harvey1847

Progress to date
Stations 2 to 16 yet to complete
Once this stage is done I intend to review them all together and assure their shape is consistent with the original plan (nothing looks out of place or odd).
When I am happy with this I will add an internal detail sketch (deck levels)
One step at a time ... long way to go before creating 3D part models (templates)
 
Alan

Today's progress....
Managed to get from -O- to Y Foward Section Lines done.
I measured these off the Body Plan and compared to the Half Breadth Plan.
They are not too far off and blend nicely .. but it took some manipulation of a few sections to look right.
 
So far I am happy with the out come .
Next are the Aft Section Lines.
But not tonight     
 
Alan

Thanks again!
Would you think it would be smart to set up the model build at an angle so the waterlines were horizontal for the build?
 
I got a wee bit of a second wind after supper and got a small start on the CAD side.
 
I should mention I am doing all at this time in construction lines not object lines.
I intend to copy the file as individual station numbers and then change the sketched lines to objects and build the 3D parts
Then I will create an Assembly file and put them together.
 
I may change this thinking as I progress ... have to see if it still makes sense.

My build log... back dated to what I consider my actual date of commencement up to today events.
 
31 Dec 2013
Found information on HMS Bellerophon on the internet which rekindled a spark.
 
My interest in the Billy Ruffian stems from my joining #141 Royal Canadian Sea Cadet Corps Bellerophon of Welland Ontario Canada in 1967 at 12 and a wee bit years of age.  I have not been involved in the cadet movement for over a quarter century now but those great memories haven't died away.
 
04 Jan 2014
Stumbled onto modelshipworld.com and after skulking about for an hour decided to join the group; intend to actually scratch build the first Bellerophon
Looking at various Arrogant class build logs (Vanguard & Bellerophon kits) Looking at Victory and Bellona build logs Looking at tools, build methods and little tricks used Overwhelmed with the work done by others and information available; realize how little I know; determined to do my homework. My last (and only) scratch build was a 27 ft whaler.  I was quite familiar with them (and the 30 ft. cutters) as I worked at the boat shed at HMCS Quadra for two summers. Found literature on rigging details on another site; looking for info on mast size details.
 
Got info for plans from forum to order from NMM. Found four plans:
HMS Arrogant (too early; they made changes to the design later) HMS Edgar (ordered well before but launched after Bellerophon) HMS Goliath (ordered after Edgar, launched before Bellerophon; should record the changes made from Edgar on) HMS Elephant (built same time as Bellerophon so may be the best plan). £60 each = $107 CDN ... pretty steep. E-mailed NMM to see if there was a “buy in bulk” price discount.  These plans are about 3 ft x 7 feet each. Not sure where I can lay them out to use and NMM insists they cannot be copied (to make a working set and keep these clean).  This presents a problem. I decided not to look at HMS Vanguard as it was the last of the ships built... well after the Bellerophon... and so might possibly have other changes.
 
11 Jan 2014
Realize if I download build photos and reference documents into folders from the FORUM and other sites and build my own reference library I will retain more of what I see in my memory (works for me as I am “hands on” type of learner).  This has kept me busy!
 
15 Jan 2014
My ex CPO (a modeller by night and Mechanical Engineer in the Pulp and Paper industry by day) recommended “The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625-1860 by James Lee; Found on Amazon and Abesbooks.com, pretty pricey at $100+
 
Found on inter-library loan (Gateneau, Quebec, Government Library, 3 week duration, 3 renewals, no charge); this will allow me to decide (for free) if I should buy the book.
 
Found Rigging Model Ships – A Practicum by Robert E. Hunt 2013 on forum  www.lauckstreetshipyard.com at $119 … once again quite steep
 
16 Jan 2014
Discovered there are two different figureheads for the Bellerophon; Downloaded photographs to my reference library. The first has only the neck and head remaining but is said to have been a full body. The second was torso and head. I intend to recreate the first using the second for inspiration!
 
30 Jan 2014
Received a collection of modelling reference books purchased from a member of this site.  Most turn out to be exactly what this sorrowful example of a modeler needs. Talk about an idiot`s luck!
 
