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Bob Cleek

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  1. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Scottish Guy in Reef line length...   
    You might want to reconsider the above.  In practice, it appears that reef points on any given sail would all be of the same length in any event.
     
    The "rule of thumb" from Falconer's above sounds right, but here again the maxim, "Different ships, different long splices." applies. The reef points need to be long enough to conveniently encircle the mass of gathered canvas in the sail to be secured. Therefore, the size of the sail is the determining factor. In different periods, the common square sail sizes varied. In later times, particularly with merchant vessels, the size of the sails was reduced to permit easier handling and, thus, smaller crews, which meant more profit in the operation of the vessel. Obviously, a longer square sail will require longer reef points than a sail that's half as long. Naval vessels would furl sails very tightly such that the sail gathered and tied on the spar would not exceed the diameter of the spar. On the other hand, a merchant vessel would characteristically be less fastidiously maintained, and sails might be furled less tightly, if not just making a sloppy job of it sufficient only to get the canvas under control and out of the way and so might have longer reef points. 
     
    Not to make you crazy or anything, but depending upon the scale you're working in and the level of detail you are depicting, note also that reef "points" were so called because they were "pointed" by working a taper into their ends. There were general standards for the length of the reef points. (Note the term "reef points" references the pointed shape of these lines. It does not have anything to do with the gromets worked into the sail through which reef points are passed, as is modernly a commonly heard misuse of the term.) A bit of research in the appropriate sources for the period of your model will answer your questions much more specifically. For example, see "Steele's" for both the Admiralty and merchant marine practice circa 1794: https://maritime.org/doc/steel/large/pg148.php  There you will also see the number of gaskets that are required for each rate of ship (by the number of guns) to tie the completely furled sail to the yard. Illustrations are also provided. 
     
    For example, excerpts from Steele's:
     
    GASKETS. Braided cordage used to confine the sail to the yard, when furled, &c. ARM-GASKETS; those gaskets used at the extremities of yards. BUNT-GASKETS are those used in the middle of yards. QUARTER-GASKETS; those used between the middle and extremities of the yards.
     
    GASKETS are made with three-yarn foxes. Those for large ships consist of nine foxes, and those for smaller of seven. Place four foxes together, but lay them of unequal lengths; mark the middle of the whole length, and plait four foxes together, for eight or nine inches; then double it and plait the eight parts together for five inches, and work in the odd fox. The whole is then plaited together for eighteen inches in length; then leave out one fox, and so keep lessening, one fox at a time, till you come to five. If the foxes work out too fast, others must supply their places, till the whole length is worked, which is from five to seven fathoms long. To secure the ends, make a bight, by turning upwards one of the foxes, and plait the others through the bight, then haul tight upon that laid up.
    (Obviously, few modelers will actually plait their reef points as described by Steele, but an understanding of the full-scale practice better enables the modeler to depict such detail as they may wish secure in the knowledge of what it's supposed to look like.)
     
    POINTS, short pieces of braided cordage, plaited together as gaskets are; beginning in the middle with nine foxes, and tapering to five at the ends, and from one fathom and a half to one fathom in length. They are used to reef the courses and topsails.
     
    ROPEBANDS differ from gaskets only in their length, being from seven to nine feet long.
     
    POINTING. Tapering the end of a rope, or splice, and working over the reduced part a small close netting, with an even number of knittles twisted from the same, to prevent the end untwisting, and to go more easily through a block or hole.
     
    REEF. That portion of a sail contained between the head or foot, and a row of eyelet-holes parallel thereto, which portion is taken up to reduce the surface of the sail when the wind increases. Sails, according to their sizes, have from one to four reefs. A BAG-REEF is the fourth, or lower, reef of a topsail. A BALANCE-REEF crosses boom-mainsails diagonally, from the nock to the end of the upper reef-band on the after-leech.
     

     
    When modeling, the best approach is to experiment with a sample of the sail material you'll be using and simply measure how much line it takes to tie the reef lines and let that be your guide for the length of reef lines and gaskets. Many will reduce the model's sail size in order to more easily depict a tightly secured sail on the spar, in which case a similarly sized sail sample will yield the proper length of reef line or gasket needed.
  2. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Reef line length...   
    You might want to reconsider the above.  In practice, it appears that reef points on any given sail would all be of the same length in any event.
     
