GMO2
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Here's another method I just read,and this actually sounds like a practical approach,as opposed to carrying your hull out behind the barn.Someone was asking how to attain the greenish color on some copper panels on part o f their house,and were told that liquid miracle -gro for African Violets brushed on like paint and left in the sun for a day did the trick.Like you I want to find a simple method to do this,and this sounds like its worth pursuing.
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The dung deal was one I read about as a method to artificially age ornamental copper,which would have considerably more mass than the 1 mil tape we get in these kits.I think one thing we have to be careful of in trying to achieve this effect by artificially accelerated means is the possibility of eating thru the tape in places if we are a little too aggressive in the chemical treatment.I tried the pee approach and only managed to dull the tape a little,but nothing like the old penny look.I plan to test out the wine method at the first opportunity,and a report on the results will be forthcoming.
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In regards to the green patina on the copper sheathing on the 2nd model,I think remember reading elsewhere that the effect was created with painted paper plates as opposed to actual copper.Achieving the actual green coating of verdigris on the copper tape supplied in the kit is not an easy matter.One approach I read involved pressing the copper against a block of wood coated with acetic acid and then burying it in dung.Well,no to that! There are others of varying degrees of practicality,but the most promising involved applying wine to the copper after some period of oxidation .At least this method allows acknowledgment of whatever the results by consuming the remaining wine.One thing I would suggest is to hold off coppering the hull until just before you are ready to mount it on whatever sort of fixture you plan to display it on. I made the mistake on my own Morgan of getting ahead of myself and coppering the bottom before I was done with having to handle the hull to apply some of the details.I ended up having to redo some of the copper ,especially at the stem and sternpost,and had a devil of a time keeping it from looking like the dog's breakfast.
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Hi Ed, You are right about the capabilities of those people in those times.The entire construction of one of these ships,especially the short time frame from start to finish seems incredible.Anybody who could step a 100 ft. mast 3 feet in diameter isn't going to be put off by a mere 360 lb. fid.I would just love to watch them in action.
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Ed,I have to say,this project is one of the most impressive things I have ever seen.I spent 35 years as a mining geologist working in a very complex mining project at depths some times exceeding 2200 feet.I have also built a full scale experimental aircraft with a 36 foot wingspan,and have been involved in several others,so I know skill,imagination,and creative thinking when I see it.This work is astounding.There is one thing I would suggest.I have been contemplating that fid.At 6x4x54 inches that is .75 cubic feet of presumably wrought iron which is going to weigh 365 lbs.or thereabout,given a specific gravity of 7.6 - 7.9 for wrought iron.It strikes me that that thing is going to be mean to handle in the narrow,and precarious space at the front end of that top without some way to get a purchase on it to support the weight until it can be slipped through the fid hole in the topmast.How do you suppose those old timers went about it? Of all the things man has created throughout history,nothing can rival the picture of a clipper ship in Flying Fish weather with all the kites out for sheer beauty in my opinion,for what it's worth.This project gives us a good view of just how they accomplished one of their creations.A grand piece of work!
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Some years ago there was a fellow in Guntersville Alabama started what was called "Ryder's Replica Fighter Museum".He had about 40 replica WW1 airplanes,many flyable,including two DR1's,a Camel,Nieuports,and many others.For two years,92 and 94,he put on a national WW1 flyin,with people from all over the country bringing in their own replicas for a week of flying.There was one gent with a replica Camel powered by a Stearman 225 Lycoming.He said getting it down on a paved runway was like putting it down on buttered glass.The Camel acquired a nasty reputation in 1918 because the gyroscopic forces of the rotary engine in such a short coupled airframe made it a real handful,especially on take-off.The vertical fin and rudder were very small relatively and that added to the difficulty in keeping it straight.If a guy survived in it long enough to master it,there wasn't much that could stay with it in a turning match,except maybe a DR1.You had to be careful going from one Camel outfit to another.They used several different engines,all with different fuel management techniques which could be quite tricky,especially on climbout if you let it get too rich.All in all a far cry from a Cessna 172!
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Kurt, Thanks for the reply.The old Fisher catalogs had listings of all the kit fittings,but can't recall if there were part #'s.It;s probably a lost cause,but thanks anyway.
