-
Posts
596 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Reputation Activity
-
Vivian Galad reacted to Landlubber Mike in La Renommèe by Landlubber Mike - Euromodel - Scale 1:70
Some progress while home for the holidays with unseasonably cold temperatures - lots of hull work, and still lots more to do. For the first time, I built a basic frame board to help square things up. Usually I've just eyeballed things and built the hull in my lap, but I think using a frame should help. At this stage of the build, I also decided to do attached the keel and stem to the false keel. I know that some wait until after the first planking, but I like adding it now to help ensure that everything is square. I also install nuts in the false keel to take the machine screw which will run through the pedestals, so it's better to drill the hole one through the keel and false keel than have to do it later.
For the stem, I used a scalpel to initially scribe the various part definitions as per the plans. Will likely need to deepen them, and possibly use stain or pencil, to further define the lines -- especially after I taper the front of the stem per the plans:
After attaching the stem and keel, installing the pedestal nuts and running a few brass rods to help pin the keel to the false keel to the hull for stability, I started installing the bulkheads and am about halfway through -- using my kids' legos to keep everything square:
As I mentioned in the first post, when I got the kit (secondhand), the false keel was really warped. The really nice folks at Euromodel sent me a new one for free which was much better. It still had a slight wave to it, but after adding the stem and false keel, and the bracing blocks as seen in the pictures above, everything is pretty straight and should only get straighter after the two decks are added.
I should say that the fit between all the parts is very nice and snug and pretty much perfect. Nice, particularly after my experience with the MS Charles Morgan where I needed to do quite a bit of work to get everything to fit correctly and adjust for issues in the shapes of the bulkheads.
-
Vivian Galad reacted to Landlubber Mike in La Renommèe by Landlubber Mike - Euromodel - Scale 1:70
I've been focused on my Morgan build the past few months and haven't turned back to my LAR. In part I'm still considering what kind of color scheme, and whether and to what extent I will use paints or try to paint with wood. Given the castings and the quality of the materials, I'm considering just building the kit as is, with maybe some minor replacement of the wood with better modeling woods. I might actually try using weathering techniques, not necessarily to make the ship looked aged and beaten up, but to add highlights and lowlights, etc. to approximate more of a patina'd look.
So I managed to get my hands on the Ancre monograph of La Belle Poule (1765) for a good price on eBay. The monographs have so much detail they are fun to look through. Flipping through it today, I noticed a reference to a La Renommee of 1767 and the Chapman 'Architectura.' The version I have is in French, and not speaking French I need to use Google translate which does a pretty good job. Here is the translation of the discussion which is summarized above regarding the provenance of the ship. The monograph has plans for the 1767 La Renommee, which don't look like they match up with the kit/Chapman plate. Anyway, here it is.
The Fame 1767.
Among the hundred frigates of 12 of our navy, there are two that will be (pierced to fifteen) being designed by the engineer Nicolas Groignard man of great reputation, notably author of the three-point ship Brittany.
These frigates, by their great length and strength, are special cases. The Renommee had been preceded by the Terpsichore, built at Nantes in 1757, we do not possess the plans of this frigate.
The Fame, was theoretically pierced on each side of fifteen ports, but on the number two were not open being masks by the curling and the linings. It was only planned to open them in the event of hostilities.
The plans of the Fame are preserved in the Danish archives and there exists at the Museum of the navy in Paris, a fairly complete numerical estimate of this frigate.
The Fame, presented the singularity for a French frigate to have the big bitts on the false bridge, the hawks being pierced between the jottereaux.
In the methodical Encyclopedia Vial du Clairbois (see Monograph of Dawn, page 18, footnote 1), the model of a Swedish frigate, directly borrowed from the The great work of Fr. DE CHAPMAN: ARCHITECTURA NAVALIS MERCATORIA ... In his text Vial du Clairbois warns the reader of the foreign model of his example and indicates that only the frigate Fame, has big bits on the false bridge and consequently the Lower capstan bell is at this level.
