US Brig Syren by Redshadowrider - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - First wooden ship build

[Overworked724]

Howdy, Red.  I can't say for sure what @WalrusGuy used.  But as for me, in my build log I show the rotary tool I use which allows a closer approach to tight areas.  I used a simple Dremel drum sander (big drum as well as narrow) to 'rough' crop the sills but still allowed them to be proud (wider) than the stanchions.  Since you need to add the 1/4" sections to make your gun a sweep ports, the sanding regime never seems to stop.  But I used a drum sander on my rotary for the exterior as you mention.  Than hand sanded with finer grits for finishing up the exterior with sanding sticks/pads/etc. (I made a bunch of sanding implements for hand sanding).  The interior I rough sanded with the dremel and folded section of 120 grit rotary sanding paper with the self adhesive back.  I describe this is my blog as well.  I'm finishing up the interior bulkhead sanding as I write this and I'll show some pics on what I used in a future post.

 

It's such a bothersome chore...I bet folks simply don't like writing about it!  😃 

[WalrusGuy]

30 minutes ago, Overworked724 said:

It's such a bothersome chore...I bet folks simply don't like writing about it!  😃 

This was basically it hahaha

 

I just roughly sanded the majority of the material off with the dremel tool, and finished off by hand using small bits of sandpaper. It wasn't very fun since the entire structure kept getting weaker so had to use less and less pressure. This made the entire process seem like an eternity...

 

Once the outer hull was planked i could finish up sanding the inside with a bit more pressure since everything was held firmly with the planks. Sanding is probably the least fun part but its got to be done... 

[Redshadowrider]

Thanks guys, I was hoping for a super secret way of doing the deck side sanding. 😁  Since I have looked at Walrus’s log, I will look at yours Overworked.  Both sound pretty much what I thought it would be.  I think I will be building some new sanding sticks.  
 

Update:  Just looked through your log Overworked.  I am off to find an engraver....  👍

[Overworked724]

1 hour ago, Redshadowrider said:

Update:  Just looked through your log Overworked.  I am off to find an engraver....  👍

Got 2 of those suckers. I absolutely love mine. You might want to ensure you have a good collet collection. The rotary I use accepts the Dremel collets so it makes it easy to adapt. 

[Redshadowrider]

Status Update:   Sanding........

[Overworked724]

I feel your pain!  😳 I’m still coughing up sawdust. 😜

[Redshadowrider]

You would think that I would be used to it with my other hobby.  However, I am allergic to balsa dust....go figure.  😁

[Redshadowrider]

The Sanding Phase:  ...or phases...  😄

 

After sanding the gunport sills on the starboard, it became obvious that I needed more than just one or two sanding sticks.  So I ordered paint stirring sticks, emory board sanding stick types, and Dremel barrel sanding bits.  I am still looking for Dremel sanding disks for the hard to get places, but I have a pretty good start.  I have yet to sand the deck side of the sills, but that will be when I get both sills and tops in place.  Starting on the gunport tops now.. 15/32" opening.

 

[Justin P.]

Nice progress.   I think much depends on your sandpaper choice as well.   I found that gator sandpaper to be noticeably more efficient than the standard brands in working with the ply and other weird grains.   Also, I found the rotary tools harder and less precise, which could be my own fault.   I took a 1/2 x 1/2" square dowel and cut it down to 3" long and then ground a square float plane landing float shape into it (Im also an RC pilot).   This provided a square, but also non-catch shape to fair the inner bulkheads.   Using the gator paper, this process did not take long at all.   

 

Also, the gunport sills seem to be running a bit squirrely, I might consider lining these up a bit better as this will become quite apparent when you eventually get your gunports planked in...   they should have an even sweep and be level.  I found that cutting out a 5/16" jig helped a lot to get the gunports sills and lintel spacing consistent and square. The ends of each of those pieces should be meeting up and following the same line. 

 

Looking forward to following along. 

[Redshadowrider]

I know what you say about the squirrely. Sills.  I see it, but when I measure it, they are right on the laser marks, and level in side to out.  Add to that, my eyesight using +1 readers or my jewelers visor, I am not sure what is needed.  Even the initial plank that I put up temporarily was right on the mark.

 

I am using a wide angle lens that may be adding to it.

[Justin P.]

7 minutes ago, Redshadowrider said:

I am using a wide angle lens that may be adding to it.