    The "rule of thumb" from Falconer's above sounds right, but here again the maxim, "Different ships, different long splices." applies. The reef points need to be long enough to conveniently encircle the mass of gathered canvas in the sail to be secured. Therefore, the size of the sail is the determining factor. In different periods, the common square sail sizes varied. In later times, particularly with merchant vessels, the size of the sails was reduced to permit easier handling and, thus, smaller crews, which meant more profit in the operation of the vessel. Obviously, a longer square sail will require longer reef points than a sail that's half as long. Naval vessels would furl sails very tightly such that the sail gathered and tied on the spar would not exceed the diameter of the spar. On the other hand, a merchant vessel would characteristically be less fastidiously maintained, and sails might be furled less tightly, if not just making a sloppy job of it sufficient only to get the canvas under control and out of the way and so might have longer reef points. 
     
    Not to make you crazy or anything, but depending upon the scale you're working in and the level of detail you are depicting, note also that reef "points" were so called because they were "pointed" by working a taper into their ends. There were general standards for the length of the reef points. (Note the term "reef points" references the pointed shape of these lines. It does not have anything to do with the gromets worked into the sail through which reef points are passed, as is modernly a commonly heard misuse of the term.) A bit of research in the appropriate sources for the period of your model will answer your questions much more specifically. For example, see "Steele's" for both the Admiralty and merchant marine practice circa 1794: https://maritime.org/doc/steel/large/pg148.php  There you will also see the number of gaskets that are required for each rate of ship (by the number of guns) to tie the completely furled sail to the yard. Illustrations are also provided. 
     
    For example, excerpts from Steele's:
     
    GASKETS. Braided cordage used to confine the sail to the yard, when furled, &c. ARM-GASKETS; those gaskets used at the extremities of yards. BUNT-GASKETS are those used in the middle of yards. QUARTER-GASKETS; those used between the middle and extremities of the yards.
     
    GASKETS are made with three-yarn foxes. Those for large ships consist of nine foxes, and those for smaller of seven. Place four foxes together, but lay them of unequal lengths; mark the middle of the whole length, and plait four foxes together, for eight or nine inches; then double it and plait the eight parts together for five inches, and work in the odd fox. The whole is then plaited together for eighteen inches in length; then leave out one fox, and so keep lessening, one fox at a time, till you come to five. If the foxes work out too fast, others must supply their places, till the whole length is worked, which is from five to seven fathoms long. To secure the ends, make a bight, by turning upwards one of the foxes, and plait the others through the bight, then haul tight upon that laid up.
    (Obviously, few modelers will actually plait their reef points as described by Steele, but an understanding of the full-scale practice better enables the modeler to depict such detail as they may wish secure in the knowledge of what it's supposed to look like.)
     
    POINTS, short pieces of braided cordage, plaited together as gaskets are; beginning in the middle with nine foxes, and tapering to five at the ends, and from one fathom and a half to one fathom in length. They are used to reef the courses and topsails.
     
    ROPEBANDS differ from gaskets only in their length, being from seven to nine feet long.
     
    POINTING. Tapering the end of a rope, or splice, and working over the reduced part a small close netting, with an even number of knittles twisted from the same, to prevent the end untwisting, and to go more easily through a block or hole.
     
    REEF. That portion of a sail contained between the head or foot, and a row of eyelet-holes parallel thereto, which portion is taken up to reduce the surface of the sail when the wind increases. Sails, according to their sizes, have from one to four reefs. A BAG-REEF is the fourth, or lower, reef of a topsail. A BALANCE-REEF crosses boom-mainsails diagonally, from the nock to the end of the upper reef-band on the after-leech.
     

     
    When modeling, the best approach is to experiment with a sample of the sail material you'll be using and simply measure how much line it takes to tie the reef lines and let that be your guide for the length of reef lines and gaskets. Many will reduce the model's sail size in order to more easily depict a tightly secured sail on the spar, in which case a similarly sized sail sample will yield the proper length of reef line or gasket needed.
  3. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from allanyed in Reef line length...   
    You might want to reconsider the above.  In practice, it appears that reef points on any given sail would all be of the same length in any event.
     