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Kurt, A few posts back you mentioned having a trove of fittings from old school ship model companies such as A.J. Fisher.I have a set of plans for their three Island tramp steamer that I would enjoy building.Do you suppose a set of fittings is residing in your collection?
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Hi John, your KC is looking really good. I especially like your whaleboats. When I get to those for the Morgan, I ll have a look back at yours for reference. Ithink your solution for the forward davit is as sound as any. I bet that,if it was as I surmised in my earlier post,somebody was on the wrong end of some coal mine creole when they realized one of the davits would nt work.
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Great road trip you ve got laid out there. You are in for a good summer.The Morgan is coming along nicely,and looking good. How have you found it to be,rigging with the davits in place ?I have mine made,but have been thinking to put mine on after rigging is complete. Iam probably a bit too clumsy to get away with working around them.
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I read thi trilogy as a boy many years ago. The main thing I have taken from it is that,although he may well have been somewhat difficult,Bligh was avery competent seaman. Only a consumate sea officer and leader could have accomplished what he did. If I found myself voyaging to the largely unknown side of the planet, I would choose Captain Bligh to lead the expedition.
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Hi John, looking at your picture with the davit outboard, I can see another reason for doing it that way. With the davit inboard, the whale boat would be up against the aft corner of the fore channel when hoisted up well clear of the water. Avoiding that with the davit inboard would have required that it be longer than the others to extend further out. That probably explains the whole matter.They ordered 6 just alike,and only realized they needed one longer when it came time to install them. Rather than wait for another one,they just did this. People back then were no different than us,~~forever painting themselves into little corners .
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Looking at the drawings again and comparing cross section b~b with c~c it appears that the forward davit was placed outboard to avoid a conflict with the forward pinrail and to get the davit free of the shrouds and ratlines. That is the only reason that I can come up with. It seems to me,from an engineering standpoint ,it would have been simpler to have made minor allowances fo the standard davit. That is probably the conclusion reached by those who put that davit inboard with the others. Idont know what Ronnberg s reasoning was for showing it as he did , but I am sure he had a good one. He is recognized a having extensive knowledge of all aspects of the New England fishery.I would just do it as shown with a couple of u shaped brackets around the davit into the planksheer and mainrail, after removing the base and reducing the diameter at the lower end.
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I have an old set of KC drawings squirreled away. Let me go root them out and see what they show. Looking at those davits, I can see that they are more like modern davits than the ones on the Morgan. Why they had one outside the bulwarks is a mystery for sure.
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Have a look at Texxn5 s website.He has a section devoted to pictures of the actual C W Morgan. The second section of photos include some detail shots of the davits,lashing posts,and boat bearers. Ihave found these pictures to be very helpful in seeing just how some of these features actually were done.Iam working on davits for my Morgan project now,and am getting ready to work out their temporary attachment simutaneous with that of the deadeyes and chainplates. The davits and lashing posts on the Morgan are attached with brackets to the mainrail and planksheer. Ithink it would be a good idea to also pin each securely as well and just simulate the bracket to hide the pin.
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That would be really good. I would especially enjoy having it on your website. I know less than nothing about how to go about formatting digital photograghs for such. I will talk to my daughter about it next time I see her. She is a golly~gee ~whiz at anything to do with computers,wheras her father is totally baffled by computers~for~dummies.Although Idid get to be a fair hand with auto~cad back in my coal mining days,Iwas a lot like one of the apes over at the Yerkes primate facility. If I punched the buttons for bananas and apples,and a grapefruit appeared, Ihad no clue.
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Well, thereby hangs a tale. Idont have a computer. I have this thing that someone was ,shall we be kind and say,careless enough to call a ~smart~tv.. My commentary regarding my experience with it would probably get me banned from this site. It serves well enough as a web browser and for communicating like this,and email. There is no capacity to upload and transmit pictures or anything like that. Iwas planning to rectify matters,until Mr.Murphy managed to get wind of it.Ill have to put that off awhile. Maybe we could rig up a threeway deal whereby Icould send you some pctures through my aughter s computer and you could post them in the full profile of current builds section. Would that be workable as a stopgap until I can get loose from Mr. Murphy again?
