Cutter Grace 1763

[tabycz]

My goal is to build British cutter Grace (1763 AD). So. I took plans from net (rmg) and I made 3D shape.

Several photos are here:

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by tabycz

[wrkempson]

Very nice.  Getting the right entry and run can be quite a challenge.  

 

Wayne

Edited January 5, 2018 by wrkempson

[tabycz]

I have a question about construction around top rudder bellow steering lever

You can see it on plan. Do anybody know what it is please? How it looks like?

Is it only iron strip holding top end of sternpost or any wooden case or anything else?

[iMustBeCrazy]

My guess is a wooden enclosure, covered aft of the rudder. Probably used for storage simply because it could be.

 

 

[michaelpsutton2]

Might it contain water coming up past the rudder coat? Assuming they had one. In any kind of a following sea with that overhanging transom you could likely store live halibut in there

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, michaelpsutton2 said:

Might it contain water coming up past the rudder coat?

I would assume that's it's primary purpose, but it seems overly large. If it was my ship that extra space would be used for something even if only for storing buckets.

 

 

[tabycz]

Has anybody any photo or drawing how it vám look please?

[druxey]

The triangular section would accommodate the swing of the tiller heel and contain any water that was forced pas the rudder coat below. The aft part (colored blue) I agree would be storage space with a hinged lid, perhaps. These spaces would be separated by a divider, unless you go for the fresh halibut theory!

[iMustBeCrazy]

4 hours ago, tabycz said:

Has anybody any photo or drawing how it vám look please?

Something like this maybe?

 

 

[tabycz]

@iMustBeCrazy: Thanks for it and your wilingness to help. I appreciate it. I haven't expressed in my previous question well. My mistake.

 

I asked for period (historic) example of construction --> photo of any solution on model, ilustration from book etc.

[iMustBeCrazy]

42 minutes ago, tabycz said:

I asked for period (historic) example of construction --> photo of any solution on model, ilustration from book etc.

I did understand what you wanted but I don't think you are going to find anything. I hope somebody will prove me wrong.

 

In all the cutter plans I have, the structure on the Grace is unique.

 

The Watchfull (ZAZ6466) and the Starling (ZAZ6479) have rectangular structures doing the same job but these are only shown on the deck plans so there is no height information.

 

The two models below have structures doing the same job but are very different.

 

 

[tabycz]

I hope somebody has something. ;o)

 

I have only ilustration of ruddle house on a French brig around 1806 from book The Global Schooner (KH Marquardt).

 

[druxey]

Craig: Your schematic sketch is about right. Open so that the tall rudderhead can pass through (which is unusual), but perhaps there is a rudder coat around to prevent water coming up or going down and a hinged lid on the aft part, like the one just above in post #12.

[bruce d]

On 8/18/2020 at 5:07 AM, tabycz said:

Do anybody know what it is please? How it looks like?

Found this.

 

This is a model in the NMM collections, item # SLR0416.

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66377.html

The description says...

"Scale: 1:48. Georgian full hull model, with elements of Navy board style, of a sixth rate 12 gun sloop (circa 1720). The open frames have been painted onto a carved pine carcass hull below the waterline. The model is predominantly in the Georgian style in that the decks are partially planked and includes a variety of fittings, such as a brass bell mounted on the raised folksal deck, a brick faced fire hearth below decks with a brass chimney, bilge pumps, capston and ships wheel mounted against the quarter deck bulk head. The hull is fitted ten oar ports between the gun ports and also includes detailed painted decoration on the scroll figurehead, bulwark screens and stern counter The model depicts accommodation and storage below deck as well as carved and painted decoration at the bow and stern. The model is mounted on a pine base on top of an ornate keel block and four turned feet below."

It is dated "circa 1720"

HTH

Bruce

[iMustBeCrazy]

11 hours ago, druxey said:

Open so that the tall rudderhead can pass through (which is unusual), but perhaps there is a rudder coat around to prevent water coming up or going down and a hinged lid on the aft part

Yes. That's the way I see it.

 

 

2 hours ago, bruce d said:

Found this.

Enlarged.

 

[druxey]

On a side note, can anyone identify the item forward of the tiller (photo above) that appears like a diagonal crest? Another oddity is the wheel almost against the bulkhead. How was it connected to the rudder? One would need to steer the wheel facing aft! Was this a later addition?

[bruce d]

Druxey, can't help with that item other than to say it looks like it may have been the footprint of something else that is now missing. 

Next up, and hopefully more helpful, is this one:

 

 

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66542.html

SLR0581
Description	Scale: 1:32. A contemporary full hull model of a merchant brig (circa 1795), built plank on solid wooden core in the Georgian style. Model is decked, equipped and fitted with three sliding keels as designed by Captain John Schanck. The model has a number of working parts including windlass, winches, doors, pump, and rudder, all of which aided the publicity of the sliding keels principal when Schank was trying to sell his idea to both the merchant and Royal navies. The idea worked on the principal that when the keels were lowered, it improved the vessels stability and sailing qualities. It also enabled the building of ships with a shallow draught allowing them to undertake passages in shallow waters or for survey work. At this scale, the model depicts a vessel measuring 72 feet along the deck by 19 feet in the beam and a tonnage of 100 burden. The modelmaking is of the highest quality and is though to be by the hand of Allen Hunt, a top quality craftsman whose patrons included the Duke of Northumberland and high ranking naval officers.
Date made	circa 1795

 

 

The small structure enclosing the tiller head addresses the general question and I am pretty sure the structures either side are pens/coops for chickens and whatever critters were carried. Considering the nature of these pens it is perfectly reasonable that they would not appear on plans.

[tabycz]

@bruce d: thanks for sending of photos and link. They are helpful!

 

[cotrecerf]

Hello tabycz,

yes, this box is a housing of the rudder head; imho I suggest a dual use in some cases: seat-of-ease for the captain, crew have to use channels. 

 

[cotrecerf]

Sorry,

forgot to show the link of Duke William plan: https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/86177.html