    The "rule of thumb" from Falconer's above sounds right, but here again the maxim, "Different ships, different long splices." applies. The reef points need to be long enough to conveniently encircle the mass of gathered canvas in the sail to be secured. Therefore, the size of the sail is the determining factor. In different periods, the common square sail sizes varied. In later times, particularly with merchant vessels, the size of the sails was reduced to permit easier handling and, thus, smaller crews, which meant more profit in the operation of the vessel. Obviously, a longer square sail will require longer reef points than a sail that's half as long. Naval vessels would furl sails very tightly such that the sail gathered and tied on the spar would not exceed the diameter of the spar. On the other hand, a merchant vessel would characteristically be less fastidiously maintained, and sails might be furled less tightly, if not just making a sloppy job of it sufficient only to get the canvas under control and out of the way and so might have longer reef points. 
     
    Not to make you crazy or anything, but depending upon the scale you're working in and the level of detail you are depicting, note also that reef "points" were so called because they were "pointed" by working a taper into their ends. There were general standards for the length of the reef points. (Note the term "reef points" references the pointed shape of these lines. It does not have anything to do with the gromets worked into the sail through which reef points are passed, as is modernly a commonly heard misuse of the term.) A bit of research in the appropriate sources for the period of your model will answer your questions much more specifically. For example, see "Steele's" for both the Admiralty and merchant marine practice circa 1794: https://maritime.org/doc/steel/large/pg148.php  There you will also see the number of gaskets that are required for each rate of ship (by the number of guns) to tie the completely furled sail to the yard. Illustrations are also provided. 
     
    For example, excerpts from Steele's:
     
    GASKETS. Braided cordage used to confine the sail to the yard, when furled, &c. ARM-GASKETS; those gaskets used at the extremities of yards. BUNT-GASKETS are those used in the middle of yards. QUARTER-GASKETS; those used between the middle and extremities of the yards.
     
    GASKETS are made with three-yarn foxes. Those for large ships consist of nine foxes, and those for smaller of seven. Place four foxes together, but lay them of unequal lengths; mark the middle of the whole length, and plait four foxes together, for eight or nine inches; then double it and plait the eight parts together for five inches, and work in the odd fox. The whole is then plaited together for eighteen inches in length; then leave out one fox, and so keep lessening, one fox at a time, till you come to five. If the foxes work out too fast, others must supply their places, till the whole length is worked, which is from five to seven fathoms long. To secure the ends, make a bight, by turning upwards one of the foxes, and plait the others through the bight, then haul tight upon that laid up.
    (Obviously, few modelers will actually plait their reef points as described by Steele, but an understanding of the full-scale practice better enables the modeler to depict such detail as they may wish secure in the knowledge of what it's supposed to look like.)
     
    POINTS, short pieces of braided cordage, plaited together as gaskets are; beginning in the middle with nine foxes, and tapering to five at the ends, and from one fathom and a half to one fathom in length. They are used to reef the courses and topsails.
     
    ROPEBANDS differ from gaskets only in their length, being from seven to nine feet long.
     
    POINTING. Tapering the end of a rope, or splice, and working over the reduced part a small close netting, with an even number of knittles twisted from the same, to prevent the end untwisting, and to go more easily through a block or hole.
     
    REEF. That portion of a sail contained between the head or foot, and a row of eyelet-holes parallel thereto, which portion is taken up to reduce the surface of the sail when the wind increases. Sails, according to their sizes, have from one to four reefs. A BAG-REEF is the fourth, or lower, reef of a topsail. A BALANCE-REEF crosses boom-mainsails diagonally, from the nock to the end of the upper reef-band on the after-leech.
     

     
    When modeling, the best approach is to experiment with a sample of the sail material you'll be using and simply measure how much line it takes to tie the reef lines and let that be your guide for the length of reef lines and gaskets. Many will reduce the model's sail size in order to more easily depict a tightly secured sail on the spar, in which case a similarly sized sail sample will yield the proper length of reef line or gasket needed.
  4. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from cotrecerf in Reef line length...   
    You might want to reconsider the above.  In practice, it appears that reef points on any given sail would all be of the same length in any event.
     
    The "rule of thumb" from Falconer's above sounds right, but here again the maxim, "Different ships, different long splices." applies. The reef points need to be long enough to conveniently encircle the mass of gathered canvas in the sail to be secured. Therefore, the size of the sail is the determining factor. In different periods, the common square sail sizes varied. In later times, particularly with merchant vessels, the size of the sails was reduced to permit easier handling and, thus, smaller crews, which meant more profit in the operation of the vessel. Obviously, a longer square sail will require longer reef points than a sail that's half as long. Naval vessels would furl sails very tightly such that the sail gathered and tied on the spar would not exceed the diameter of the spar. On the other hand, a merchant vessel would characteristically be less fastidiously maintained, and sails might be furled less tightly, if not just making a sloppy job of it sufficient only to get the canvas under control and out of the way and so might have longer reef points. 
     
