Venetian Round Ship c. 13th century by woodrat - FINISHED - 1:32 scale - fully framed

[woodrat]

As requested, some overall views showing deck furniture. All that is remaining is the log pumps. Still not sure whether to plank half the deck

 

The companionway to the aft accommodation. Ladder to be added.

Cheers

Dick

[Louie da fly]

Very nice (and very informative). Thanks, Dick.

 

Steven

[Louie da fly]

Not sure if I've shared this with you, and I know it's somewhat previous talking about masting and rigging when you haven't even finished the hull, but regarding the way the calcet is fixed to the mast, The Lomellina (sunk 1516) had one like this;

and another similar one was included in the archaeological report, thus:

I also realise this is several centuries different, but when it comes time to rig your own, this might be of help. I know in my own build I puzzled greatly over how the calcet could have been fixed to the mast without introducing nasty forces that would cause problems. This solution may have been in use for centuries, and is certainly the best I've seen as an answer to the problem.

 

Hope it helps,

 

Steven  

 

  

[yancovitch]

 super cool build..........super cool!!.........beyond me how you managed to get such detailed plans for that...................

Edited August 5, 2019 by yancovitch

[woodrat]

10 hours ago, yancovitch said:

beyond me how you managed to get such detailed plans for that

Thanks Yancovitch and everyone else for all the likes. The hull framing is directly taken from the comprehensive excavation of a wreck from the Po delta called the Contarina 1. the master frame is taken from a contemporary manuscript, the Libro di Navigar ( see earlier posts for details). As for deck framing, the deck machinery and hatches follow logically from the position of masts but are largely a matter of speculation, especially the knees. No claim is made for  this vessel to be anything but a product of my imagination.

 

Steven, thanks for the calcet details. This will be useful. I haven't thought about it yet but there is also the problem of the basket aft of the masthead and the Jacob's ladder to be considered. The Lomellina was a square rigged nave wasn't she? Perhaps this calcet can be adapted for latin rig.

Cheers

Dick 

[Louie da fly]

She was presumably square rigged (no contemporary pictures exist, and what remains of the masts and spars are not in situ), but I'm assuming the calcet was from the mizzen, which would have been lateen rigged. However, I'll have a look and see if the archaeological report mentions anything, particularly about where the calcet was found in relation to the rest of the ship.

 

Steven

Edited August 6, 2019 by Louie da fly

[Louie da fly]

Translated from French, the report of the 1987 dive states 

 

"Discovered at Q35, [see plan below]

 

 

close to double pulley A 167 and under the two wheels A66, this rigging piece is in the form of a case with a double pulley with two slots, associated with a sifflet (angled scarph) joint of semicircular section . . ."

 

"INTERPRETATION – HISTORICAL AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL REFERENCES (MG – ER)

This rigging piece has been identified by Rene BURLET, specialist in galleys and lateen rig.

It is a calcet which is fixed to the top of a mast of lateen rig. The two sheaves, often of bronze, serve for the passage of the double halyards of the antenne (lateen yard) (ref D No. 95/87) (page 43) . . . "

 

"The calcet has dimensions corresponding to a mast height of 12 to 15 metres, which could be a mizzen or Bonaventure mizzen."

 

So there you are. Yes it's from a lateen mast, and was found somewhat sternward of midships.

 

Though no pictures exist of the Lomellina herself, the late 15th century representation below flies the banner of the Lomellini family, and is probably of the previous Lomellina (the Lomellina I?) sunk in 1503.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

Fantastic stuff, well researched. Does this imply two upper halyard blocks or one upper halyard block with two halyards leading off it. Could it be that the double pulley A 167 is the upper halyard block? This is a large vessel. This is the mizzen lateen from my venetian carrack showing a calcet with a single sheave

Thanks, Steven, food for thought.

Dick

[Louie da fly]

Good question. The only statement that might be appropriate (excuse my translation, which might not catch the full intent of the original) is

 

"In the 17^th and 18^th centuries, the piece intended to avoid wear described here as a “comb” was called an eye (calcet with two eyes), the amans (ropes?) passing through holes and not as here in a groove. The groove at the top of the calcet was probably intended to take the strops of the auxiliary tackles (carnal and carnalette). "

 

What this means exactly, I really don't know, but the reference to the carnal and carnalette might be the answer to your question.

