Windings around anchor winch ?

[Senior ole salt]

Which way should the lead coming in from the  hawse pipe anchor cable go first, around the thicker portion of the tapered horizontal winch barrel , or the smaller diameter  and then to the storage area of the anchor cable?

 

Thanks 

 

S.O.S.

[shiloh]

The responses to this will be revealing.

jud

[mtaylor]

SOS,

 

By anchor winch... can you show a picture?  Maybe give us an era?  Steam or manual?   Modern or old?  

[Senior ole salt]

The windlass in question is for my model of John Paul Jones first command in the Continental Navy, the Sloop Providence. I guess it might be similar to the "Cheerfull" cutter shown on this forum. Also would the cable go below via a rope deck pipe or a real hatch? The plans I have is a more modern version of this vessel showing an electric windlass. My model must reflect the 1776 original sloop.

 

Thanks

 

S.O.S.

[mtaylor]

Ah.... have a look here:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10379-windlass-on-1815-revenue-cutter/  I think that will answer most of your questions.  As for the pipe or hatch.. I would think hatch for rope.  

[Senior ole salt]

I found this image on the internet. ( right side) It seems it goes around the thickest part first. Assuming the top part of the image is forward.

 

Interesting to see how the payed out anchor cable is secured.

 

SOS

[catopower]

Funny, but I ran into the same question today...

 

I'm working on a 1770s colonial schooner with windlass. I just got the line for the anchor cables in the mail today and went to mount them. Then, I realized I wasn't sure which way to run them. I was trying to look at photos of Harold Hahn's work, but, dare I say, I think he might have it wrong. It's actually kind of hard to say as the photos I have don't show the windlass very clearly. Most photos are about the general structure of his models, not on the rigging details. But, I think he has the anchor cable coming off the bottom of the windlass and backwards from the way Harland describes in his book.

 

So, SOS, I think you're right. In Harland's book on page 263, bottom of first column, he writes "The cable was taken three times around the barrel, the turns coming off the top, the inboard part being kept to the outer end, to facilitate fleeting the turns." 

 

 

Clare

[JerseyCity Frankie]

The direction of how the line is lead around the barrel of the windless is determined by where the Pawl is set. In the drawing above there are two Pawls conveniently labeled "C". They are hinged where they are attached to the bits or samson post and gravity keeps them flopped over to the deck. They are long enough to fall into the square holes cut into the barrel of the windlass (marked "M" on the drawing). With the Pawls in place the windlass can only turn in one direction as the pawls in the square holes will prevent it from turning in the opposite direction. THIS determines which way the line will be lead around the barrel. Pawls are also found on Capstains where they perform the same function. The line will lead across the top and toward the viewer in the drawing above.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

As in all things relating to friction being applied to a line, there are always three turns around the objects the line is being belayed to. There will never be more than three turns on a windlass or a capstan. Never less then three either. Three turns around an object provides just enough friction to halt the "crawling" of a line under strain. Something with a tremendous amount of stain will need to be Tailed and this means someone is assigned to keeping the bitter end of the line under strain too- to keep friction on the first turn while the line is being hauled. In the drawing some seizings have been clapped on to hold the turns.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

The original question seams to be about in what direction horizontally do the three turns go on across the width of the barrel. If the barrel didn't taper it wouldn't matter. But this one does and so do most other winch barrels. Here I am fuzzy but I think, in my gut, the drawing above is wrong. Here is why I think this: One turn, if it were put on the barrel as far inboard as it could be-around the thickest part- will want to slip outborad to the thinner part. So if I put on three turns going from thick to thin-as in the drawing- the first turn is going to want to slip outboard and gang up against the second turn. The worst thing that can then happen is a "Wrap" where the incoming anchor line takes a turn OVER one of the other turns, locking it in place. Anyone who has done any modern sailing with winches for the sheets has experienced a Wrap on the winch. It locks the line in place preventing you from tailing any more line off the bitter end and you have to ease the line back out-if you can-to get the wrap off the lower turns. With tremendous strain on a line you have to ease the hard won line back out of the ship to try to get the wrap off the other turns.

Its possible the wrap could be avoided if there was a guy with a handspike making sure the incoming line wrapped fair on the windlass, then this issue would not be a problem.

Edited February 9, 2016 by JerseyCity Frankie

[popeye2sea]

There was something like a standing wedge that could be inserted into the barrel of the windlass called a battledore (?)  that would keep the line from surging over itself.

 

Regards,

[Senior ole salt]

I'm leaning toward what Frankie said in post #10 . Mistakes in previously published art and explanations are not uncommon. Perhaps other knowledgeable modelers will chime in.

 

S.O.S.

[jbshan]

The pawls are the indicator as to the turning of that windlass, yes.  You would put in your bar and pull toward the viewer, so forward on the vessel is to the top of the picture.

The cable would go to the cable tier through the corners fo the hatch cover that were 'left out' when the cover was made.

The cable would have been lashed with eyebolts and stoppers to both the standard knees of the windlass and to eyebolts in the deck, all forward of the windlass.

The port side cable is loosened and held off the drum with lashings.  It too would be lashed with stoppers to keep its anchor from running out if the anchor broke free.

[Senior ole salt]

Thanks Spyglass for that link. Fascinating  stuff there. 

 

SOS