    Not to make you crazy or anything, but depending upon the scale you're working in and the level of detail you are depicting, note also that reef "points" were so called because they were "pointed" by working a taper into their ends. There were general standards for the length of the reef points. (Note the term "reef points" references the pointed shape of these lines. It does not have anything to do with the gromets worked into the sail through which reef points are passed, as is modernly a commonly heard misuse of the term.) A bit of research in the appropriate sources for the period of your model will answer your questions much more specifically. For example, see "Steele's" for both the Admiralty and merchant marine practice circa 1794: https://maritime.org/doc/steel/large/pg148.php  There you will also see the number of gaskets that are required for each rate of ship (by the number of guns) to tie the completely furled sail to the yard. Illustrations are also provided. 
     
    For example, excerpts from Steele's:
     
    GASKETS. Braided cordage used to confine the sail to the yard, when furled, &c. ARM-GASKETS; those gaskets used at the extremities of yards. BUNT-GASKETS are those used in the middle of yards. QUARTER-GASKETS; those used between the middle and extremities of the yards.
     
    GASKETS are made with three-yarn foxes. Those for large ships consist of nine foxes, and those for smaller of seven. Place four foxes together, but lay them of unequal lengths; mark the middle of the whole length, and plait four foxes together, for eight or nine inches; then double it and plait the eight parts together for five inches, and work in the odd fox. The whole is then plaited together for eighteen inches in length; then leave out one fox, and so keep lessening, one fox at a time, till you come to five. If the foxes work out too fast, others must supply their places, till the whole length is worked, which is from five to seven fathoms long. To secure the ends, make a bight, by turning upwards one of the foxes, and plait the others through the bight, then haul tight upon that laid up.
    (Obviously, few modelers will actually plait their reef points as described by Steele, but an understanding of the full-scale practice better enables the modeler to depict such detail as they may wish secure in the knowledge of what it's supposed to look like.)
     
    POINTS, short pieces of braided cordage, plaited together as gaskets are; beginning in the middle with nine foxes, and tapering to five at the ends, and from one fathom and a half to one fathom in length. They are used to reef the courses and topsails.
     
    ROPEBANDS differ from gaskets only in their length, being from seven to nine feet long.
     
    POINTING. Tapering the end of a rope, or splice, and working over the reduced part a small close netting, with an even number of knittles twisted from the same, to prevent the end untwisting, and to go more easily through a block or hole.
     
    REEF. That portion of a sail contained between the head or foot, and a row of eyelet-holes parallel thereto, which portion is taken up to reduce the surface of the sail when the wind increases. Sails, according to their sizes, have from one to four reefs. A BAG-REEF is the fourth, or lower, reef of a topsail. A BALANCE-REEF crosses boom-mainsails diagonally, from the nock to the end of the upper reef-band on the after-leech.
     

     
    When modeling, the best approach is to experiment with a sample of the sail material you'll be using and simply measure how much line it takes to tie the reef lines and let that be your guide for the length of reef lines and gaskets. Many will reduce the model's sail size in order to more easily depict a tightly secured sail on the spar, in which case a similarly sized sail sample will yield the proper length of reef line or gasket needed.
  5. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to wefalck in Miniature Russian carving tools   
    ... and one shouldn't anyway now.
     
    In principle, anyone with a good tool-grinder could make such tools from round HSS-blanks.
  6. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Bending hard brass.   
    Probably.
     
    For a good example of brass skeg fabrication see: 
     
  7. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from allanyed in Bending hard brass.   
    I'm sorry. Maybe it's me, but I can't figure out the bend you are contemplating. A picture is worth a thousand words sometimes.
     
    I'm not sure how you want to bend it. If you're trying to do what I think you are trying to do, I'd have to answer "No can do."
  8. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Scottish Guy in Bending hard brass.   
    It's not about the type of vessel or style of hull.  He has as 10" x 1/2" x 1/8" piece of "hard" brass to use as a skeg which he wants to bend in order to make it "3/4" lower at the middle to clear the prop."  If the stock is to be a skeg, given it's dimensions, I'd expect he wants to know how to bend it 3/4" across the 1/2" wide vertical face of the skeg.  "Hard" brass can easily be annealed with a torch, but there are limits to "bending across the flat" which would seemingly be exceeded in this scenario.
     
