they had to bear the stresses of having the weight of engine and boilers localized amidships, as well as their regularly butting into head seas, which is infrequent for a sailing ship. Fast forward to Cutty Sark and similar diagonal strapping is riveted to her iron frames, under her planking. The idea only went out when riveted iron, the later steel, removed the need for separate diagonal braces.
 
Back around 1990, I did a survey of a fragment of the hull of Humboldt (lost while entering Halifax in 1853) and got an intimate acquaintance with the details of her bracing!
 
There's a rarely-told side to the development of the clipper-ship in the aspects that were drawn from paddlesteamer design. That tends to get lost as some authors want to write about the advent of steam, while others look at the perfection of sail, with the cross-links ignored. (Though I note that one of MacLean's comments that you have quoted goes to some pains to insist that McKay's clipper bow was not the same form as the steamers had!)
 
Trevor

With all due respect, I would use epoxy for metal/wood or metal/metal joints (if not soldering), rather than CA.

Thanks Druxey, on both counts! Good to be back at it...

Flag work aside, and with all the main detail work done, I finally made some progress on rigging. 







 

Hi all, I have been following this discussion with great interest and learning a lot in the process.  While not an American design, I offer (in the interest of further discussion) a design by one of the pre-eminent RN naval architects (for steam vessels  - Master Shipwright HM Dockyard Pembroke) at the time, Oliver W Lang, in 1854.  Lang designed the hull for HMCSS Victoria (1855) straight off the drawing board - No half hull model.  Now the builder (Young, son and Magnay of Limehouse, London) may have built one later, but in the copious correspondence around the build of this vessel, a half hull is not mentioned at all, not even inferred. I am very confident about this as Lang, and the ship build superintendent, Commander Lockyer, RN, were in constant communication, and there is definitely no mention of a half model. In support of this, the design changed a couple of times (the vessel grew bigger) to accommodate all of the roles, and latest equipment,  she was intended to perform for the Colony of Victoria.  Unfortunately, I cannot post a copy of the plan here due to restrictions placed on me by the owner of the only surviving plan (Sheer Drawing) of the vessel.
 
The design was based on, and is very similar to, the Gun Dispatch Vessel (Arrow and Vigilant Classes) of the time, but had completely different proportions, and encompassed a clipper like (Aberdeen) bow, much different to the other RN designs.  She was also significantly different to RN vessels in being built on the diagonal planking system (Not the Sepping's diagonal bracing) which was generally not used in the RN (due to cost). The very few vessels that were built on this principle, were renowned for their quality and hull strength. A quick scan of my (stalled) build log will provide and idea of her design.  She was built as an armed vessel using combined merchant and RN standards, but outfitted to Vice-Regal standards internally, and was minimum manned.
 
The real point being, she was a 'paper' only deign. She proved to be a very sound and fast vessel, her hull being reported as sound as the day she was built when she was dismantled in the 1880s. Her top speed is reported as  13+ knots , and she is also reported to have been a very good sea keeper, and a relatively dry vessel (her bulwarks were only 2' 9" high). She held the trans-Tasman (Sydney to NZ) record for some time, and that crossing can be treacherous.
 
Let the cannon balls fly
 
cheers
 
Pat

Congrats on your early ambulation as well as the success of the surgery, Bruce. Also on your progress with the model.

Greetings everyone, and for those who sent good thoughts for my new knee, thank you very much!
The Cori-Robotic surgery was very successful, the full replacement took only 90 minutes and I had a spinal anesthetic, not a general. 4 hours later the feeling came back and they got me up on my pins and taking my first steps! I was in overnight to make sure everything was ok, then I walked out using only the cane! After a week I ditched the cane and was back walking the dog, about 1000 steps per day.
The improvement is ongoing, and my second knee is scheduled for June 4!
I have been able to negotiate the basement stairs for about a week now so I have been back at the St. Roch, working mainly on the steering linkages.
 
The first two pictures are the alleyways either side of the deckhouse... I added the steps up to the doors and the covers for the steering chains. There are shackles under the covers connecting the chain from the steering wheel gypsy to the steel cables running aft. I used .015 diameter black thread to simulate 3/4" wire rope. I scratch built the four cable pulleys from styrene.

Next I followed the original ship's plans to make the rudder bearing, which is bolted to the hull just forward of the rudder well. The bearing halves clamp the rudder post. The two steering cables are just set out of the way using the aft cleats.

I have started making the rudder quadrant, as seen in the last picture. Again, I followed the ship's plans to make an accurate shape. The quadrant is designed for chains. On the prototype there are 'Z' channels following the arc of the quadrant, the chains sit in the channels and are shackled to the holes visible on the quadrant. I tried bending styrene channel but this was unsuccessful, so I'm making the channels from individual strips.

There are chain pulleys guiding them out to the sides of the ship, where turnbuckles will connect them to the cables. I should be able to have the linkages complete shortly. I think at that point I will permanently mount the ship onto its' display base.
Thanks for looking in!
 

As long as it's not Mary I'd be happy to oblige.  

Regarding the jogging.  If anybody sees me out jogging, PLEASE kill whatever is chasing me!

Thanks Alan! Yes, it is supposed to be a smaller incision and more precise placement of the prosthetic... they do expect me to be up and moving as soon as I'm fully awake!

With all due respect, I would use epoxy for metal/wood or metal/metal joints (if not soldering), rather than CA.

thank you all,
 
I've started on the cockpit seating & some other details that on the actual boat are unfinished teak, ie: greyed from natural weathering. I was dreading this work, it's got a lot of detail & also getting the weathering right. A few weeks ago I started researching weathering techniques on this forum & the web generally, some techniques are fairly simple but for one reason or another I remained unconvinced that it would be straightforward. The tests I did included rough sanding & scuffing the surface of the timber; dipping in diluted black paint, then with white added, then with beige added; wiping the surface of the timber strips with undiluted paints, diluted paints, on scuffed surfaces....The good news is that the most simple of the techniques seemed to work the best - essentially just wiping unscuffed timber with black or grey undiluted paint. Now that I was confident there could be a reasonable result I started working on the cockpit seating.
 
The technique was to build it on the model, but not yet gluing it on. The loose strip at the forwards edge is a border strip, to be fitted later.


And from the underside, you can see the downturned edge to the cockpit footwell, the edge piece is an L for the visible edge thickness:

 
And the lazarette hatch underway. You can see a piece of plain plastic sheet underneath, that's how I've been able to glue in situ. I think it's easier to make something accurately to size when you're building off assembled pieces rather than guessing from loose pieces.

 
A shot of the actual cockpit, when you look carefully the colour still has some natural warmth, it's not a pure grey. Below that are some of the weathering samples. Most of them are too heavy & too dark. Most also obscure too much of the timber colour, the best ones allow that natural colour through a bit.

 
The single strip 2nd from the right is getting close, needs a little more tweaking but I'm happy that I can do something satisfactory. The caulking will be done with an artist grade 0.5mm ink felt tip pen.

 
 
 
 

I decided to finish the outer planking above the wales first before installing the interior equipment. The first thing I had to do was cut out the holes for the gunport and oars.

All ignition wires are in place and I believe I have done what I can wrt the engine. 

All the woodwork for the case has been completed. Staining / finishing and then model installation followed by a couple of final details; however, for the most part I think I'm close to a finished (for now) situation.