America 1851 by mojofilter - FINISHED - Mamoli - Scale 1:66 - First wooden ship build

[mojofilter]

Thanks for the link to Block-Tumbler!!  What a great forum!!!

 

So I've been 'dressing' the blocks one at a time - what a pain.

It's gotta be done, the blocks as provided are unacceptable, even by my rank amateur standards.

 

 

 

 

So, I got into the newly opened Mantua Cutty Sark Box and dug out the blocks.  Better but still need some attention.

 

 

 

Seizing the blocks . . .

 

 

 

Since there are 19,258 blocks on Cutty Sark, I will either buy or build a block tumbler.

Edited May 6, 2016 by mojofilter

[mojofilter]

I just went to Chuck's Syren Ship Model Co. site to look at their blocks - WOW!!  I wish I'd seen them before I started seizing blocks onto the deck.  They are beautiful!

In reviewing my posts, I didn't order replacement blocks from Ages of Sail, it was deadeyes.  I will order the blocks from Syren for the CS.

 

I have an amateur's question though - Why are there two holes per sheave on their blocks?  Do you just use the 'far' holes?

 

- Tim

Edited May 6, 2016 by mojofilter

[Elijah]

I have also ordered Soren blocks for my ship, not that I need them at the moment. The reason they have two holes per sheave is to simulate the sheave. I lack a picture, but if you look up ships block or something you may be able to see his on a real sail ship. Blocks are just another word for pulley on a ship, and they were used as pulleys. You only use the farther one because the wood in the center is the spinning wheel. If you used the close one, the rope would be trying to pass over hard wood at the bottom of the block. That would be much more difficult to pull than over the wheel in the center !

Edited May 6, 2016 by Elijah

[GuntherMT]

You have discovered one of the super easy and obvious ways to improve the looks of your completed model!

 

Another super easy way (and makes the rigging easier as well) is to replace the kit provided rigging line.  Every kit I've gotten so far has terrible rigging line and typically not in proper scale.  I replaced all of my line even on my very first model with Syren line, and I don't regret a penny spent on that.

[mojofilter]

I shall look into the rigging line at Syren.  The plans in the kit call for number 25, 40, and 80 line.  I have no idea what that means.  I don't know what size I would order.  I can see relative line size on the plans and certainly the shrouds and fore and back stays are the largest.  

No clue on the Arthur C. Montgomery plans as to the size.

They do mention that the mast rake is '2 3/4" to the foot'  I'll get out me measur'n sticks and do the trig, but the mainmast is glued in so it is what it is.

 

Any help on line size would be great!

 

- Tim

[hamilton]

Hi Tim:

 

The .25 .40 and .80 refer to the diameter (or thickness) of the rigging line - in metric! I believe Chuck has both imperial and metric gauges listed for his rigging line - the dimensions may not be exact (a little thicker or thinner) but they'll be close enough and his rigging line is (as others have noted) excellent. If you've got some money to burn, I'd recommend the investment - not only for the way it looks, but for the fact that it is so easy to work with!

hamilton

[mojofilter]

So the rope from Syren arrived.  My first attempt at serving:

 

 

I served about 1 1/2" at the bottom end with black thread for around the deadeye.  Then seized it.

 

 

I then went from the top of the deadeye seize to about half way with white thread, then served the top inch with black thread again for around the mast (not shown)

 

 

 

 

I think the seize at the top of the deadeye is too long and fat.  I might try the next size down on the shroud rope.  I also think I'll not go quite as high on the white serving.  But I do like the effect and believe I'll go with this rather than paint.

 

- Tim

[hamilton]

Hi Tim:

 

This looks good! Was it easy to get the hang of the serving machine? The results are really fantastic....I think I will take the same approach - if I ever get that far!!

hamilton 

[mojofilter]

Hi Hamilton -

Building the machine is straight forward, although the laser cut bits are nice and tight.  If you buy the Syren server, don't be afraid to let out the shaft holes a bit.  The top 'transfer shaft' holes.  You want it to spin easily. 

Using it takes no time to get the hang of.  I keep the serving thread between my thumb and index finger, and just a smidge behind the wrap.  It's pretty forgiving.  The Syren rope choices didn't match the kit's 0.80mm shroud line.  I used their 0.88mm rather than the 0.63.  I'll try one with the smaller rope.  Another 'complaint' is that the Coats & Clark mercerized cotton covered polyester thread is a bit fuzzy.  There is probably a better thread - this was from Her sewing box.

I will eventually get to a step where I can't seize with the machine.  Not looking forward to that (still no third arm no matter how hard I've tried).  I'm wondering if anyone has tried one of those fly-tieing devices to hand-seize?

Any way, we'll see how this goes.  I like the look!

