woodrat

I am happy to remove the word "dead". The rest I leave to the moderator. This is an open forum and disagreement is allowed as long as it is polite so maybe dead wrong is a poor choice of words.
Woodrat
 

Again I would disagree. This discussion, for that is what it should have been, bears directly on Steven's build and on the whole subject of mediterranean round ships. There is no doubt that there was a diversity of rigs extant in the Mediterranean during the period of the thirteenth through fifteenth century. This ranges from simple lagoonal and riverine vessels with latin rigs and quarter rudders right through to cog-like vessels and the later evolution of the nave quadra with the northern innovation of square rig and stern rudder. To anyone wishing to read an authoritative momnograph on this subject I would refer to the excellent publication: The art and archaeology of venetian ships and boats by Lillian Ray Martin , Chatham Publishing 2001 . ISBN 1-86176-173-2. This was a major resource for my previous round ship reconstruction.
 
I have gone back through the entire log of Steven's build and have extracted all the images which  incontrovertibly show a quadrangular  sail and looked carefully at all other supplied images for evidence of either square rig or settee rig ( a variant of latin sail in which the forward part of the triangular sail is truncated. This is seen well in dhows). Here are the images of square rig:
this is the only image from the Veneziano school (first half 14th C) which shows square rig on a round ship. So it shows that square rig was around and used on some round ships. Most other images in this period show latin rig.
This may be square rig or furled latin or settee but it certainly shows a rope ladder.

Dont know where this image comes from. This is a northern vessel with stern rudder. Note the reefing points (not seen on latin rig) and the foot of the sail tied into a bundle by the reefing points (See my hulc log for details). This is not a round ship and is probably northern european,
Again the sail is quadrangular and probably a settee sail running before the wind. Note the "crows nest aft of the mast and the Jacob's ladder.
This is a cog. Nothing to do with round ships.
Probably settee also running before the wind
To show that latin rig when used on different points of sailing can simulate square rig, here is a section of the 14thC Cocharelli Codex which speaks for itself.
So, there is no doubt that settee rig and maybe even square rig was used alongside latin rig in the Mediterranean Middle Ages. But the overwhelming number of rigs were latin.
To quote the great Fred Dagg : 'I'll get out of your way now'"
Woodrat

Again I would disagree. This discussion, for that is what it should have been, bears directly on Steven's build and on the whole subject of mediterranean round ships. There is no doubt that there was a diversity of rigs extant in the Mediterranean during the period of the thirteenth through fifteenth century. This ranges from simple lagoonal and riverine vessels with latin rigs and quarter rudders right through to cog-like vessels and the later evolution of the nave quadra with the northern innovation of square rig and stern rudder. To anyone wishing to read an authoritative momnograph on this subject I would refer to the excellent publication: The art and archaeology of venetian ships and boats by Lillian Ray Martin , Chatham Publishing 2001 . ISBN 1-86176-173-2. This was a major resource for my previous round ship reconstruction.
 
I have gone back through the entire log of Steven's build and have extracted all the images which  incontrovertibly show a quadrangular  sail and looked carefully at all other supplied images for evidence of either square rig or settee rig ( a variant of latin sail in which the forward part of the triangular sail is truncated. This is seen well in dhows). Here are the images of square rig:
this is the only image from the Veneziano school (first half 14th C) which shows square rig on a round ship. So it shows that square rig was around and used on some round ships. Most other images in this period show latin rig.
This may be square rig or furled latin or settee but it certainly shows a rope ladder.

Dont know where this image comes from. This is a northern vessel with stern rudder. Note the reefing points (not seen on latin rig) and the foot of the sail tied into a bundle by the reefing points (See my hulc log for details). This is not a round ship and is probably northern european,
Again the sail is quadrangular and probably a settee sail running before the wind. Note the "crows nest aft of the mast and the Jacob's ladder.
This is a cog. Nothing to do with round ships.
Probably settee also running before the wind
To show that latin rig when used on different points of sailing can simulate square rig, here is a section of the 14thC Cocharelli Codex which speaks for itself.
So, there is no doubt that settee rig and maybe even square rig was used alongside latin rig in the Mediterranean Middle Ages. But the overwhelming number of rigs were latin.
To quote the great Fred Dagg : 'I'll get out of your way now'"
Woodrat