 

Perhaps Rene Burlet may be able to provide the answer, if you can find the right book. He has written a paper called "But how did they row the galleys of the Sun King (Louis XIV)" and a book called "Les galères au Musée de la Marine" (https://books.google.com.au/books/about/Les_galères_au_Musée_de_la_Marine.html?id=4ODlHStz_uMC&redir_esc=y ) analysing the models of galleys in that Museum. The site contains a link to a chapter entitled La galère à la voile (The galley under sail) which on a quick perusal seems to offer some clues.

 

It is all in French, but I've translated below the bits that appear relevant:

 

“The control of the yards, of which the weight is considerable, (a mestre [master?] yard, its largest sail and its manoeuvres easily amounting to 2.5 tonnes) is a delicate affair which requires  a series of precautions . . . the yard is supported by a strong tackle which we have already mentioned with its top-rope falls.  It is held to the mast by doubled cordage, the trusses equipped with parrels to slide the length of the mast when needed. These trusses are blocked by the angui tackle (??? - I've no idea what this means).”

“ . . . to close this brief enumeration, there are two tackles used for each mast, the canal and the carnalette. It should be noted that these could equally be used to hoist barrels of wine.”

 

I'm afraid that still doesn't answer your question, however. 

 

He goes on to say that because the size of a lateen sail can’t be adjusted (i.e. reefed) – it’s all or nothing - each galley carried three sets of sails of different sizes for different conditions.

 

Steven 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Louie da fly

[woodrat]

8 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

He goes on to say that because the size of a lateen sail can’t be adjusted (i.e. reefed) – it’s all or nothing - each galley carried three sets of sails of different sizes for different conditions.

This is what Michael of Rhodes said in the 15th century. They also could hook up a square sail for running if required.

M. Burlet I think is saying there are 2 ropes from the halyard block to the yard.

 

Looks like an interesting book. French is OK

Dick

[woodrat]

Here are the bilge pumps. These were made from single logs (hence their other name:  elm tree pumps) which are reamed along their length to accept a simple leather basket .

At this period (c 13) the pump was lifted by brute strength but later as in this picture of the Wasa bilge pump, a lever was fitted. Note how the log has been left au naturel and not chamfered as I have done

Cheerio

Dick

Edited August 18, 2019 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

On 8/7/2019 at 11:46 PM, woodrat said:

M. Burlet I think is saying there are 2 ropes from the halyard block to the yard.

You may be right, Dick. It's a little confusing, and I don't think M. Burlet was very specific with his explanation. Or perhaps it's just my rotten translation. By the way, in the passage above I think "top-rope falls" should be "top-rope downhauls".

 

Nice work on the pumps. Funny to see that the idea of pulling down on a lever with gravity on your side, instead of pulling up against gravity, hadn't yet come into use by this time. But it's confirmed by the 15th century Baltic wreck  mic-art posted recently.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

5 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

But it's confirmed by the 15th century Baltic wreck  mic-art posted recently.

 

Yes, fascinating.

Here are some snips of the pump:

Dick

 

[Louie da fly]

I've been meaning to look up double pulley A 167 from the Lomellina - here it is:

"Discovered next to calcet A 162, under the two wheels A 66, double pulley A 167 was found without sheaves, with a cord passing through one of the end holes.

 

It measures 65.6 cm long with a width of 17.2 cm and a thickness of 9.2 cm, and has two sheave-holes, 19.2 and 20.4 com high and 3.6 cm wide.

 

The presence of a hole at each end signifies that it is part of a two-fold tackle, taking two double pulleys; this tackle system is not normally encountered in the rigging of a ship, except for the mainyard lift.

 

It develops a very great force and could have been used to lift heavy weights (this type of tackle was also used for hoisting the boats.)

 

In any case, the absence of sheaves, as in the sep* and the calcet, could indicate that they had been temporarily unrigged."

 

*The sep de drisse is the fixed block in the main deck which takes the main halyard. 

 

Steven

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Louie da fly

[druxey]

That seems to be your answer, although I like the typically French comment;  "It should be noted that these could equally be used to hoist barrels of wine.”

[Louie da fly]

Funny, when I translated it, it came out as "hoisting boats". There is a word "manutention" in the text which can mean either victualling or handling (that would probably be the "barrels of wine"), but embarcation turns out to mean ships boats. (Who knew?)