 

- Tim

[hamilton]

Hi Tim:

 

Knowing very little about thread, I'm assuming there must be some very fine synthetic thread that has very little fray....I used upholstery thread for seizings on larger lines like shrouds and lower stays as well as for substituting kit-supplied .008" tan thread on finer lines. It's a little over scale, but it works alright - I have a meeting next week close by to the fabric/sewing supply store where I normally buy thread and sail cloth...I'll take a look to see if there's a decent product

hamilton

[GuntherMT]

So it looks like you are getting the hang of the machine, but I don't think you quite understand how the serving was done vs. the seizing.

 

The entire length of the shrouds that would possibly be in contact with a sail would be served, and that served rope wrapped around a dead-eye and then seized at the bottom, and at the top it would wrap around the mast and come down as the next shroud (the shrouds would be laid in pairs unless there are an odd number).  On the shrouds not in potential contact with a sail the serving would end a short distance below where it wraps around the mast.

 

The seizing above the dead-eye was not a solid 'serving' like you are showing it, rather two or three small seizings spread along the distance of the overlap.

 

Here are a couple of drawings showing the details of the seizings above the dead-eyes.

 

 

In the second drawing, the red arrow is pointing to the end of the lanyard, which is tied off to the shroud with a small seizing also.

 

The served shroud itself would be a dark color due to the fact that it is standing rigging and would tend to be tarred.  

 

Here are mine prior to adding the lanyards and cleats that tend to make it unclear where one seizing starts and another begins.

 

Note that I did not leave enough of a gap above the dead-eye for my lanyards to pass through later, so my lanyards are not properly rigged like are shown above in the 2nd drawing.  Also, you can see that the fore and aft shrouds are fully served (I should have served them all the way to the end wrapping around the dead-eye, but I screwed that up and chose not to re-do them), but the inner two shrouds are not served at all on the bottom, only at the top where they wrap the mast, as seen here (you can also see the single seizing to tie the 'loop' together after it wraps around the mast.  The serving for the middle two shrouds ends just below this photo.

 

The lanyards would not be tarred, as they had to be adjusted, so the lanyards and the seizing for the lanyard would be tan rope.  There are shroud cleats on the inside of all 4 shrouds, which is why there is so much seizing above the lanyard seizing here, as each cleat has three separate seizings holding them to the shroud right above the lanyard seizing.

 

 

Ultimately, you can do it however you think it will look the best, and if I'm completely misunderstanding what you are going for here, then I apologize, and can remove everything here to un-clutter your log any time you want.

 

Edit: Due to how more modern the America is vs. the reading I've done, all of this could be completely wrong too!  If so, let me know and I'll remove all of this.

 

Take care,

Edited May 13, 2016 by GuntherMT

[mojofilter]

Not a bit of it!  Extremely valuable information.  Please leave your post as-is.  I will incorporate the seizing method on my next try.

I will probably still go with the white serving to the halfway point, and then black all the way around the mast and back down to half way, etc.  since there are only two per mast (not counting the mainmast top), I will serve both the entire length.

I like the temporary deadeye positioners. mine are paper clip pieces.

Thanks,

 

- Tim

[EJ_L]

Brian,

You just clarified a bunch of my questions on seizing and serving. Those pictures really help see what needs to be done. Thank you for that excellent response! 

[GuntherMT]

After reading the other America log, I saw how the shrouds on the America were partially white, so I dug through my pictures of the replica in San Diego, and indeed the lower portion of the shrouds were (at one point anyway) white colored.  They are also attached quite a bit differently than the drawings and photo's I posted.

 

Unfortunately I don't have any super-clear photo's of the shrouds above the dead-eye, because it wasn't something that occurred to me to photograph in detail.  Here is about the best I found, but it clearly shows the white portion and being served, and you can also see that it's not secured using the seizing system, but rather appears to be eye-spliced and served back over completely, very similar to what you are already doing, except white all the way down to the dead-eye, but not around it.

 

[mojofilter]

Eye-spliced - interesting.  I guess that means the shroud lines are (natural, or nylon) rope of some kind.  I would have thought that the replica America would have steel wire rope - but then would you even need deadeyes?  One the other hand, the deadeyes are such a visual aspect of that period that you'd want to replicate them.  Thank you for the research!

 

- Tim

[GuntherMT]

I don't know that they are eye-splices, it's really impossible to tell from that picture and the fact that they are served over with the white section.

 

As far as dead-eyes, they would still be needed with steel, unless there was some other method of adjusting the shrouds, since even steel expands and contracts with weather, just not as much.  I suppose they could use turnbuckles or something, but the lanyards and dead-eyes are what they have.

[mojofilter]

So here is my latest attempt.  The aft shroud, top deadeye seizing is my attempt at the method that Brian shows.  There is actually three seizings, although hard to see due to black on black.  I'll re-do the single shroud (to the top mast) and proceed to the other side.