Indeed.   I actually thought it was probably the camera exacerbating it, but thought might as well point it out.   I think as long as those sills are level then you'll be fine.   The ones that would worry me are those towards the stern which "appear" to have a downward angle toward midships.  The laser marks are only guides, and really only useful if all else is aligned properly.   I tend to go with a mixture of plans, guides and "reckoning."   That is too say, if it looks right it likely is or vice/versa.   As I don't have the laser accuracy as some of our more seasoned peers do, I rely pretty heavily on look as opposed to plan precision.   I appreciate how much Chuck put into his instructions, but for me some of it just doesn't translate well to my personal ability or workflow and I end up deviating often (usually meeting the intended result one way or the other 🙂)

[Redshadowrider]

Still, I still have the opportunity to recheck it again.  I do think that some sills are angled especially near the stern and bow.  If I understand it correctly, it is because the carronades run parallel to the deck.  This means they are not level forward/aft, only port to starboard because of the angle of the deck.  However, I will check it all now rather than later.    
 

I think I am going to try and level a couple of the sills somehow.  On one, I think sanding will work.  On another, I might add a shim across the top and sand clean.  I don’t think that I need to remove them.  I have the top row on now, and will add a picture.  I used a block that is 15/32” high that should have carried any error to the top making it easier to tell.

[Redshadowrider]

Thanks to Justin,

Even though I used a wide angle lens for the photo, I agreed with Justin that something was off in the gun sills (starboard).  They just didn't look like a smooth transition between ports.  So I went back and researched them, found a few that were off, and fixed them by removing the original sill and replacing them.  Not too many, 4 or 5, and not very much.  However, when you multiplied the small errors across the hull, they created other issues.  Here are the results of repair/replacement with the wide angle lens, and the top sills in place, it is much smoother.   I might do the bow port, but am not sure if it is that far off.

 

 

 

[Justin P.]

Looks great, and am glad to help even if it wasnt asked for!   Looks like a much smoother run bow to stern.    It is amazing how much more rigid the thing becomes as you build in these components.   Its during these steps that I found a decent sharp finger plane became very useful for removing the extra material created by the additional wood.   Much more accurate (and pleasant) than using sandpaper. 

[Redshadowrider]

Honestly, I haven’t used a plane in years don’t plane balsa much. 🙂   I have regular size that I have had for over 30 years and can’t remember the last time I took it out of its cloth protector.  I will look at them though.

[Redshadowrider]

Another Problem Solved: Temporarily

 

As I began sanding the gunport sills, it became evident that the hull, while solidly clamped at the keel, is very wobbly due to lack of support.  I needed to clamp down the upper hull so that sanding was done on a solid surface.  You can see the bow clamped in the picture...  a small C clamp attached to the bulkhead former and tightened, then a squeeze grip bar clamp is placed under the rotating top.  On the stern, the base clamp was too far from the edge to reach, so I attached the C clamp and ran heavy string through, and a pop-sickle stick was used as a tourniquet to tighten around the C clamp holding it into position.  (Feel free to patent this if you like.......   😀

 

Here is a picture with the new port "sills" and a little of the tops sanded.  The sills are smooth across the outside with some of the tops close to being finished.  Should be able to move to the port side after a lifetime of sanding.  

[Redshadowrider]

Construction Question:  

Once that I added the lintels, it became noticeable that the bulkhead stanchions, first 3 at the bow, and last 3 at the stern extend above the top of the stanchions.  I have a couple that do not extend past the top of the lintels.  I looked through the instruction manual and pics and it doesn’t show if they are used even after the cap rail is added.  Is there any issue with one or two not being longer?

[Justin P.]

2 hours ago, Redshadowrider said:

Feel free to patent this if you like.......

Someone might, dont give away all your secrets!  ha.    Seriously though, consider a keel clamp from Amati.   While the single point of position you have now is useful, you will need more angles and options for clamping as you go.   This has been one of my best investments and provides hundreds of useful and strong positions.   Also, consider gluing a rail along the deck, and then flip and clamp to that to give another angle in your own setup.    You can remove this later prior to planking the deck.  

[Justin P.]

19 minutes ago, Redshadowrider said:

Construction Question:  

Once that I added the lintels, it became noticeable that the bulkhead stanchions, first 3 at the bow, and last 3 at the stern extend above the top of the stanchions.  I have a couple that do not extend past the top of the lintels.  I looked through the instruction manual and pics and it doesn’t show if they are used even after the cap rail is added.  Is there any issue with one or two not being longer?

I assume the ones that do not extend are amidships?  That was how mine is, and I think it is more or less intended this way.   I'm not quite to the caprail step, but my assumption is that it will all come together just fine.   I wouldn't worry about it, more important that your gun ports are correct and  consistent dimensions.  By your picture, everything looks correct.   I've only just added the outer wales today, and in the below pic you can see that mine protrude at the bow and stern (click to enlarge).  