08 Feb 2014
After some confusion (mostly on my part) I finally ordered and downloaded the TIFF ships plans from NMM.  Decided on the TIFF image as it is the clearest possible and I do not have the room to layout 7 foot long plans.
HMS Goliath, one image - lines HMS Elephant, two images - lines and deck plans  
It cost me £150 for the set of three (3) images. They gave me the three JPEG images (quoted at £50 a set) for free.  There is a considerable difference in detail between the two types of files.  I am not disappointed.
TIFF images are 729Mb, 722Mb and 905Mb JPEG images are quite small (1Kb or less) at 300 DPI  
My PDF program (from which I can measure) will not open the TIFF images because they are too large for it and the JPEG images are too grainy.
 
Converted the TIFFs to PDFs at 1200 x 1200 (Largest the program would allow) and they are very clear!
 
Now I intend to get my measurements off the electronic images and redraw in Solidworks to be able to create templates.  I will start my posting of images from here. Might be a while as I have to figure out quite a bit and the first step is always the hardest.  Once I have the plans partially redrawn I can make a final decision regarding the scale of the scratch build and degree of finish or completeness as I will also have to decide where the final display resting place might be.
 
I have stepped through to the dark side … no going back now, eh?
 
Following photos are clips taken from my PDF program showing how I intend to get my measurements.
 
I will use the scale provided on the drawings to convert my small measurements to full size.
It is difficult to get a perfectly vertical or horizontal measurement so I will need to use some old fashion trig calcs to make corrections like the straw man said in the wizard of oz; record all data in excel and then transfer the info to Solidworks.

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 46 –Inboard structural members continued
 
Work on the starboard side, inside of the hull, continued.  The iron strapping on that side is complete, except for a bit of repair work.  The first picture shows the use of an Incra rule taped to the paper cutter to assist in cutting the straps to accurate widths.
 

 
The sheet is first squared up on the cutter and then advanced 1/16” after each cut.  The indexing holes on the rule could be used, but I found this unnecessary and rely on my eye.
 
Below is a picture of strips after slitting on the cutter.
 

 
Fortunately, these straighten out easily and quickly when held in a vise and pulled with pliers.  After that they are blackened with LOS before installing.  They are held in place with copper “riveted bolts” made from 22-gauge copper wire.  These are more like nails, being pushed into a tight hole, then clipped off, then peened over with a small hammer – as shown below.
 

 
Once the strapping was finished, the deck clamps on this side could be installed back to the stern.  The next picture shows a scarph joint being marked on the next piece. 
 
 

 
Initially I fitted the next of these joints on the bench, but identifying them and keeping track became more trouble than doing it in situ – with equivalent results.
 
The next picture shows the right angle Dremel drill boring holes for the through bolts.
 

 
I don’t use this tool much.  It is large and has a good kick when starting, but it is indispensable for drilling “normal” bolt holes down in the hull.  I use it with a Foredom foot pedal speed control, plus the speed contol on the tool to keep the speeds low and to avoid it jumping out of the center-mark.
 

 
The 22-gauge copper wire used for the bolts is a sliding fit in the holes.  An end is dipped in epoxy and pushed through the holes.  The outside is then touched with epoxy and the wire pulled back in.  These bolts are never coming out.  They will be sanded off flush and those that are visible will be blackened later.  Many on this side will be covered with planking.
 
Fastening the deck clamps is pretty easy work, but the 8 x 8 ceiling members at the turn of the bilge are another matter.  The curve of the hull where they are placed can be seen in the next picture.
 

 
These require some serious clamping and long waits for the glue to set.  I usually bolt them in place with the epoxy wherever possible before removing the clamps.
 
I am being extra cautious – as well as authentic – in the bolting through every frame because of the copper plates between the frames and the inboard members.  I don’t trust the glue alone on these joints.  The hull is now becoming extremely rigid.
 
The last picture shows a strake of bilge ceiling being attached toward the stern – intersecting with the lower deck clamp.
 

 
This picture also shows the strapping toward the stern.  Not too much of it is damaged.  I straighten our any problems as each wood member is added.  Most of the strapping on this side will only be visible from outside the hull – through the frames.
 
