sealing 1st planks to ready for 2nd planking??

[frankgoodman]

First planking done.  Good shape, sanded out well.  Minimum of Elmer wood filler.  Tried White glue "sealer".  Don't like.  When sponging off excess yellow glue from 2nd plank, white glue surface lifts/comes off.  Only tried on first plank of 2nd planking.  Removed plank, re-filled minor gouges. Sanding hull again to remove the White glue "sealer" coat. 

Looking through all comments/tips, can't seem to locate a good sealer tip.  Oil based like a matte poly?  Water based, like a matte finish poly?

Have some Z-Spar wood sealer left over from Furniture use.  Any good??  Have a Miniwax sealer product left over from another project. 

Concern is adherence of glue to Polys.  Any luck from anyone on this?

I realize the best answer is to try it on a test scrap, but looking for possible long term effects, re: long lasting glue hold.

Any comments will be appreciated.

Yes, I am a beginner to models, but experience in wood working. 

Thanks folks.  Frankg

[reklein]

I don't believe I'd seal the first planking. My concern is that it will prevent the glue on the finish planking from penetrating . Painted surfaces tend not to glue well because the paint keeps the glue from penetrating and you end up just relying on the paint or sealer in this case to hold your parts together. I WOULD recommend sealing before painting  to offer a smoother surface and to keep adjacent colors from flowing into each other as in the case of hull color and waterline.  Bill

[frankgoodman]

Thanks Bill.  Planned to seal final planks before staining hull (above water line), then a few coats of thinned poly.  Just worried about glue to wood filler.  The filler is really thin, almost transparent.  Just used to "fair" out a few spots. 

Frankg

[Chuck Seiler]

What kind of wood are you working with?

[frankgoodman]

First planks are lime wood.  Second planks are Manzonia. Decking will be Sapelly.  It is a Constructo Model.

Frankg, thanks.

[donrobinson]

I think your problem is that the glue "sealer" you put on was not thin enough. Glue does not rely on penetration for it's strength proof of this is on the side of the glue bottle (I use weldbond), if it is capable of gluing glass, ceramic, tile, marble etc. well none of these mediums allow penetration. Glue's strength comes from being glued to itself. That is why it says to coat both surfaces(which probably none of us do ) but is the correct way. Think of gluing two pieces of wood together on their end grains, lots of penetration no adhesion, if these were sealed first you would better luck with gluing.

 I am relatively new to this modelling also and I am currently on my fourth hull, my way is to always seal the first layer although I have never used the glue method you have I see no reason it shouldn't work if done properly(very thin). I'm sure there are many out there who don't seal their first planking and there is nothing wrong with that, this just the way I do it.

 These are just my opinions and by no way are they meant to insult anyone.

[EJ_L]

I am also new to wooden ship building, this being my second build, but I have not sealed my first planking and have not had any problems gluing the second planking to it. I do have some filler but it is minimal and after sanding the hull down I have not had any problems with glue adhering to either plank. I do not know about longevity of planks coming loose over time as the hull on my first build has only been complete for about two years.

 

I will agree with Don in that it is probably not the surface issue but instead either the type of glue or the application of it. I rarely glue sealed areas of wood to each other even in my regular wood work. I will sand off any sealer as I prefer to keep connecting wood surfaces raw. This is my preference as I have seen it go both ways to the same results so I do not believe there is a right or wrong just personal preference combined with the instructions on the glue being used. Application is important so you might double check the instructions on the bottle just to be certain. Sometimes it is a simple mistake that frustrates me for days till I stop and read.

[Jaager]

The only reason I can think of to seal the first layer of planking in the two layer system would be if it was being used as a mold and the intention is to pop the 2nd layer off after it is formed.  otherwise raw wood is optimal for the bond of the second layer.  Better results may be had using yellow PVA - like Titebond II ( or Titebond III if you are compulsive).  I read directions about a process to use yellow PVA as a contact adhesive by precoating and letting it dry - I forget what the step for bonding is and I can't find the reference.  With planking - it being a fit-adjust - fit-adjust process, I see no advantage in instant bonding anyway.

I am compulsive about coating both surfaces - but for planking excess glue squeeze out is not a helpful thing so just completely wetting both surfaces lightly is the goal.  For end grain to end grain - the bond will never be strong - but the way to get as strong a bond as possible would be to pre-wet both ends with the PVA - let it dry - and add more when gluing  up.  I made a miniature sponge stick glue applicator by gluing a round tooth pick to a small piece of foam packing. You can cut it just as wide as the plank and it will leave a just wet surface behind it.

[frankgoodman]

Thank you to all who replied.  Much to consider.  1st planking is edge glue together, sanded minimally, and is strong.  Will not compress with fingers.  Am sanding off glue coat, as I feel it was wrong stuff used.  Will not glue coat/seal 1st planks  Will use Titebond II for gluing 2nd planks.  Maybe with a dab of CA to start placement.  Hands a bit shakey, so CA helps start things.  Using 3ml syringe with a 20ga blunt point needle to apply glue.  Seems to work well. 

Have read and re-read most articles you folks have posted, plus have a couple of the books mentioned.  I guess it all comes down to level of comfort with the process at hand, plus real world gluing experiences during our lifetime of building/fixing(broken toys, etc.), cussing things together.

Thanks again to all.  Frankg  

[GuntherMT]

I would caution about using Titebond II instead of original Titebond as a PVA glue for this hobby.  Titebond II is water resistant, and Titebond original is not.  If you never intend to place your model into the water, I don't see the reason for using a water resistant (or even water proof - Titebond III) glue, as if you ever make a mistake and need to de-bond your work, the glue being water resistant means you have to use chemicals of some sort rather than just water to get the glue to soften and de-bond.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[frankgoodman]

Everybodies 2 cents is absolutely welcome.  It gives me much to think about, use test patches, try different methods, and just enjoy the trial and error of our hobby.  Not frustrated.  Been around the block many times in life.  Each trip was enjoyable/fun.  Will curse and mumble through this, and let y'all know how it turns out.  Have made lemonade out of lemons before.  Lots of sugar is the trick.

Thanks again to all replies.  If I can get the blog and camera working, will send pictures.

Frankg