Admiral Paris, in his (Preserved Naval Memories), took again the plate of the Methodical Encyclopedia, but without taking notice of the text, and presented this frigate (born Swedish) as being Renown; But this is only to be found in detail in the considerable mass of information gathered by Admiral Paris.
-
Vivian Galad reacted to Landlubber Mike in La Renommèe by Landlubber Mike - Euromodel - Scale 1:70
Friends, I'm a bit stuck in terms of a color scheme for the hull. I was originally going to go with a similar approach that Kenji Nakajima's build took (first picture at the top of my log) and go with mostly black and either walnut or pear for the brown areas, with boxwood accents. But, after seeing Chapman's plans for the Venus and the two builds for the Göta Lejon, I'm thinking of trying something different. In particular, I'm really taken by the color scheme on this model:
If I went that route, does the blue strip running across the full hull look odd? Does it look odd to have the dark brown areas just above that blue stripe? I haven't seen too many ships with this color scheme, but it seems like these Swedish ships might have had a slightly different color scheme from other European ships.
An alternative is Chapman's color plan of the Venus, which is similar, except it looks like a black stripe runs across the top of the hull, but there is a red stripe at the top near the quarterdeck:
Alternatively, I could go with something like this color plan, where it's mostly black and pear around the gunports, with blue at the top of the hull at the quarterdeck and forecastle:
Any suggestions or preferences would be greatly appreciated as I try to figure things out. To avoid the use of paint, I'd do the hull below the waterline in holly, wales in black, and that middle band around the gunport likely in pear (I think box might be a little light for my tastes). It's just what to do with the other areas of the upper hull that I can't decide on Thanks!
-
Vivian Galad reacted to Landlubber Mike in La Renommèe by Landlubber Mike - Euromodel - Scale 1:70
Thanks guys, really appreciate the support. Jason, I'll have to do a little more research
I spent some time with the kit the last few days. First I test fit the bulkheads with the keel, and was happy to see that there was a nice snug fit without the need for much opening of the slots. So, a good start on things.
Then I read Pete's build notes - a very nice resource for Euromodel builds. He correctly pointed out that the mast slots in the keel are incorrectly positioned. Not only are the slots positioned too far back, but the main mast and mizzen masts are at the wrong rake. Pete did say that the foremast needed to be repositioned another 3mm, but at least with my keel, it seemed like the foremast slot was maybe off only 1mm or so, if at all, and was at the correct rake. Interestingly, the keel matches Plan Sheet 17, but not Plan Sheet 3. My guess is that Plan Sheet 3 is correct, after looking at other plan sheets in the kit and taking a look at Chapman's Plate XXXI. So, I redid the slots for the main and mizzen masts, which included adding some scrap plywood so that the masts would fit snug in the slots. Thankfully Pete pointed this out, as it was an easy fix at this stage.
I had heard of people having issues with the plans not matching up, and that does seem to be the case unfortunately. Interestingly, the stem matches Plan Sheet 17 (first picture below), but not Plan Sheet 3 (second and third pictures). You can even see how the bulkhead slots on the plans don't match up with the slots in the keel:
The stem is pretty close, but this brought back painful memories of the Corel Unicorn kit, which I abandoned in frustration because the plans were all over the place, and on top of that, did not match the Chapman plans in the Architectura in having a hull that was too tall by a factor of something like 20mm. So, I spent some time taking various measurements (gunports to waterline, waterline to bottom of keel, etc.) against Chapman's Plate XXXI. In my edition of the Architectura, Plate XXXI is smaller than the Euromodel plans by a factor of approximately 2.3. I am very happy to say that the Euromodel plans appear spot on with the Chapman plans in terms of hull dimensions!
I do want to say that I don't want to come across as overly critical of the kit or anything. Just wanted to point these items out so that others that might be following this log might avoid any confusion with their kits. Aside from a few inconsistencies, the plans seem very true to Chapman's Plate XXI which is a big relief.