And so it goes…
 
 Ed

talk to you soon
rekon54

rekon54

Hi
I wish you a happy 2014
 
last photos 2013 of the Fleuron
 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
rekon54

Getting there Allan, just have to finish these platforms ....
And Druxey, I suspect the blood is a sign - a message to suggest it is time to wrap it up for the night.
 
This update is just a note to show that I'm still at work, even if the progress doesn't show. I had been working on the aft magazine and got to the point of working on the light room. As there will be more light rooms in the forward magazine, I decided to see if I could mass produce these. To do this, I ripped a length of wood (Matai), then using the tilted blade on the table saw, cut the angles profile of the light box.

Then I milled out the enclosure to make a rough box ....

(this was a test piece that was discarded)
Which I then carved to form my interpretation of the light box ....

....Which was then discarded as the door was
Too high
Too wide
The cross boards were round the wrong way.
But the photo was quite good so I kept that
I then added the window frames to the box (but haven't done any glass for it), and it now resides in the magazine.

 
I had also added the "spiral staircase" access ladder as well

 
By this stage, I had spent considerable time working on this tiny room that in all likelyhood will never be seen ..... when the Vacuum God visited and sucked up my newly built light room access ladder
 
I took this as a sign that I should take a break from the Aft Magazine, and move on to the middle platform and lower well. So I left the aft platform in this state ....


 
And moved on. The deck beams were easy enough to do. I chose not to do any round up on them, milled the rabbet for the deck planks and chiseled the mortices for the carlings. Having checked their heights when sitting in the notches chiseled in the orlop deck clamps, I then started on the lower well. At this point I found I had a problem. The main mast step sits too far back if I allow room for the elm tree pumps (frame 7 aft), so has to be moved forward over the recesses.

 
I am unsure what I might have done wrong here, but to be honest I am comfortable with the way everything is sitting. I wonder if the elm tree pump recess should have been in frame 7 fwd and not 7 aft, or perhaps 8 aft, aft of the step and fwd of the chain pump recess? In this shot, the aft of the step is sitting on 8 fwd and extends over 7 aft, covering the recess.

This is the well in place, the main mast step has had the bolts and wedges fore and aft added, and I have put two blocks with dowel in place for positioning the chain pump shafts later.
 
Regardless of the above issue, I am more than happy with how the middle platform is turning out so far.

 
I am adding limber boards under the platforms as I go, mainly to try and stop all the scraps falling into the channels. When I get to the forward platform, I will be returning to the aft as well to add the racks and other furniture.
 
Cheers
Rob

Hello Gabe and Welcome Aboard!
 
And me... working on 1:48 Ays!!
 
Beatiful tools and hands. Hope this projesct will satisfied you!
 
welcome aboard again and happy modelling!
 
 
Daniel.
 
p.s. I made my Harvey back in 2006 and was an excellent ship to make.

I just finished my first ship model last weekend, I've got another kit on the go, but this Triton project looks really cool and will most definitely be educational. I'm really looking forward to this.
 
Smaller scales appeal to me for some reason. This works out well because our house is so jammed with stuff that I really don't have a lot of room to display models!

It has been a few weeks since the last update.  Not that much has been accomplished because of that four letter word...work.  I have all of the carlings temporarily installed, as well as the ledges between the carlings.  I am still adjusting the height of the last two deck beams.  The transom knee was made overly thick and now the top of the beams is lower than the top of the knee.  The knee will be sanded down once I am happy with the fair run of the deck. Beam set 16 is completed.  Only six more beams to go!  The bracing across the outer counter timbers has been removed for the pictures.  I decided not to build any more structures that stand proud of the deck until the deck is completed and sanded fair.  The main mast partner kept getting bumped when I was truing the middle part of the deck.  This should make sanding easier.
 

 

 

 

My general approach for fabricating and installing the beam sets has been one complete set at a time.  This worked well where there was no curvature of the hull but I had difficulty with the run of the outer carlings at the fore end of the upper deck and decided to change my approach as I neared the stern. I set out all of the beams and tack glued them in place.  I then drew fair lines for the outer carlings.  The deck beams were removed as I worked on them, only mortising the outer carlings.  The carlings were then tack glued without gluing the beam.  This continued until the last two beams.  The transom knee abuts the for end of the transom and extends along the hull just past beam 20.  It is set down on to the deck clamp and "bolted" to the frames and transom.  The last two beams are mortised into the transom knee.
 