 

Steven

[cog]

"manutention" is according to the Larousse:

Définitions

• Action de manipuler, de déplacer des marchandises en vue de l'emmagasinage, de l'expédition, de la vente ; local réservé à ces opérations.
• Vieux. Entrepôt de l'intendance militaire où était fabriqué, notamment, le pain pour la troupe.

or in English

• Action of manipulating, the displacement of merchandise with regards to storage, transport,  sales; set aside locally for these operations/actions
• Old use. Storage of the (militairy) quartermaster where, especially/specifically, the bread for the troops was made

I tend to favour Druxey's version, Steven, but that has largely to do with the wine barrels. Embarcations means not only ship's boats, but more generally crafts, or boats of small size (even canoes and such)

[Louie da fly]

Yes, I'm using an on-line French maritime dictionary that could certainly be described as vieux . . . Very useful, but perhaps out of date in some circumstances.

 

Steven

Edited August 21, 2019 by Louie da fly

[cog]

I tend to use Larousse to get the meaning of certain words/expressions and translate the parts which I am not certain about, but then, I do speak a little French ...

Edited August 21, 2019 by cog

[woodrat]

On 8/20/2019 at 4:51 PM, Louie da fly said:

The presence of a hole at each end signifies that it is part of a two-fold tackle, taking two double pulleys; this tackle system is not normally encountered in the rigging of a ship, except for the mainyard lift.

 

It develops a very great force and could have been used to lift heavy weights (this type of tackle was also used for hoisting the boats.)

This block could deal with the halyard.

Was there a diagram of the the sep de drisse?

Dick

[Louie da fly]

Dick, I'm sending you a message and attaching a couple of PDFs from the wreck reports - one on rigging and one with the sep de drisse (which is made of three parts, the lowest of which is emplanted on the keel like on a mast step). 

 

Trouble is, there's so much information in these reports I've never taken the time to look all the way through them. But in one of these attachments I've just come across a diagram from our old friend Michael of Rhodes being used as  source for the calcet.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

Thanks Steven. Beautiful drawings. The sep de drisse (lower halyard block) is in the position seen in carracks, that is behind the main mast and, as it is a large carrack, is vertically extended to the keel . I note that it has two pulleys as does mine. In my round ship, which is a relatively small vessel, I have elected for a more aft placement which is seen on contemporary iconography. As is the case in dhows of comparable size, fixation to deck framing should be enough.

Dick

Edited August 23, 2019 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

I agree, Dick. In fact I think I'll be using your inspiration (i.e. pinching your idea!) for the position and form of the lower halyard blocks for my own dromon.

 

The PDF on the gréement (rigging) of a carrack I found particularly interesting. I hadn't looked at this PDF before and I had no idea they'd recovered so many rigging elements or done all this reconstruction stuff on how they were arranged. Fascinating.

 

Steven  

 

 

[woodrat]

I have planked the starboard side of the main deck only. Waterways and scuppers to be put in next

Dick

 

 

[Louie da fly]

Beautiful work as always, Dick. The straight central section looks a little strange at first sight, but that's removable, for loading cargo, isn't it.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

On 9/8/2019 at 8:34 AM, Louie da fly said:

 The straight central section looks a little strange at first sight, but that's removable, for loading cargo, isn't it.

 

Steven

Yes both port and starboard bulwarks are removable in their mid section for loading cargo. This was discovered in the excavation of the Contarina 1 trading vessel. I believe, and this is just supposition on my part,  the bulwarks were slid up and then hung outboard on the protruding deck beams.

Incidentally, this would allow sweeps to be used on thole pins inserted in the deck. But there are no illustrations of round ships doing this.

Dick

[Louie da fly]

It's always worth following your builds, Dick. Such a wealth of research, and (very) convincing speculation on "how it must/may have been" when there's a gap in the available information.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

Thanks, Steven. Really enjoying your dromon.

I have had a marvellous time making a "thunderbox" for the comfort and convenience of the ship's gentlefolk. As for the crew............well... they can do it some other way, but downwind!

 

 

Its a lot like the one found on the Bremen cog

 

Here is a pic of the hull with the starboard bulwark removed for cargo access.

Dick

 

[woodrat]

The steersman's walk. This area is for the steersman or steersmen to stand while managing the tiller(s) of the quarter-rudder(s). Amidship there is an area for seating, below which is the sliding panel to allow instructions to given to the steersman from the after-cabin. Access to the after-cabin is via a scuttle behind the steersman's seat.

 

 

Dick

Edited September 22, 2019 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

A beautiful bit of detail work, Dick!

 

Steven