Next I started work on determining where to install the mounting screws for the pedestals. I've been using #6-32 zinc plated machine screws with a nut epoxied into the keel. They seem to fit nicely through the pedestals I bought from Model Expo, and I can get the screws in 3" lengths. The stern is a bit lower than the stem, so I started by marking the waterline, and then positioned the pedestals approximately 25% of the way from both the aft end and fore end of the keel. This worked nicely in that the pedestals were safely between bulkheads. I'm still considering color schemes, so I'll drill the holes for the screws/nuts once I figure out the wood to be used for the keel. Here's a quick photo I snapped, with some bonus artwork in the background from the real artists in the family
-
Vivian Galad reacted to Landlubber Mike in La Renommèe by Landlubber Mike - Euromodel - Scale 1:70
I haven't been able to find much on Swedish frigates on the period. One ship I did come across is the Göta Lejon from 1746. I found plans as well as two beautiful models. It's obviously a bigger ship (I think a Third Rate), but it shares a lot of the design characteristics seen in Chapman's Plates XXXI and XXXII of his Architectura. This, along with the Venus pictured a few posts ago (and the closed waist), make me lean towards thinking that the ship in the plates is a Swedish vessel.
-
Vivian Galad reacted to Landlubber Mike in La Renommèe by Landlubber Mike - Euromodel - Scale 1:70
Provenance of Kit
There has been a lot of discussion on what ship this kit is supposed to represent. What is clear is that the kit is based on Plates XXXI and XXXII of Chapman's Architectura, with the only details being that these plates are included in the section of "Privateers":
Euromodel states it's a French vessel that was launched in 1747. However, it appears that the ship at the following links is likely the "true" La Renommee for that period:
http://ancre.fr/en/monographies-en/20-monographie-de-la-renommee-fregate-de-8-1744.html
http://maquettes-marine.pagesperso-orange.fr/renommee/renommee.html
http://www.shipmodels.com.ua/eng/models/elite/renomme/index.htm
From what I've read on a Russian ship model forum, in Boudriot's research, Admiral Paris, a Frenchman, in his Souvenirs de la Marine (which was published in 1879), was copying over plans from Chapman's Architectura and mistakenly labeled it the Le Renommee, when he was intending to say something about the anchors or stern or something being similar to the Le Renommee. That mistake has been passed down, and may have been passed down into this kit.
Then there is Keith Julier, in The Period Ship Handbook 2, who believed that the kit represents a frigate of the same name that was built in 1793. That vessel only had 32 guns, while the kit supplies 40. It clearly can't be that ship because the Architectura was published in 1768.
Then there are others that think it's actually a Swedish ship named the "Jupiter" because of the figurehead and certain stern details. On page 106 of Wolfram zu Mondfeld's "Historic Ship Models" is the exact picture of the stern which is labeled as the Swedish privateer from 1760. The German site below, as well as a Russian model ship forum I came across, also think it's a Swedish ship. I can't find anything on a Swedish ship named the Jupiter though, and a query to the Digitalt Museum in Sweden came up empty.
http://www.line-of-b...regatte-jupiter
I'm by no means a naval historian at all, but all this is very interesting. One thing I was thinking was whether there were particular features of this ship that are uniquely French, Swedish, Danish or other. I would surmise that you could look to plainly visible things like the figurehead, ornamentation, flags, etc. Then there are structural items such as how the stern is constructed, height between the decks (for example, I learned in researching the Unicorn and Lyme that they were based off of French frigates, which had a lower height between the decks than seen in the typical English ship of that time, as well as had shorter railing, etc. on the quarterdecks). I thought maybe the open stern would provide a clue, but Plate III shows a very similar but smaller (and unfortunately, unknown) ship, and Plate LI shows another with a similar open stern that is of an English East Indiaman.