  9. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Scottish Guy in Bending hard brass.   
    Probably.
     
    For a good example of brass skeg fabrication see: 
     
  10. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from GGibson in Bending hard brass.   
    Probably.
     
    For a good example of brass skeg fabrication see: 
     
  11. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Bending hard brass.   
    Probably.
     
    For a good example of brass skeg fabrication see: 
     
  12. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Bending hard brass.   
    It's not about the type of vessel or style of hull.  He has as 10" x 1/2" x 1/8" piece of "hard" brass to use as a skeg which he wants to bend in order to make it "3/4" lower at the middle to clear the prop."  If the stock is to be a skeg, given it's dimensions, I'd expect he wants to know how to bend it 3/4" across the 1/2" wide vertical face of the skeg.  "Hard" brass can easily be annealed with a torch, but there are limits to "bending across the flat" which would seemingly be exceeded in this scenario.
     
  13. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Bending hard brass.   
    I'm sorry. Maybe it's me, but I can't figure out the bend you are contemplating. A picture is worth a thousand words sometimes.
     
    I'm not sure how you want to bend it. If you're trying to do what I think you are trying to do, I'd have to answer "No can do."
  14. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Looking for wooden ship model of Richard Henry Dana's ship, the Brig 'Pilgrim' (Moved and retitled by moderator)   
    I don't recall the Blairs, so cannot pass on any news about them. Sorry.
  15. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Looking for wooden ship model of Richard Henry Dana's ship, the Brig 'Pilgrim' (Moved and retitled by moderator)   
    It's nice to hear of another who remembers Ray Aker, a man who certainly deserved greater fame than he realized during his lifetime. He was a very good maritime historian and one of the better draftsmen around. I still have the copy of his beautiful technical drawing of the remains of the 1840 whaling bark Lydia uncovered during excavations for the 1978 construction of the San Francisco Peripheral Sewer project which he gave us when I knew the archaeological impact report consultants on that project. 
     
     

    http://library.mysticseaport.org/ere/odetail.cfm?id_number=1961.72
     
    Without passing any judgment pro or con regarding your posting your research records on the Drake Navigator's Guild's website, as a fellow member of our generation, I would urge you to strongly consider making provision for the donation of your research files to the J. Porter Shaw Library at the San Francisco National Maritime Museum at Fort Mason, San Francisco. As you probably know, the J. Porter Shaw is the best recognized repository for such subject matter these days.  
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Do I need thes books, or just want them?   
    Sorry for the confusion. I was in the middle of an edit, so you caught only the beginning of the post.
     
    Check out the link I provided above to the U.S. Amazon and eBay websites and you'll see they are both offering new and used copies. Beyond that, I expect the cost of shipping is prohibitive. We keep hearing that in recent times on all sorts of modeling essentials. The cost of an item on the opposite side of the Pond seems to almost double when the shipping is added. We have U.K. books listed on U.S. eBay, so I'm not sure why it doesn't work the same the other way around. Is it possible the "not available" status is a result of some sort of E.U. customs issue?
  17. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Do I need thes books, or just want them?   
    It was an expensive book when first published and seems to have remained so. Apparently, it was until rather recently only available directly from the publisher, Ancre, in Nice, France. The Art of Shipmodeling - Bernard Frolich - Ancre There are now new and used copies available on U.S. Amazon (The Art of Ship modeling: Bernard Frolich: 9782903179847: Amazon.com: Books) and U.S. eBay: (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=The+Art+of+Shipmodeling+by+Bernard+Frolich&_sacat=0&_odkw=The+Art+of+Shipmodeling&_osacat=0)
     
    Believe me, we feel your pain over here, as well. We have to pay the same exorbitant shipping costs from the U.K. to the U.S. that you apparently must in the opposite direction. I believe this increase in shipping costs was attributable to the fact that all shippers seem now to be sending everything air freight. Time was, you could order something from Europe and it might take three or four weeks to get here, but the shipping didn't break the bank unless you wanted to opt for air freight. Now it's all air freight whether you need it or not.  On top of that, you may also be paying the price for "Brexit," but I'm not really all that familiar with that issue, of course. Perhaps you might consider having a friend who is making a run to the South of France "smuggle" a copy back for you from Ancre.  It's really a valuable resource.
  18. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Do I need thes books, or just want them?   
    I believe that The Art of Shipmodeling has reached that pinnacle of universal reference work that it is simply referred to by its author's last name: "Frolich." I see where, inexplicably, Amazon has it for sale new for $70.00. That's a steal at less than half the price most of us paid over the last 22 years since it was first published. I'd grab a copy in a hot minute if I were you. There's a wealth of information in it. 
     