The pictures show the run of the lateral carlings.  No finish shaping or sanding has been done yet.  I broke off the port counter timbers (again!) and just stuck it back on so that area looks out of whack.  I will probably have to remake it when it comes time to make the counter.
 

 

 

Thanks Ben and Floyd!
 
Putting aside the temptation to stick every piece of wood, plastic and metal in
the lathe and "turn it" I've placed the mortar in it's carriage.
 
Here she is set to be stowed.
 

 
And here it is set in firing position.
 

 
Now I can move on and attempt to turn some cannon barrels!!!!!!!  

Hi All, It's been a bit since my last post. Life, sub zero temperatures and feet of snow
have all conspired to slow me down. Well the lathe has arrived and the learning curve
is steep but the Sherline is a truly fine lathe. Thanks all for talking me into it.
 
I tinkered around turning some scraps trying to figure out what I was doing and one
mortar has been made. More coats of paint are needed and then it will be mounted
to the carriage.
 

 

 
The new carriages have also been made. Here is a comparison between the two.
 

 
After that the fun continues when I have to try and figure out how to turn two
cannon barrels. Well not only do I have to make two but for some reason they
have to match. Hmmmmm...........  

Hi Mark, I guess I'm very productive then cause I've surely made a mess.
 
No thumb twiddling going on here although work has gotten in the way a bit. As
suggested I cut as deep as I could and the used a jewelers blade to finish the cut.
 
Here is the first barrel painted and just set in the carriage.
 

 

 
 
Now comes the fun part! Trying to duplicate a second barrel that comes close to the first.  

Thank you all for stopping by and the likes.
 
Thanks Dubz.
 
Mark I wouldn't want to be standing next to when it was fired let alone be down range
when she let loose!
 
Thanks Bob I am really happy with how she looks.
 
Hi Grant. Sorry to disappoint but I played with one 1/2" dowel while waiting for the rod to arrive.
 
Now I will make a confession. Machine equipment is no stranger to me. When I was a
young'in I had training in machining engines. I could bore an engine block, hone a cylinder
or machine a head to a couple of thousandths. I just never played with a lathe. Also it's
been 37 plus years since I used any of that equipment  so I wasn't sure if any feel was left.
 
Now all you lathe users I have a bit of a bone to pick with you! No one ever mentioned how
messy these things are. Now I'm no neat freak by any means but man it makes a mess.
 

 
Here is a the cannon barrel turned to the correct taper .
 

 
And here it is completed except I have now realized that I don't have a cut off tool!
 

 
 Oh goody something new to get! I can see where this can be very addictive.      

I said this on the other site and needs repeating.
 
Are you working on this 24/7 or what?? You are doing great. I'm guessing that in a few weeks you will be done and working on the cross cut of the bomb vessel next.
 
Enjoy and it's looking real good and I do hear the singing in the back ground.
 
Later Tim

Greetings to all,
Here’s the latest update of my H.M.S. Triton cross-section. I went ahead and started working on the lower deck taking measurements from the frames and transferring them to my timber. When I had completed four of the five deck beams, I realized that I was in fact following the gun deck plans rather than the lower deck plans (way to go Murphy). What I then did was put aside the work I had thus far and got new timber to work on the lower deck with I might add, the correct plans. I then cut the new deck beams and carlings and glued them in place on top of the plans which was inside of a document protector so as not to get the plans glued to the bottom of my deck. After the deck was dry, I proceeded to cut the ledges one at a time and gluing them on the carlings after I slightly sanded the corners for a snugger fit. After everything was glued and dry, I slid the deck onto the deck beam clamps to see how she was starting to look and was quite pleased at the result. I was actually contemplating if I should go ahead and plank the frames but decided against it because I really like the way everything is coming along. What I will do is place a minimal amount of planking material on the outside frames starting two or three planks below the wales and working my way up. The following pictures will show you what I have so far.

I was wrong.... about tomorrow for pictures.  Keel #3 went well......  boxwood for the keel and ebony for the false keel.  I'll need to touch the keel notches lightly with a file later when I'm ready to mount it to the frames.  If you're so inclined, clicking on the pics will enlarge them.
 