One clue might be the waist. I've done a lot of research on the waist of ships because the Corel Unicorn clearly uses the wrong waist for a British frigate of that time. From the Gardiner books on frigates, the waist of ships in the 18th century was generally open during the early to middle part of the century, and gradually started closing up as the 19th century approached. I think this principle clearly applied to British ships, and likely French ships as well (I don't have any books on French frigates, but flipping through the Ancre monographs for ships at the time, all seemed to have similar open-waisted ships to the British). Gardiner seems to have essentially limited his studies to British frigates, as his last book, the "Sailing Frigate," uses pictures from the NMM. In that book, he shows the development of the filling in of the waist, and shows a similar closed waist with row of light gratings similar to Plate XXXII with the Lacedaemonian (SLR0674 from the NMM), a ship that was circa 1812:
http://collections.r...ects/66635.html
What's curious is that Plate XXXII shows a very closed waist which wasn't used by the British until the beginning of the 19th century. So, I don't think Chapman copied it from the British. Then take a look at the Venus, an actual Swedish frigate that was designed by Chapman and built in 1783 (it was captured by the Russians in 1789):
A smaller ship for sure, and obviously post-dates the Architectura. But look at the general design with the gunport rows, small windows at the quarterdeck, the name badge just under the row of windows on the stern, and in particular, the waist and main deck with the rows of gratings (again, not seen in British frigates until the beginning of the 19th century). It looks like the little younger sister to Plate XXXI!
All this is not at all meant to disparage Euromodel. The kit is clearly based on, and true to, Chapman's plans. As we know, actual ships sometimes differed from the plans, ships were captured and converted, etc. In any event, whether Chapman himself designed the ship in Plates XXXI and XXXII or copied it from elsewhere is anyone's guess, but I would lean towards this being a Chapman design given the early adoption of the closed waist and line of gratings. Now, whether the ship in Plates XXXI and XXXII was in fact built or not is also anyone's guess. And does this make this a Swedish ship?
In the grand scheme of things, does any of this matter? The kit makes for a very nice model of a mid-18th century frigate with really beautiful lines that I will have a lot of fun building - regardless of whether I put a French or Swedish flag on her in the end
-
Vivian Galad got a reaction from popeye the sailor in Eight Sided Drainage Mill by flying_dutchman2 - FINISHED - scale 1:15 - Achtkante Poldermolen
Wow! That's an interesting project to follow! Will take a seat too! Can I?
-
Vivian Galad reacted to md1400cs in Santisima Trinidad by md1400cs – FINISHED - OcCre - 1/90 - cross-section - bashed
Minor update that includes some frustrations, using the kit supplied planks; I thought that I would try also using Pinstripe tape to simulate the caulking.
Initially I liked it. Labor intensive, because each strip needs to be located exactly at the upper edge of plank on both sides.
Then after a few of those realized that running tape all the way aft was a waste. This area will be filled with rocks, barrels, and poss. adding a shelf on the side to add spare timber and ropes.
Ok: then after installing a few basswood planks – did not like the look of the much too white wood. Yes I could stain it…
Then looking at the profile grrr –these kit supplied planks look way too thin – and out of scale?, especially with the weight of the ballast rocks that these planks need to support.
SO, looked through my wood supply, will pull these basswood planks off, and replace them with some hardwoods. I do believe, however that oak was probably the correct planks that should be installed – not these darker woods, hmmm
And I just drilled small holes for the treenail look – not happy with that either.
I have looked at other logs that do an excellent job with real treenails –need to improve my skills in this area – and for this area it only requires the first row to be done.
Lastly that pinstripe tape looks much too “perfect”. Went to Blicks today and per Denis’ recommendation for his riverboat will use a Faber Castell artist pen. Tried it, looks much more "unevenly realistic". (Had used a Sharpie but too wet..)
Will update when this area is resolved. As always thanks for your support, suggestions, help, likes and just dropping by.
-
Vivian Galad got a reaction from Elijah in Eight Sided Drainage Mill by flying_dutchman2 - FINISHED - scale 1:15 - Achtkante Poldermolen
Wow! That's an interesting project to follow! Will take a seat too! Can I?