 

 

[Overworked724]

Love my keel clamp.  I actually attached it to a rectangular base of 3/4" plywood.  It's as solid as a rock...and I can move the entire assembly with ship attached with confidence rather than leave it clamped on the edge of the desk.  Great investment.

[Redshadowrider]

I am pretty sure I will move to the Amati clamp.  I am trying to keep my investment to the minimum for now.  $85 for the clamp is just not on the top of the budget yet, but it will get there.  I went through the Ship Modeling tools on Micro Mark, and settled on the sanding tool, and I have added chisels, diamond files, and sanding supplies.  The Admiral will accept things pretty openly, but I know the boundaries. 😉

[Justin P.]

1 hour ago, Overworked724 said:

Love my keel clamp.  I actually attached it to a rectangular base of 3/4" plywood.  It's as solid as a rock...and I can move the entire assembly with ship attached with confidence rather than leave it clamped on the edge of the desk.  Great investment.

I did this with mine for a different build as well.   It was really solid, I had intended to remount it to the board but then I just got busy working and haven’t moved the model since.  Cutting the board larger than the model itself also provides a kind of barrier from things coming into contact accidentally.

[Overworked724]

1 hour ago, Justin P. said:

I did this with mine for a different build as well.   It was really solid, I had intended to remount it to the board but then I just got busy working and haven’t moved the model since.  Cutting the board larger than the model itself also provides a kind of barrier from things coming into contact accidentally.

 

Exactly!  I still go back and forth between my building board and keel clamp...its good to have options.  

[Redshadowrider]

Sand, Sand, Sand.....  Sand some more.  😀

 

I have done most of the sanding on the tops and sills of the gun ports, but still have finish sanding to go.  I have rechecked the 15/32" spacing and all ports are right on.  I am using the little T shaped tool to measure each port left and right sides.  It makes it easier to check when there is a handle on it...LOL

 

Next is on to the port side......and then?   Well you know sand, sand, sand...

[Redshadowrider]

War is hell!...................but sanding is bring up a very close second place.  😄   

 

Here is  a couple of pictures of the gun sills and lintels in place.....  and sanded.  I still have a very minor amount left on the deck side of the sills.  Lintels are pretty much done, and depending on how close I have to have the sills sanded to the bulwark bottom.  I fitted in the first inside bulwark plank and it looks like I might have sanded close enough.  (I bet I'll go back and sand some more....)  

 

Newbie note:  When the instructions say to sand the gunport sills then add the lintels, don't save them until you do both.  The problem I ran into, although not a big deal, is that when you are sanding the back side of the sills, it is very easy to knock off a top rail.  ...or so I have read.  😉

 

I did find a way to sand the backside on the straightest part of the hull.  At the bottom of the picture, I took some modeling sanding sticks and put a duct tape handle on them.  I was able to sand from bow to stern on the long run of sills behind.  You can patent this one too... LOL  I was surprised it worked.

 

On to GREEN:  Gunport sides,  oh yeah..... more sanding.  

 

 

[Overworked724]

Ok...interesting use of duct tape on the sanding sticks! 👍🏽 That’s a keeper idea for future!

[Redshadowrider]

Yeah, once the lintels are in, the width of the bar hits them.  So when trying to sand along the back, it is just flexible enough to sit in the curve, but you need the duct tape for 2 things.  One, it provides a handle to hold on to.  And...Two, it protects the lintels from additional sanding.

[Redshadowrider]

Question:  I have finished adding the gun port frames except for Bridle Ports, and cutting out and moving bulkhead 24.  I know the instructions indicate to use a "jig saw" blade and cut just above the sills to allow for sanding.  I have lived enough places in this country to know that the term "jig saw" can mean the blade of what I call a saber saw, or it can mean jig saw can mean a "scroll saw" blade.  😉   

 

So my question is what others have used?  I am avoiding the Dremel cutoff wheel because it an jump at the most inopportune time.  I have razor saws, but they have a rib across the back to keep the blade from bending and it makes a 90 degree cut a pain.

 

Sorry, no pics today, I will add more when I have the gun ports in, and the hull sanded inside and out.  

[Overworked724]

Oh wow...no. Do not use a powered Jig Saw!!!  😊

 

There are fine toothed saw blades which you can get from MicroMark and other sites which you can clamp into an exacto blade handle. Removing these sections is actually very easy if you have the smaller blades. Then finish off with fine sanding. At least that’s how I approached it. 👍🏽

https://www.micromark.com/Saw-Blade-010x40-TPI-Package-of-4

[Redshadowrider]

Hahaha.....Sorry, I was referring to using the blade by hand only.  Of course, I have a circular saw that would make quick work of it.  🤪  I will get some of the micro mark blades.