I hope to keep all the shrouds about the same (very low) tension in the paperclip retainers so that at the end of rigging, the lanyards will bring the deadeyes to the same spacing.  We'll see...

 

 

 

 

[mojofilter]

PS - the flowers are for my wife, who's afraid she is becoming a model ship widow.  Works for a little while ;-)

[hamilton]

So the picture Brian posted shows that the shrouds ARE served, at least on the modern replica.....your results show that this is a much better way of doing it on the model than painting the lines......you're making great progress Tim!

hamilton

[mojofilter]

Just finished the last of the shroud lines.  I had purchased 1ea. 20' piece of Syren's .88mm (.035") dark brown rigging rope (among other colors/sizes).  This really is superior to the kit's .80mm supplied rope.  The finish is much nicer - tighter - free of 'slubs'.  I don't have a good way of accurately measuring the diameter of the two but visual comparison shows them about the same size.

So one 20' piece was enough to do all 10 shrouds with several botched ones, and a couple of feet to spare.

 

The kit calls for the .80 rope, and then the serving, puts it probably about 3" dia. at scale - I'm sure this is 'overscale' but not too much, and I think it looks pretty good.

I'll get photos up when I get them temporarily installed.

 

- Tim

Edited May 19, 2016 by mojofilter

[GuntherMT]

Told you that you wouldn't regret replacing kit line with Syren rope.  It's awesome, and I'm glad you decided to try it and like the results.

[mojofilter]

I think I mentioned somewhere before that the supplied Britannia metal cheek blocks for the end of the main mast boom and the gaff were way too big - double sheaves and way too heavy.  I fashioned my own out of sterling silver (didn't have any brass, plus my wife is a silversmith) and turned a little sheave.  I used the supplied little brass nails.  I will file the heads of the nails to look like hex bolts but I'm afraid that only 9 year olds and people like me with magnifiers will notice...

 

 

 

[GuntherMT]

Great looking work on that!

[mojofilter]

Got a minute to update a little.

Still have to finish the gaffs.  The kit came without the Britannia-metal gaff jaws or a design for the clappers indicated on the Arthur Montgomery plans.  I shall fashion the jaws out of walnut.

The shroud lines are temporarily rigged to the deadeyes.  Per someone's good advice, I won't apply the lanyards until the rest of the rigging in on.  Here's a bunch of pictures:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next will be hanging the gaffs and the rest of the standing rigging.  The bowsprit, jib boom and the main boom worry me because they really stick out in harm's way.  I can be pretty ham-fisted . . .

I figure it's time to get her on a pedestal but haven't decided on what to use yet.  I'm pretty sure it won't be the 'cradle' that came with  the kit.

 

- Tim

Edited May 31, 2016 by mojofilter

[hamilton]

Looks really beautiful Tim! I love the finish on the copper plating.

hamilton

[EJ_L]

Great work Tim. She is really looking beautiful!

[mojofilter]

So it's been a little slow going on the standing rigging but some progress.

 

This is where she lives when not being worked on.  It is so dusty next to the mesa - that and the dog hair . . .

 

The gaff rigging:

 

 

 

 

My attempt at rope on a belaying pin

 

So no more procrastinating - on to the bowsprit.

 

Incidentally, I ordered an excellent book on America called the Low Black Schooner: Yacht America 1851 1945 by John Rousmaniere. (ISBN 0-939510-04-9).

Lots of history, really good drawings, paintings, and even some early photographs.

No wonder so many different model interpretations - she went through many changes between the Isle of Wight and the civil war.

 

I am still up in the air about sails.  At the very least I will add some of the running rigging.

Getting close now. 

Edited June 25, 2016 by mojofilter

[hamilton]

Hi Tim:

 

The rigging looks great! And your rope coil is very well done - any chance you'll give up your secrets?

 

I've not heard of that book, either - thanks for posting the details - I'm going to look it up right now. 

hamilton

[mojofilter]

For the coils, the rope was just soaked in 50/50 Elmer's and water.  Tried to get it as dry as possible with paper towels, then coiled on the pin.  Put plastic wrap on the deck underneath.  I've seen much better on this site.  Also they are unrealistically short - it would not cover the vertical rise of the gaff if brought down. 

The supplied rope is 24mm, 40mm, & 80mm, or so Mamoli says (no practical way to tell).  I got Syren rope but no direct size match.  I went with the next size up but really, it doesn't look like that much of a difference.  Probably because the Syren rope is much 'tighter' - less fuzz.  

[hamilton]

Thanks Tim! Very helpful. I know there are some tutorials on this forum for rope coils - but haven't looked in a while - always good to hear what different people do. I think you've done a great job with them

hamilton