    But beware! Do not confuse The Art of Shipmodeling by Bernard Frolich with The Art of Ship Modeling by Richard Mansir, which is an entirely different book. It's "Frolich" that you want to make sure you are buying.
     
    If it's classic books on modeling technique and "tricks of the trade," I'd strongly recommend:
     
     The Techniques of Ship Modeling, by the late Gerald Wingrove: The Techniques of Ship Modelling by Wingrove, Gerald A. Hardback Book The Fast 9780852423660 | eBay There are always a few used copies on eBay (both hardcover and quality paperback) so shop for the lowest price, usually less than ten bucks used. 
     
    Ship Modeler's Shop Notes, Volumes 1 and 2 from the NRG. There are always used copies of these on eBay and Amazon. New copies are available from the NRG store through this forum. As for Volume 1, I'd advise you get a newer printing with the spiral binding which permits the books to be laid flat on a workbench or tabletop when working from them. The original binding was a glued spine paperback and the glue dried out and the pages come loose. My copy of Volume 1 is held together with a bulldog clip. I should bring it to Staples or one of those places and have them spiral bind it for me.
     
    William Frederick's (1874) Scale Journey: A Scratchbuilder's Evolutionary Development, by Antonio Mendez C. This book was "remaindered" on eBay a couple of years ago for seven bucks a copy and I grabbed one. It's focus is radio controlled sailing scale models, but its content is a survey of technique, and it is full of subjects not found elsewhere, especially regarding tools and shop practices. It would take you years of following build logs on MSW to pick up but a fraction of the how-to-do-its in this book. Unfortunately, it appears to have become something of a collectable at this point and Amazon is now selling them for $47.00. If you watch out for a copy on eBay, you may get lucky and snag one for closer to the price when they were selling off the remainders new. William Frederick's (1874) Scale Journey: A Scratchbuilder's Evolutionary Development: mendez, antonio: 9780975577202: Amazon.com: Books  I checked eBay just now and see where they have three between $50.00 and $169.00! (Let this be a lesson to modeling library builders everywhere!) 
     
    Plank-On-Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging, Vol. 1: Scale Hull Construction and Plank-On-Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging, Vol. 2: Scale Hull Construction by Harold A. Underhill. This two-volume set is a classic and there are lots of used copies on eBay for surprisingly reasonable prices. (Still in print, new copies run around $90 per volume!) plank on frame models underhill for sale | eBay
     
    Masting and Rigging: The Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier by Harold Underhill. This is what I'd call the Bible of the last days of commercial sail. If you are interested in clippers and windjammers, as well as general rigging practice at the highest level of its evolution, this book is it. Used copies are available very reasonably priced on eBay.  Masting and Rigging: The Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier for sale | eBay
     
    These titles are recommended for their treatment of general modeling practices and techniques more than for specific research data on specific types and periods. When your interest becomes focused on a particular type of vessel in a particular period, there are specific reference works that become "must haves," but they tend to be expensive (some running more than a hundred dollars and up) and sometimes very difficult to find. If you continue to pursue your interest in ship modeling, you will find yourself acquiring a library of some value and doing that easily becomes a related hobby in and of itself.
     
  19. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek reacted to Windships in Looking for wooden ship model of Richard Henry Dana's ship, the Brig 'Pilgrim' (Moved and retitled by moderator)   
    Ahh, thanks for the reminder.
     
    A Hitchcock model named Pilgrim was commissioned from Mike Wall's gallery by the Santa Barbara Maritime Museum many years ago.
    Mike told me the basis was the 1837 US brig Washington. A vessel way too sharp in form. The model is finely crafted and still on display.
    Those plans are probably in Chapelle's The History of The American Sailing Navy (1949).
     
    The Hitchcock family often made more than one model of a particular vessel, so I imagine that's how/why Larry Lannan has/had one as well.
     
    Although I have a paper set of the Spillane drawings -- for both Pilgrim and Alert (the latter completely speculative based on the scant descriptions of her in Two Years Before The Mast) I will not propagate copies. A personal preference as an historian to not encourage more models of any vessel where we know that depiction is demonstrably in error.
     