-
Vivian Galad got a reaction from Piet in Eight Sided Drainage Mill by flying_dutchman2 - FINISHED - scale 1:15 - Achtkante Poldermolen
Wow! That's an interesting project to follow! Will take a seat too! Can I?
-
Vivian Galad reacted to flying_dutchman2 in Eight Sided Drainage Mill by flying_dutchman2 - FINISHED - scale 1:15 - Achtkante Poldermolen
Welcome aboard, thibaultron, amateur and Jack.
Jan: no interior, waterscrew or wheel. For my first garden windmill that is way over my head and the plans don't call for that. Will be looking for something like that in my next mill.
Thank you for the pictures of the different windmills.
I plan to add the cloth on the frames. Joanne sewing store has nice heavy brown cloth. I saw that when I bought the sail cloth for the Utrecht.
This or next week I will get the 'outdoor' plywood in several thicknesses. I have created all the templates on heavy cardboard, so it is time to start it.
I completed the two windows and doors and casements for the items. Still needs to be primed, painted and several coats of lacquer.
The acrylic colors I am using are: titanium white, van Dyk green, medium cadmium red, dark cadmium red, cobalt blue, Mars black, yellow ochre, and orange. (some of the colors are the same as the Utrecht). The instructions also call for chocolate brown powder.
Once I get to the items that need painting, I will mention the color I am using.
This project will be slow going as I am also building a Boyer, another scratch boat and spring, summer and fall I spent a lot of time outside.
Marcus
-
Vivian Galad reacted to flying_dutchman2 in Eight Sided Drainage Mill by flying_dutchman2 - FINISHED - scale 1:15 - Achtkante Poldermolen
Besides building ships, I build windmills as well. This eight sided drainage windmill is a replica of one that is still in existence. When my father retired from the Dutch foreign service he worked in this mill as an accounting manager and gave me the plans of this garden windmill.
Dimensions:
Roof height 28-1/2"
Max. Height 48-1/2
The plans, dimensions and how to build it are all in Dutch. So first I took all the measurements and recalculated them in inches so I know how much wood to purchase. Once I have all the wood I can go back to mm.
The axel and other metal parts for the vanes I searched on Google, got a picture and recognized what it was so I know what to ask for in the store and I know my plumbing lingo.
This goes for some of the wood as well.
In Dutch M18, stands for multiplex watervast and the 18 is the thickness of the wood in mm. So in English the M is plywood for outdoors and 18 is about 3/4" thick. Did this with all the M's. Other wood involved is 1/8" Baltic birch and hardwood (any type). The outdoor plywood I can get at a big box store. I have plenty of hardwood in all sizes.
Other parts are copper and aluminum tubing, outdoor glue, tile glue to imitate the straw sides, glossy paint, primer, acrylic paints, etc. Waterproofing I am also using a spray can with that foam in it and lots of lacquer.
Xeroxed two copies of the plans and started gluing templates on stiff cardboard and cut them out.
Also cut out the 2 doors and 2 windows. Instead of using glass for the windows I'll use plexiglass. These will be painted van Dyk green.
Marcus
-
-
Vivian Galad reacted to Piet in Licorne 1755 by mtaylor - 3/16" scale - French Frigate - from Hahn plans - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED
Super nice looking work Mark.
Cheers,
-
Vivian Galad reacted to mtaylor in Licorne 1755 by mtaylor - 3/16" scale - French Frigate - from Hahn plans - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED
Thanks for the likes, the comments and the following along on this adventure.
The first 12 guns are installed on the port side with their breeching ropes. The traversing tackle is waiting for some Chuck Blocks. I've drilled the holes and installed the eyebolts for the when the traversing tackle needs to be moved to pull the guns in manually along. Also installed were the eyebolts for securing the ship's boats. Holes have been drilled for more eyebolts for the mainmast running rigging. Those are also on hold until the blocks arrive as I'm not about to try to rig blocks to the eyebolts in place. The breeching has been seized to the eyebolts but instead of the two seizings shown in various references, I only did one. My eyes have begun crossing... and I have the starboard side to do yet.
