Chocks for futtocks

[allanyed]

For a British ship circa 1690s I believe there were likely chocks at the joints of the futtocks.   Drawings in The Restoration Warship by Richard Endsor, which is a thorough study of Lenox 1678,  shows chocks that are triangular in shape and rather small.   As I have learned, sharp corners were avoided as much as possible in ship building, thus it is possible that the chocks may have had shoulders.  I have been unable to find contemporary information or close to contemporary for the late 17th century that describes the shape of the chocks, be they triangular or with shoulders.   I would appreciate it if anyone can steer me to contemporary sources with details on these chocks.   A sketch below is what I am puzzling over.   In contrast to the use of chocks, Goodwin is clear by sketch and words that from 1650 to 1710, hook scarphs were used, not chocks.    His sketches of chocks beginning in 1710 do have shoulders.   Regardless of choice of chocks or scarphs, both can be argued to be correct based on these two sources, but I would love to find or hear about contemporary information as that would be the best way to make a decision.    Just to  throw another wrench into the mix, sketch C is of an actual  joint on the Swedish ship Carolus XI 1678. This is probably not applicable, but I thought it was interesting.    Allan

 

[druxey]

Interesting point, Allan. Those earlier illustrations do show pointy-end chocks (B), which I've always been suspicious of. They are inherently weak. However, perhaps the remains of an early wreck could confirm or refute this style of chock.

[allanyed]

Thanks!!  I do hope there are some photos or drawings to be found from wrecks of the late 17th century.  And the search goes on...… and on...… and on....😁

Allan

[Mark P]

Good Evening Allan;

 

Regarding wrecks, there are attempts being made to authorize the salvage and/or investigation of timbers from the Anne, burnt on the beach to avoid capture after being damaged by cannon fire in the Battle of Beachy Head in 1690. Similarly, the remains of the London, which blew up in the Thames Estuary, killing most of her crew and their families who were aboard, whilst anchored at The Nore in 1665. Apparently, a very well-preserved gun carriage was recently recovered from near the latter ship. Something to look into!

 

All the best,

 

Mark

[Bob Cleek]

7 hours ago, allanyed said:

Thanks!!  I do hope there are some photos or drawings to be found from wrecks of the late 17th century.  And the search goes on...… and on...… and on....😁

Allan

Try searching https://www.academia.edu/ for marine archaeological papers, surveys, and reports on wrecks of the late 17th century. If there's anything like what you are looking for, it's probably in there.

[Alex M]

I was relatively sure that choks are first used after introduction of double/single frame system after around 1710. Before them floors and futtoks are just overlapped.

 

does you known this thesis?

https://nautarch.tamu.edu/Theses/abstracts/batchvarov.html

Regards

Alex

Edited November 28, 2019 by Alex M

[Jaager]

Allan,

I have a bias and a reason for the omission , but unless this is for a cross section model, what is the reason for modeling butt chocks?  With a full hull model, their presence would be all but invisible.

In any case, they seem to be a critter pretty much limited to British construction.  The same with singleton filler frames, also being almost exclusively British.  I understand why they did it.  They had more skilled labor than they had wood of the desired dimensions and an all but bottomless demand for the wood.

 

[allanyed]

Bob and Alex,

I have gone to Batchvarov's thesis a number of times over the past few years and I thank you for bringing it up as it is a great source.   He describes the use of chocks that cross the keel as well as chocks where the futtocks join in Chapter 3 of his thesis, Framing of Ships in the Second half of the 17th Century including a sketch showing shouldered chocks on page 51.  He has several charts showing a number of vessels with information from contemporary sources, including contracts, that indicate the use of scarphs on some and chocks on others.   I have just recently emailed Karoum to discuss this very topic but no luck so far in getting a response.

 

Jaager, I appreciate your response and sentiment.  I have not really researched ships of other nations on this project but in sketch C in my earlier post it shows a chocked joint found on a Swedish ship wreck frame.  I have no idea on their use in other nations.  Whether they show on the model or not, they do add strength to the framing and for me, these details are part of the fun in construction.  I would not encourage nor discourage the use of such details to others, it's just my own personal preference to include many details even knowing no one will ever see them or that they would even care if they did 😆

 

Allan

Edited November 30, 2019 by allanyed

[wefalck]

My knowledge of shipbuilding practice in the 17th Century is close to nil. However, looking at sketch B above, it appears to be that a simple triangular chock would be forced inwards on any bending movement of the futtocks. This would constitute an inherent contructional weakness. When the chocks have shoulder, the bending movement of the futtocks would compress the chocks on the shoulders. Similarly, that sort of scarph in sketch C would lock the two parts of the futtocks together, thus reducing somewhat the squeezing-out effect on the chock. Mechanically, the solution C seems to be even better than A, as the outsides of the futtocks are locked together.