    If you saw my study of Hannah (1765-1775) published in 2022 on the NRG web site (Extended Content) and still available there, you will more fully understand why I believe as I do.
    ALL the earlier depictions of Hannah in model form, and most notably those built from my friend Harold Hahn's plans are incorrect. This study proves it.
     
    Yes, I call my new depiction an "informed speculation" and not a reconstruction or some such. But the "informed" part comes from primary sources about that Hannah, and what we know about vessels of her type, size and purpose of that time period.
     
    I try very hard to discourage other builders from wasting their precious time with such fictions.
    Which also perpetuates false impressions and understandings of significant vessels in our history.
     
    See Mike Morris's build log of his exceptional model to these drawings.
     
    Sorry, enough of my "waxing pontifical".
     
    Thanks
     
  20. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Frank Burroughs in Do I need thes books, or just want them?   
    The Art of Shipmodeling - Bernard Frolich
    This arrived today.  Fantastic !  This something to aim for.
  21. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Frank Burroughs in Do I need thes books, or just want them?   
    Well, I am a long way from building the Soleil Royal, and is a century before the era of my interest.  That being said, I look forward to expanding my knowledge.  Reading has become the number one use of my time.  Then while gluing and painting these pages are mulled over.  This is a rich hobby with a wealth of books.  Rather be broke with a new vision then unaware of what is out there.
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Dr PR in Cutty Sark mizzen pin rail belaying pins and mizzen halliards   
    One of the best - if not THE best - sources of information about clipper ship rigging is Harold A. Underhill's Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier (Brown, Son and Ferguson, Ltd., Glasgow, 1972). It has detailed descriptions and illustrations of all parts of the rigging, including complete rigging and belaying plans for a clipper ship. It is an excellent reference with a great index of about 1500 entries for just about everything he describes.
  23. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Scottish Guy in Looking for wooden ship model of Richard Henry Dana's ship, the Brig 'Pilgrim' (Moved and retitled by moderator)   
    I don't recall the Blairs, so cannot pass on any news about them. Sorry.
  24. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Scottish Guy in Looking for wooden ship model of Richard Henry Dana's ship, the Brig 'Pilgrim' (Moved and retitled by moderator)   
    It's nice to hear of another who remembers Ray Aker, a man who certainly deserved greater fame than he realized during his lifetime. He was a very good maritime historian and one of the better draftsmen around. I still have the copy of his beautiful technical drawing of the remains of the 1840 whaling bark Lydia uncovered during excavations for the 1978 construction of the San Francisco Peripheral Sewer project which he gave us when I knew the archaeological impact report consultants on that project. 
     
     

    http://library.mysticseaport.org/ere/odetail.cfm?id_number=1961.72
     
    Without passing any judgment pro or con regarding your posting your research records on the Drake Navigator's Guild's website, as a fellow member of our generation, I would urge you to strongly consider making provision for the donation of your research files to the J. Porter Shaw Library at the San Francisco National Maritime Museum at Fort Mason, San Francisco. As you probably know, the J. Porter Shaw is the best recognized repository for such subject matter these days.  
  25. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Windships in Looking for wooden ship model of Richard Henry Dana's ship, the Brig 'Pilgrim' (Moved and retitled by moderator)   
    Couldn't agree more about our beloved pal Ray Aker.
    Glad to hear from another of our crowd celebrating Ray's life and contributions.
    It is sad that his work has not received the recognition due.
     
    Regarding the JPS Library... Gina Bardi (World's Finest Reference Librarian) is a special Friend of mine. And has contributed generously to my research in a number of areas.
    About 8-9 years ago she hosted my presentation on Pilgrim at the JPS. Other institutions did as well (Santa Barbara MM, LA MM, Dana Adobe, Dana Point Historical Society)
     
    Coincidentally, I just snapped photos of a collection of images of Steam Schooners which I will probably soon donate to JPS, if not duplicates.
     
    Pretty sure the JPS has a copy of the Annotated Bibliography I mentioned, because I sent it (MS Word) to each of the major institutions which helped me.
    None of the other material has been placed or shared except as noted with the HSOY, and my guidance for modeling Pilgrim, I think in the Ship Modelers Association of Southern California in a newsletter. I was a member there for decades until we moved to Idaho in June 2017.
     
    My interest in the Drake is that the material could be accessible online.
    I've not discussed any of this with them, or with Gina.
     
    Happy to get to know you Bob.
     
    p.s. I have lost track of Jerry and Arlene Blair. Have you heard from him?
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