There's a couple of guns not quite in perfect alignment with the rest but I can live with that.
I'm holding off on the deck furniture until all the guns are installed and all the gun tackle is installed. I'm not going to go through the "oops, broke something" any more if I can avoid it. For those keeping score... three carriages were broken in the pursuit of installing them and re-made from the extra parts I made. Fragile little things they are.
Anyway, enough of my blathering on, here's the pictures.
-
Vivian Galad reacted to Omega1234 in Licorne 1755 by mtaylor - 3/16" scale - French Frigate - from Hahn plans - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED
Hi Mark
...Not deliberately taking the focus away from the guns, but, man oh man, seeing the photos of the hull has suddenly reminded me of just how good a planking job you’ve done. Very nice, Mark, very nice indeed.
Cheers.
Patrick
-
Vivian Galad got a reaction from Piet in Licorne 1755 by mtaylor - 3/16" scale - French Frigate - from Hahn plans - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED
Would always go for the bigger scales - don't know what admiral would say though. Great advance on canons, Mark. They're comming alive!
-
Vivian Galad reacted to Tigersteve in English Pinnace by Tigersteve - FINISHED - Model Shipways
The rear panels were fitted and installed one piece at a time onboard. The bottom strip of each panel was slightly edge-bent to follow the curve above the cockpit seats. I skipped making the template and jumped right into this. I think the single panels change it up a bit.
The panels really should be somewhere in between 1/16” and 1/32” wide in my opinion. Unfortunately, mine are not. ;-)
Steve
-
-
-
Vivian Galad reacted to md1400cs in Santisima Trinidad by md1400cs – FINISHED - OcCre - 1/90 - cross-section - bashed
Paul,
Thank You. Learning as I am going along. Went to Google University to look up limber boards, Now I understand thanks again,
will cut them up a bit.
Please mates, anytime - I so appreciate your advice as I go along. still learning
Such a fun hobby indeed !
-
Vivian Galad reacted to mtaylor in Licorne 1755 by mtaylor - 3/16" scale - French Frigate - from Hahn plans - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED
I'm going to ignore the 2mm blocks on the guns. I've ordered 3mm and 4mm blocks from Chuck. I hope the 3's work but I'll with the 4's if I have to. What ever's left over will used for rigging (along with another order to Syren. Very slow going at present so no pictures or updates until the cannon are in place and rigged.
-
Vivian Galad reacted to Tigersteve in English Pinnace by Tigersteve - FINISHED - Model Shipways
The eight midship panels are completed. To accomplish this I created a template to capture the correctly sized rectangle. 1/16” wide maple strips were sanded and coated with Wipe-On-Poly prior to cutting the mitors. A jig was created to size, assemble, and glue the panels. After they were assembled, another sanding and coat of WOP was applied.
The “fancy” profile was omitted. Many logs I viewed showed folks adding this detail, but at 1/32” thick almost none could produce a profile as clean as in Chuck’s prototype. Mike Y had the cleanest profile, btw. I created a scraper and tried it out, but even with hard maple it was difficult. I decided to save the hours on this detail and move forward. (It’s extremely tiny with the naked eye, but looks huge in photos.)
Next task is to figure out the configuration of the rear panels. I will try a modification: one longer panel instead of two shorter panels. Another template will be made to see how it looks.
Steve
-
Vivian Galad reacted to Tigersteve in English Pinnace by Tigersteve - FINISHED - Model Shipways
Helmsmen seating completed. This task was trickier than I thought, but that’s to be expected at this point.
Steve
-
Vivian Galad reacted to md1400cs in Santisima Trinidad by md1400cs – FINISHED - OcCre - 1/90 - cross-section - bashed
Hi mates
Thanks for the likes and comments. I pulled four brass out - added black nylon fishing line, but preferred the brass pins.
I agree Jim love these as well.
Now started working on the inner planks. Longridge, again my guide.