On the undecked starboard side the carlings are installed

The carlings support the ledges which in turn support the deck planking


This completes main deck framing. Now for deck furniture.
Dick

Again I would disagree. This discussion, for that is what it should have been, bears directly on Steven's build and on the whole subject of mediterranean round ships. There is no doubt that there was a diversity of rigs extant in the Mediterranean during the period of the thirteenth through fifteenth century. This ranges from simple lagoonal and riverine vessels with latin rigs and quarter rudders right through to cog-like vessels and the later evolution of the nave quadra with the northern innovation of square rig and stern rudder. To anyone wishing to read an authoritative momnograph on this subject I would refer to the excellent publication: The art and archaeology of venetian ships and boats by Lillian Ray Martin , Chatham Publishing 2001 . ISBN 1-86176-173-2. This was a major resource for my previous round ship reconstruction.
 
I have gone back through the entire log of Steven's build and have extracted all the images which  incontrovertibly show a quadrangular  sail and looked carefully at all other supplied images for evidence of either square rig or settee rig ( a variant of latin sail in which the forward part of the triangular sail is truncated. This is seen well in dhows). Here are the images of square rig:
this is the only image from the Veneziano school (first half 14th C) which shows square rig on a round ship. So it shows that square rig was around and used on some round ships. Most other images in this period show latin rig.
This may be square rig or furled latin or settee but it certainly shows a rope ladder.

Dont know where this image comes from. This is a northern vessel with stern rudder. Note the reefing points (not seen on latin rig) and the foot of the sail tied into a bundle by the reefing points (See my hulc log for details). This is not a round ship and is probably northern european,
Again the sail is quadrangular and probably a settee sail running before the wind. Note the "crows nest aft of the mast and the Jacob's ladder.
This is a cog. Nothing to do with round ships.
Probably settee also running before the wind
To show that latin rig when used on different points of sailing can simulate square rig, here is a section of the 14thC Cocharelli Codex which speaks for itself.
So, there is no doubt that settee rig and maybe even square rig was used alongside latin rig in the Mediterranean Middle Ages. But the overwhelming number of rigs were latin.
To quote the great Fred Dagg : 'I'll get out of your way now'"
Woodrat

Again I would disagree. This discussion, for that is what it should have been, bears directly on Steven's build and on the whole subject of mediterranean round ships. There is no doubt that there was a diversity of rigs extant in the Mediterranean during the period of the thirteenth through fifteenth century. This ranges from simple lagoonal and riverine vessels with latin rigs and quarter rudders right through to cog-like vessels and the later evolution of the nave quadra with the northern innovation of square rig and stern rudder. To anyone wishing to read an authoritative momnograph on this subject I would refer to the excellent publication: The art and archaeology of venetian ships and boats by Lillian Ray Martin , Chatham Publishing 2001 . ISBN 1-86176-173-2. This was a major resource for my previous round ship reconstruction.
 
I have gone back through the entire log of Steven's build and have extracted all the images which  incontrovertibly show a quadrangular  sail and looked carefully at all other supplied images for evidence of either square rig or settee rig ( a variant of latin sail in which the forward part of the triangular sail is truncated. This is seen well in dhows). Here are the images of square rig:
this is the only image from the Veneziano school (first half 14th C) which shows square rig on a round ship. So it shows that square rig was around and used on some round ships. Most other images in this period show latin rig.
This may be square rig or furled latin or settee but it certainly shows a rope ladder.

Dont know where this image comes from. This is a northern vessel with stern rudder. Note the reefing points (not seen on latin rig) and the foot of the sail tied into a bundle by the reefing points (See my hulc log for details). This is not a round ship and is probably northern european,
Again the sail is quadrangular and probably a settee sail running before the wind. Note the "crows nest aft of the mast and the Jacob's ladder.
This is a cog. Nothing to do with round ships.
Probably settee also running before the wind
To show that latin rig when used on different points of sailing can simulate square rig, here is a section of the 14thC Cocharelli Codex which speaks for itself.
So, there is no doubt that settee rig and maybe even square rig was used alongside latin rig in the Mediterranean Middle Ages. But the overwhelming number of rigs were latin.
To quote the great Fred Dagg : 'I'll get out of your way now'"
Woodrat

Not at all Grant. I took it in a humorous vein and replied in a jocular fashion. I thought your comment was most apt.
Cheers
Dick 😁

Hello everyone, thank you for the likes. The deck is finished with the planks, I don't want to add anything else to give a good view of the interior. Testing the various structures, anchor winch holder, etc. everything is in place and fits perfectly. Next up is the nails, two rows are already done.
 