 
 

Hello, I have placed some coasts yet to be finished, on a provisional basis
 
 

 

 

 

Thanks everyone for your best wishes and prayers.  We'll keep plugging along, what else can we do - - - right?
 
I do spend a few hours in the dockyard but it's slow going.  As soon as the deck is planked I'll take a few pics.
 
Cheers,

While I draw the square frames slowly I thought a slight digression is in order to the subject of the figurehead. Now the plans do not include one so I am left on best guess really. We do though have several paintings.
 
Lissa by Robert Dodd - Figurehad is a bust, might be wearing a wreath. The Amphion is notably smaller than the ship behind which is in turn larger than the one behind it. They are sailing extemely close together. All the ships are flying White ensigns at the read what looks like red ensigns at fore and mizzen peaks, the Amphion has a union jack at its bowsprit and a red commodores flag. The other ships show red commissioning pendants.  

 
Lissa by Whitcombe after a sketch by Midshipman Few (of the Amphion) - Union jack at the fore mast, a red triangular commodores flag (with a tiny tongue at the end), pendants as Dodd. Full figureheads (and similar on all ships). The ships appear in perspective and seem the same size. Red ensign at the rear and red ensign of the stays.  

 
Lissa by Whitcombe - another engraving off of a Whitcombe original except this time magically the pendant have gone white, the rear ensign is now white but the flag on the stays is blue except for the other ships wehich have white ensigns on the Mizzen  

 
 
 
Lissa by Dodd again. Figurehead is still a bust and vaguely looks like it might have a Hoplite helmet on, squadron ships also still showing white ensigns at the rear and what appears to be red elsewhere. Union jack at the bowsprit has gone  

 
Lissa by Pococok the younger - much less to see though you really get the differential sizes of the ship in the full painting. The bottom plate does show white ensigns at the rear but bugger all flags apart from the commissioning elsewhere.  

 
                  There is also a painting by a Lt Waldegrave which shows red ensigns at the rear and apart from the pendant/commodores flag a union jack on Actives Mizzen. This looks like a copy of the Whitcombe but I currently                   know little about this officer apart from  he possibly being from a famous naval family. A Waldegrave was                          also injured or kille dwhen Hoste had the Bacchante. Might be a co-incidence. More info needed really. This painting, the Pocock and the Dodd all show the ships with drivers whereas the Whitcombe derived do not.  

 
 
So looking at those paintings that include the bow of the ship we can rapidly see that they contradict one another enormously and come into two camps
 
Whitcombe - figurehead is a full figure though with little detail
 
Dodd - figurehead is a bust with slightly more detail.
 
Now both were known for accuracy of sails/rigging etc but of the two I have decided to go for Dodd for the following reason. In the mid 1790's (especially 1795) the British Navy went a bit decoration averse in their hurry to push out frigates as quickly as possible this means that a full figurehead is unlikely but a bust is possible as soon after restrictions eased again though the Navy never really went for the gaudy approach of the early years.
 
 
Now relating the above to what is known we do know that Hoste requested the ships move with flying jib-bom over the taff rail of  the ship in front (+1 Dodd) so to allow the French no chance to break the line. In terms of size the order went Amphion (Medium) Active (Large) Volage (Smallest) Cereberus (Medium) so (+2 Dodd).  Basically you can see the correct size differnential in both Pocock and Dodd but not Whitcombe.
According to his memoirs Hostes command pendant was a huge forked red one (+1 Dodd)
 
O'Brien states, "decorated with Union-jacks and ensigns at the different mast-heads and stays, independent of the regular red ensigns at the Mizen peaks, we hoisted a commodore's pendant at the Amphion's main". Something possibly used by James as he also says, "The British ships immediately formed in line ahead, with, besides the customary red ensign at their respective peaks, union-jacks and ensigns, blue and red, at their foremast heads and at their different stays"
 
But we know Hoste was under the direct orders of Vice Admiral of the White Sir Charles Cotton. So should show a white ensign to the rear as an indication of the squadron. This supports Pococok and Dodd and less Whitcombe though he appears hurt by having such an interesting variation in flags and as his (popular) plate was copied by other artists obviously had the flag colours changed.
 