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There are a few websites dealing with that sort of thing. Scaleshipyard.com offers fiberglass hull sets in several scales,mainly 1~96.They have some destroyers at 1~48. These are mainly directed at builders of operating models. Check out the guy holding up the 1~96 Nimitz. I might go that route. A 1~48 4 piper would be doable. At the other end of the scale spectrum is Modelshipgallery.com. These lads are working in 1~350 and 1~700. Some of the 1~350 stuff incorporating aftermarket PE sets are incredibly detailed,and some of the 1~700 looks nearly impossible to me. Fnally have a look at Navsource.org for pictures and specs of any ship you wish from about 1900 on, maybe a little earlier. Now,back to the last pair of Morgans davits,ten its on to the lashing posts and cranes. Sooner or later I ll have to square off against that accursed skylight. Have a good trip.
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What to do next is something needing some thought. The Morgan is a tough act to follow,and being such an interesting subject with sm many challenges to overcome makes many of the other possible choices sort of ho~hum by comparison. Im mulling over the idea of going in an entirely different direction,and doing something from the pre ww2 Navy. My father served a hitch in the Navy before the war and served on a number of interesting ships including BB35 Texas and an old 4 piper,DD130 Jacob Jones. I wish Iknew something about the Bluejacket outfits 4 stack destroyer kit.Ihate to send off 350 pieces of green paper not knowing whats gonna show up at the ktchen door in return.
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Thanks for the picture John.Unfortunately my drill press is not precise enough for so delicate an operation. I had to do mine by hand with a pin vise with a magnifier on a stand. After having to cut a couple of new davits from scrap I finaly got the hang of it .Hardening up the basswood with thin CA helped with keeping it from coming apart on me.Dubz,in his syren log summed up my opinion of using basswood for such a purpose. He said~This wood sux imo~.Eloquently put,that. Part of the trouble I have to admit comes from having to try to line up three little tiny holes with these 70 year old eyeballs.Hard to do even with a magnifier. But close enough that it will do. Your Morgan is looking really good,especially in the outdoor shots.Cant wait to see her fullyrigged out.Yours is the first Ive seen get that far. Anybody finishing a Mofgan deserves a medal for perseverance.
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Getting close. I am not too far from tackling the davits myself,although at a different point in the build sequence. I am considering just how to go about getting a triple sheave system in the ends of those kit supplied basswood davits. I think thatI m going to toughen the wood by saturating it with thin CA and let it harden up before drilling 6 little holes,and then maybe another shot before enlarging them. Does that sound reasonable?.I have made some really small bulleyes by end drilling some small birch dowel using that approach.
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Hello Foxy, I would just like be clear that I am not the least part of an expert at any part of this,especially planking. Ican state,however , that Iam at least one of the world s foremost experts on failed attempts to learn how to correctly plank a ship model. My first attempt was when around 1972 I got hold of a hull kit for the Norske Love. Definitely a poor choice for a first shot at planking . I had successfully completed the MS solid hull Vlante and Essex so I had some experience . Anyway, it came out looking like the dog s breakfast. It was nt until many years later that I enlarged a set of MS Dapper Tom plans to 1~48 and built is as POB that I finally succeeded at planking. That was because I had the MS1987 publication on planking built up ship models that they include in their Fair American kit. Iwould suggest getting a copy as Ifound it to be as clear and concise an explanation as I had ever seen. There are also some good practicums presented here as well.~~~~Gary
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The keys to succes with this are patience and persistance. Do overs are quite in order.
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This picture of the kit ~President~ is illustrative of why I would not recommend such to anyone just starting out. I know this is one of those double planked designs,but imo it has far too few bulkheads to facilitate laying a good foundation for the second layer. But even if you get something useable,it would seem far more workable,and less work at that,to have a solid hull to begin with. That would be a fine way to get the hang of planking. If one is of the opinion that their first effort is to be plank on bulkhead, I firmly believe that a kit designed from the outset as single layer POB would prove far more conducive to success and satisfaction. Ithink that anyone willing to take their time and study carefully the enclosed treatise on planking would find the MS Fair American to be a reasonable selection ,for a POB as a first effort.
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