 

 

 

On the undecked starboard side the carlings are installed

The carlings support the ledges which in turn support the deck planking


This completes main deck framing. Now for deck furniture.
Dick

On the undecked starboard side the carlings are installed

The carlings support the ledges which in turn support the deck planking


This completes main deck framing. Now for deck furniture.
Dick

I am happy to remove the word "dead". The rest I leave to the moderator. This is an open forum and disagreement is allowed as long as it is polite so maybe dead wrong is a poor choice of words.
Woodrat
 

I am sorry Tartane but you are wrong on both counts. There is ample iconographic evidence from the Mediterranean middle ages for lateen sails  since at least the seventh century CE and there were indeed observation baskets just as Steven has modelled them. The baskets were positioned aft of the masthead so as not to foul the yard when going about.

Beg to differ. They certainly didnt have ratlines till much later.

 

Cheers
Dick the Woodrat
 

Too cruel! But true🐙
Dick

On the undecked starboard side the carlings are installed

The carlings support the ledges which in turn support the deck planking


This completes main deck framing. Now for deck furniture.
Dick

I am happy to remove the word "dead". The rest I leave to the moderator. This is an open forum and disagreement is allowed as long as it is polite so maybe dead wrong is a poor choice of words.
Woodrat
 

On the undecked starboard side the carlings are installed

The carlings support the ledges which in turn support the deck planking


This completes main deck framing. Now for deck furniture.
Dick

I am sorry Tartane but you are wrong on both counts. There is ample iconographic evidence from the Mediterranean middle ages for lateen sails  since at least the seventh century CE and there were indeed observation baskets just as Steven has modelled them. The baskets were positioned aft of the masthead so as not to foul the yard when going about.

Beg to differ. They certainly didnt have ratlines till much later.

 

Cheers
Dick the Woodrat
 

I am happy to remove the word "dead". The rest I leave to the moderator. This is an open forum and disagreement is allowed as long as it is polite so maybe dead wrong is a poor choice of words.
Woodrat
 

I am sorry Tartane but you are wrong on both counts. There is ample iconographic evidence from the Mediterranean middle ages for lateen sails  since at least the seventh century CE and there were indeed observation baskets just as Steven has modelled them. The baskets were positioned aft of the masthead so as not to foul the yard when going about.

Beg to differ. They certainly didnt have ratlines till much later.

 

Cheers
Dick the Woodrat
 

On the undecked starboard side the carlings are installed

The carlings support the ledges which in turn support the deck planking


This completes main deck framing. Now for deck furniture.
Dick

I am sorry Tartane but you are wrong on both counts. There is ample iconographic evidence from the Mediterranean middle ages for lateen sails  since at least the seventh century CE and there were indeed observation baskets just as Steven has modelled them. The baskets were positioned aft of the masthead so as not to foul the yard when going about.

Beg to differ. They certainly didnt have ratlines till much later.

 

Cheers
Dick the Woodrat
 

I am happy to remove the word "dead". The rest I leave to the moderator. This is an open forum and disagreement is allowed as long as it is polite so maybe dead wrong is a poor choice of words.
Woodrat
 

I am sorry Tartane but you are wrong on both counts. There is ample iconographic evidence from the Mediterranean middle ages for lateen sails  since at least the seventh century CE and there were indeed observation baskets just as Steven has modelled them. The baskets were positioned aft of the masthead so as not to foul the yard when going about.

Beg to differ. They certainly didnt have ratlines till much later.

 

Cheers
Dick the Woodrat
 

On the undecked starboard side the carlings are installed

The carlings support the ledges which in turn support the deck planking


This completes main deck framing. Now for deck furniture.
Dick

I am happy to remove the word "dead". The rest I leave to the moderator. This is an open forum and disagreement is allowed as long as it is polite so maybe dead wrong is a poor choice of words.
Woodrat