 
On more general matters Amphion is usually show portrayed as a greek (so classical robes) holding a lyre. The previous full bust of the immediate preceding Amphion (exploded in harbour whilst under Israel Pellews command) does exist in plan form and shows this.
 

 
 
So I will keep on looking. Naturally given all the evidence if anyone else has any thoughts then please shout.
 
 
Joss

finally, we're going again. 
I have made ​​the machine colchar ends. 
testing it, burned the potentiometer, and I can not control the speed. 
but still can be used. 
the threads are old, to practice.

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 45 –Inboard members continued, Stern fairing and half-frame bolting continued.
 
American Clipper Historical Note: In 19th Century America, forest resources were plentiful, in fact they seemed limitless.  For these reasons, and due to the immaturity of the American iron industry, ships with wood structures continued to be built throughout the century and into the 20th.  Several domestic species found their way into American-built ships.  White oak, very similar in species to English oak was the primary material used for structural components.  However, the less plentiful but superior species, live oak from forests in the southeastern states, was often specified for critical components.  It was almost 50% stronger than white oak and the shape of the growth lent itself to knees and curved members.  Joshua Humphreys specified live oak for the original American 44-gun frigates and crews from the northern shipyards went south to harvest the requirements.  Another southern species that was widely used in American ships was hard pine, also known as longleaf pine.  This plentiful timber had 90% of the strength of white oak and was roughly the same weight.  Hard pine was used for beams, planking and knees.  White pine, the species most associated with the term “pine,” was lighter, softer and less strong – only about 50% in strength compared to white oak.  It was often used in planking weather decks.  Other species of pine – pitch pine, yellow pine, red pine – were also used.  Another important species was black locust.  Its hardness, straightness and strength – 35% stronger than white oak  - found wide use for treenails and often for pillars.  Various other structural woods were used, but these were the primary species.
 
Young America’s structure was largely white oak – most frames, central sections of the keel and keelson, stem, stern posts, hanging knees.  But it is very probable that a significant number of important members were of live oak – parts of keel and keelson, keelson riders, hooks, some frame timbers.  Hard pine was used for beams, inboard and outboard planking, waterways, deck clamps, binding strakes, lower deck  planking and deadwood.  Lodging knees would have been pitch pine.  Exposed decks were white pine.  Pillars and treenails were locust.  Other decorative works were of other species and will be described later.
 
For the model, I an using Swiss pear wherever oak – white or live – was used.  Hard and pitch pine members will be Castelo.  Weather decks may be holly – not decided.  Most of the work covered so far has been in pear, but Castelo has been evident in the last few posts in the bilge ceiling and deck clamp construction.
 
 
Work described in the last part continued.  In the first picture the deadwood near the sternpost is being smoothed with a #0 cut Grobet riffler after paring with gouges. 
 

 
When the fairing of the aft part of the lower hull was finished, the bolts securing the aft half and cant frames were installed.  The next picture shows this in progress.
 

 
Holes were drilled deep into the keelson/deadwood.  Copper wire dipped in epoxy was then inserted and moved in and out to distribute the glue internally.  The wire was then clipped off as shown.  The stains on the wood in the picture are  from isopropanol used to wash off excess epoxy and has not yet dried.  The heads of the bolts will be sanded off flush and blackened just before the final wood finish is applied.  They were iron.
 
The next picture shows the lower hull after this bolting.  Bolts will be much more visible when black.
 

 
Finish sanding and polishing of these areas will be done later.  The next picture shows the stern framing from directly aft.
 

 
Work inside the hull on the strapping, deck clamps and bilge ceiling continued.  In the next picture a strake is being glued on the upper side of the band.  Strapping below the bilge ceiling has been added.
 

 
One of the lower strakes is being glued in the next picture. 
 

 
After the glue has dried, all of these strakes are bolted through every frame with epoxy at both ends of each bolt.  These bolts, also iron, will be blackened later.
 
This internal work is going to take some time.  I switch between iron strapping and ceiling planks when I can - to battle the tedium of repetitive work – not my strong suit.
 
 
 Ed